There is definitely something wrong with 250 in Phoenix, I've spent whole day flying my real 250 and I am 100% sure it's not simulated properly in Phoenix at slow speeds.

Adding ridiculous amount of expo to the model (just the model, not tx or global Phoenix controls), around 30-40%, seems to make it more real.

Oddly enough I use around 20% expo on real one.. I've also found that flips on sim are really easy comparing to real.. too much power on the sim - that would explain a lot of things?
I've got an Outrage 550 variant edited by someone who has got a real Outrage and from now I am going to use this one. I've managed to do a couple of nose in funnels!

Originally Posted by Alsbike

CaptJac, Just starting out I purchased a T-Rex 700N converted to electric and of course a Phoenix RC 2.5 flight Sim.

WOW - Santa was good to you!! Welcome aboard the heli world. I'll add you to my Skype contact list - go ahead and install the Phoenix Beta version (3.0x) from their website and drop a line in my message box when you ready to spool-up. We are snowed in here - so I won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

captJac

Originally Posted by AcidDrink

There is definitely something wrong with 250 in Phoenix, I've spent whole day flying my real 250 and I am 100% sure it's not simulated properly in Phoenix at slow speeds.

Did Phoenix support respond to your email yet?

Originally Posted by CaptJac

Did Phoenix support respond to your email yet?

No, I'll give it time till after New Year. People need a break, especially in software industry (I know something about it)

Here is a video to demonstrate my point. Don't try it on real heli.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZOSJz8MX7s

From my experiences (I make games for living), it looks like huge control lag/not enough resolution on the controls. I am using no expo anywhere.

I just got response from nice people at Phoenix. The advised to change frontal/lateral cyclic to 0.3 under flybar and that did help (I put it on 0.25, 0.3 was too much). Turning off VSync helped a lot with that underwater feeling as well.

Originally Posted by AcidDrink

I just got response from nice people at Phoenix. The advised to change frontal/lateral cyclic to 0.3 under flybar and that did help (I put it on 0.25, 0.3 was too much). Turning off VSync helped a lot with that underwater feeling as well.

Sounds like they dug into the problem and came up with a solution. Not surprised - they are good at that. BTW - excellent video quality in your example - are you using FRAPS?

Originally Posted by CaptJac

Sounds like they dug into the problem and came up with a solution. Not surprised - they are good at that. BTW - excellent video quality in your example - are you using FRAPS?

Well it is much better now, although I am still quite fussy, hehe..

Yes, Fraps, record your flight, then fraps it

Well I had my first real lesson with Captjac yesterday and all I can say is WOW!

First, Captjac really knows his stuff. I spent a lot of time on the net looking for info on setting up and using Phoenix, the info available doesn't hold a candle to Captjac's knowledge and experience. This alone should be enough to start taking lessons with him.
His experience as a teacher really shows - he makes you feel relaxed and has a great sense of humor - all positive attributes for an excellent teacher.
I tried to list a few pros and cons as to using Phoenix Flight Sim and Captjac's training.
Cons:
Pride - you think you know it all or you think you can learn on your own.
Cost($) - you have very deep pockets and can afford to constantly be replacing parts.
Cost(time) - you love to rebuild your heli more than flying, like to take a long time to master flying helis.
Frustration - You love and thrive in a frustrating environment - and are willing to quit!

Pros:
Cost($) - Getting Phoenix will far out weigh the cost of repairs.
Cost(time) - you will be flying your heli of choice quickly! Just the time to properly setup your heli and Tx are worth spending time with Captjac.
Cost(Experience) - I have no idea how folks before us had learned to fly without a simulator. Pure trial and error is nothing more than pure and simple frustration!

My Experience:
After my first lesson Captjac had my heli and Tx tuned perfectly.
I learned how to properly lift off and land using a Trex 500 and DX7. (I just finished building a Tarot 500 but won't try flying it until I get a few more lessons under my belt)
And to top it off I was doing figure 8's - Incredible! - something I thought I wouldn't be doing for a long time!
This may sound like an advertisement for Phoenix and Captjac - it isn't, I have absolutely no affiliation with either party. This is my own personal experience.
So if you're sitting on the fence about taking the plunge into a flight sim and training don't hesitate, go get Phoenix and lessons with Captjac and enjoy yourself - you'll have a blast!

