Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Nov 18, 2010, 03:14 PM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
CaptJac,
I just got back into flying again after a 20 years break. I only flew planes and did some pattern comp back in the early 90's. Now, because of my son, I'm back into flying my Parkmaster 3D and my helis so I can train him also. I have an mSR, a 120 SR, a Walkera UFLS a 4G6S CP and 1#A CP so far.

I've been practicing with Phoenix for the last month but feel I still need to go over the basics with someone. It would be nice if you could take a look at how I fly and see if I'm missing something.

I do alright with most stuff but I have a problem with basic CW and CCW circles. In particular slow controlled circles catch me out towards the end. I either lose forward speed or bank too much or lose rudder coordination.

So let me know if you can help.
Thanks!
kutyafal is offline Find More Posts by kutyafal
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Nov 18, 2010, 03:28 PM
Rotor Controller
CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
1,942 Posts
Very glad to look over your shoulder and offer a few suggestions - drop a note in my message box with your Skype name and what part of the world you are in so we can coordinate a time.

captJac
CaptJac is offline Find More Posts by CaptJac
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 27, 2010, 03:04 AM
Rotor Controller
CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
1,942 Posts
I'm tough to teach - but thankfully my students have a lot patience and keep working me until I get it right. I was always under the impression that over-control was the biggest problem. I'm starting to realize that's 2nd in line. Timing is the critical key. You can prove it to yourself.

Don't try this at home - without a simulator
!!
While in a hover - move the elevator stick forward and back until your heli is rocking like a horse. Notice the better your timing gets the easier it is to maintain a stationary hover. Same thing holds true for the aileron. You can rock it left and right until the rotors are almost hitting the ground and still maintain a stationary hover. Over control? Indeed. But that heli will stay rock solid if your timing is good.

Last note - Phoenix has a beta version out now - 3.0x - which can be downloaded from their site. They are updating and fine tuning it practically every week. While I don't see any major difference in the physics (don't fix it if it ain't broke) - the setup is considerably simplified for those who were overwhelmed with all the settings. That was one of the things I was able to help students with the most. I may be out of a job!! Anybody looking for an instructor? I work for food ..
CaptJac is offline Find More Posts by CaptJac
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by CaptJac; Nov 27, 2010 at 04:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 27, 2010, 04:02 AM
smoking crack is cheaper
VooDuuChild's Avatar
North of Seattle
Joined Nov 2009
137 Posts
I gotta question for ya CaptJac. When doing the initial calibration for my DX6i, both sticks showed full movement, but when it asked me to flip the two switches, it didn't register anything. Are the bars supposed to move up and down like they do when the sticks are moved?

As soon as I get a chance to get my laptop over to my friends house who has high speed internet, I'll get skype setup and make my 1st appt. Only one problem. For some reason, even though my computer meets the basic needs of the sim, it slows down after a while and I have to restart my computer as the game starts lagging and juttering. I could probably borrow my girlfriends sisters sweet-ass new laptop, but don't know if I could still use both of them, or will it only update to one pc? Anyhow, got a real good deal on some headgear for skype off Amazon on sale, like sixteen bucks delivered; I think they're called yapster. It's pretty funny, I feel like TC from Magnum PI with these big-ol things on with the mouthpiece and all, haha.
VooDuuChild is offline Find More Posts by VooDuuChild
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 27, 2010, 04:47 AM
Rotor Controller
CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
1,942 Posts
Hi Vooduu - the throttle-hold switch should effect your throttle channel and the gyro switch should effect Ch-5. Check your "mapping" on the control setup menu. We'll walk through through the setup on your 1st session. Recommend your girl friend's sister's computer - you will need a pretty fast computer for the multi-player mode.

captJac
CaptJac is offline Find More Posts by CaptJac
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2010, 10:48 AM
Sdk
Registered User
Kozani Greece
Joined Dec 2010
1 Posts
Hi Mr Jack
If I undestood well you could help me training with Phoenix...Ok. I have this simulator installed on my PC...With my real helis (Sceadu evolution 50, TREX500, HK450...) I can only hover and I am close to make the stall turn...
I don't practice very much with the simulator...after some time I get bored with this...
What is your advise?

Thanks in advance
Savvas

PS
I've also sent you an invitation on Skype
Sdk is offline Find More Posts by Sdk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2010, 11:34 AM
Rotor Controller
CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
1,942 Posts
Hi Savvas - the simulator is borrrring in comparison to being out in the field and flying - heck almost everything is boring compared to that. But the boring does have its advantages - especially when you learning - and even more especially when you crash. Very glad to set up a time with you and look over your shoulders and see if we can un-bore you with some training exercises. Let me know how your schedule looks - I'm free tomorrow night (Sunday) if you get this in time. I'll add you to my Skype contact list - give me a call if you see me on.

captJac - Mr. Jack - Jack
call me anything - just don't call me late for dinner


... I have 2 helicopters - I call them ONE and TWO. When one ONE breaks - I still have TWO left !!
CaptJac is offline Find More Posts by CaptJac
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by CaptJac; Dec 26, 2010 at 06:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2010, 11:38 AM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdk View Post
I don't practice very much with the simulator...after some time I get bored with this...
What is your advise?
Stop if you're bored - go do something else. 15 minutes every day is enough practice, if it is focused. Your brain actually stops learning anything new after about that amount of time, and you need to take a break. This gives your unconscious mind some time to reflect on what you have learned - it takes time for those new connections to actually grow in your brain, and it's important to give your brain time to do that - but immediate activities take priority, so if you continue playing then your brain focuses on that, and forgets about the stuff you did at the beginning of the practice session, when you were actually learning something.