Originally Posted by AcidDrink

Here is a video to demonstrate my point. Don't try it on real heli.

Actually I do that all the time to test what performance level I'm getting. It does look like a little control lag - if I can visually see it, it must be pretty long.

I do not think it's worthwhile to try to get the simulator helis to fly like the real ones. You need to learn to fly helicopters in spite of their differences in performance. As long as the simulator is simulating realistic helicopter behavior, it will be beneficial as a training tool, regardless of how it compares to your real helis in terms of performance. In this case, I think the 250 is so far off, it's crossed the line into unrealistic land.

Originally Posted by jasmine2501

Actually I do that all the time to test what performance level I'm getting. It does look like a little control lag - if I can visually see it, it must be pretty long.

I do not think it's worthwhile to try to get the simulator helis to fly like the real ones. You need to learn to fly helicopters in spite of their differences in performance. As long as the simulator is simulating realistic helicopter behavior, it will be beneficial as a training tool, regardless of how it compares to your real helis in terms of performance. In this case, I think the 250 is so far off, it's crossed the line into unrealistic land.

I totally agree with all you said. (and actually I do the same on real heli just to check my settings etc.. , but only in place, not in froward flight/drift and a bit less stick movement ).

Try to turn Vsync off and see if you can feel a difference. I do (maybe placebo effect, but I still do)

With Vsync on, you're getting about 60 frames per second - this affects the physics. For each frame, the entire physics model is calculated. If the time between frames is large, then the calculations are less precise. However, if the time between frames is too small, you approach the precision limits of the machine, and again you can see errors. So yes, turning on and off the Vsync makes a physics difference. However, Phoenix should be happy with frame rates of 30 to 60 per second. Possibly with the Vsync off, you're getting such a high frame rate that it's working with very small numbers and calculations are failing due to zeros popping up internally.

Originally Posted by jer291113

Well I had my first real lesson with Captjac yesterday and all I can say is WOW! First, Captjac really knows his stuff. I spent a lot of time on the net looking for info on setting up and using Phoenix, the info available doesn't hold a candle to Captjac's knowledge and experience. This alone should be enough to start taking lessons with him. His experience as a teacher really shows - he makes you feel relaxed and has a great sense of humor - all positive attributes for an excellent teacher. My Experience: After my first lesson Captjac had my heli and Tx tuned perfectly. I learned how to properly lift off and land using a Trex 500 and DX7. (I just finished building a Tarot 500 but won't try flying it until I get a few more lessons under my belt) And to top it off I was doing figure 8's - Incredible! Something I thought I wouldn't be doing for a long time! This may sound like an advertisement for Phoenix and Captjac - it isn't, I have absolutely no affiliation with either party. This is my own personal experience. So if you're sitting on the fence about taking the plunge into a flight sim and training don't hesitate, go get Phoenix and lessons with Captjac and enjoy yourself - you'll have a blast!

Going to put you on my marketing team IMMEDIATELY!! Whenever I'm feeling a little down and grounded I go back and read some of the comments that have been written here. It's like applying 15 degrees positive pitch on my rotors and I'm instantly soaring 500 feet. I really appreciate all the kind words and encouragement from everybody. Thank you for your support and trust and allowing me to help you with your training over this year. It has been wonderfully fulfilling and rewarding and great learning experience and truly a privilege. What can I say other than thank you and HAPPY NEW YEAR !!

-----------------------------------------------Keep those rotors spinning

captJac

I have phoenix 3.0 installed and have been practicing hovering with my DX7.
My question is does it matter that I have the model set up as acro (plane). I use these settings for my blade, mcx2,cx2,msr and sr 120 and do fine. I am trying to move into CP heli's. I have Walkera V400D02 in 2 attempts to hover the heli takes off on me resulting in a crash. ( 1st one broke off the tail motor holder, 2nd busted blades, stripped main gear, ball links broke etc.).
I know I need more sim time but should I be setting up my radio in heli mode?

Mike

No, as long as the simulator understands your input, it's fine. You will need to learn helicopter setup for the real ones of course, but Phoenix uses a different setup.

After a toy heli Christmas present for my son sparked an R/C shopping spree, I'd like to take advantage of these lessons too.