In order to make the simulator practice more challenging, you can do drills. I have been flying for years and I still do this. Pick a move, and practice it for a set amount of time - 4-5 minutes. See if you can get better before the time runs out. For beginners I recommend some pretty boring drills - hovering in each position for 30 seconds (use a timer, it's a long time). Edit your airport and put 4 cones in a 50-yard square - fly to each cone and stop for ten seconds - you can fly around the square in both directions, can fly it backwards, inverted, can do piros or other stunts at each corner, can fly a star pattern instead of the box - the box should keep you busy for weeks.

A practice session should then be:
1-2 minute of warm-up - get your bearings, do some hovers and crash a little
4-5 minutes of a specific drill - like the box or the hovering
4-5 minutes of another specific drill - make it sufficiently different
4-5 minutes of noodling around - fly how you want, push yourself.
THEN STOP - go get a drink or something - actively think about what you learned.

If you do one practice session like that every day, your skills will improve by the end of the week. EVERY DAY is super important - skip a day and your brain will forget.
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2010, 11:44 AM
Rotor Controller
CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
1,942 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine2501 View Post
EVERY DAY is super important - skip a day and your brain will forget.
EVERY DAY ??? I forget in an hour !!
CaptJac is offline Find More Posts by CaptJac
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2010, 11:51 AM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,354 Posts
What I usually do is start my RealFlight server and people come and go, and I fly a little and chat a little, and then I walk away and go do something else for a while. It's kinda like a day at the field - fly some, chat some, have a snack, whatever. I have my server set up to rotate the airports every 15 minutes, so when the airport switches, I take a break. I am not on the training schedule though - I'm just bored in the evenings sometimes and don't need the computer for anything else. When I'm trying to learn a new skill, such as the backwards inverted circuits I learned a while back - I leave the multi-player turned off and turn on some wind and turbulence and focus on what I'm learning for a while.
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2010, 11:51 AM
Registered User
st99's Avatar
United States, PA, Greene
Joined Jan 2005
313 Posts
Hey Jasmine, good ideas.
Thanks for that info. That is just what I need to do. I am sure that It will make me a a good bit better. I will soon buy a kit and want to get much better on the simulator before I fly the real thing.

st99
st99 is online now Find More Posts by st99
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2010, 12:30 PM
Rotor Controller
CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
1,942 Posts
A problem that new pilots have and try different ways to compensate for is PRECESSION. NO strike that - just got corrected from Jasmine - it is translating tendency. The name is not that important - but the effect is. The helicopter rolls to the left lifting off the ground. Some use the technique called - get off the ground quick and correct!! One of the 1st exercises I have my students work on is to learn very slow vertical liftoffs without any roll - harder than it sounds. The method to this madness is to apply a very slight amount of right aileron while still on the ground and as soon as you are light on the skids (begin lifting) - neutralize the aileron. The amount and timing on this is super critical and usually takes 100 or 200 repetitions before muscle memory finally gets it. As I tell my students - be patient - it takes time to train those muscles!! Adding some trim may make it seem easier but you are fighting the trim as soon as you are off the ground. When you have a perfect vertical lift - the helicopter will NOT be rolling and at that point you have a stable hover - at least for a few seconds before it starts drifting. Land immediate and repeat - repeat -repeat. As your muscle memory takes over you will be able to attain a stable hover for longer and longer periods until you are "predicting" the movement and inputting control instead of correcting for error. This takes a LOT of practice but once you learn it - controlling the heli will start to become automatic and the brain can start concentrating on the position of the helicopter instead of the position of your fingers (or thumbs) - depending how you hold the sticks. Practice until you can hold a 30 second hover in a 3 foot circle. The good news is that "muscle memory" will transfer to the the real world and flying will become (almost) a walk in the park. Have a great training -

captJac
CaptJac is offline Find More Posts by CaptJac
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by CaptJac; Dec 07, 2010 at 02:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2010, 12:51 PM
Registered User
st99's Avatar
United States, PA, Greene
Joined Jan 2005
313 Posts
Hey CaptJac,
That explanation about muscle memory clears a lot of things up for me. Chasing the Heli all around untill it gets far away then I have to fly it back and land it. If I do what you said, it will catch it at the beginning and have it under control somewhat.
Now, I understand a little about how muscle memory and my thumbs works.
Thanks.

st99
st99 is online now Find More Posts by st99
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2010, 01:42 PM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,354 Posts
When you have a little skillz, and your reaction times are good, you can do the rocket take-off and also have it be exactly where you want it. I do that sometimes with my 500, because it's amazing how fast it is - but I spin it up to 100% with a little negative pitch, hold a little forward and right, and slam the collective all the way up - it will lurch a little bit, and the tail may turn, so you have to be ready for it.

This is known as the "maximum performance take-off" - it's a maneuver for full-scale helis too - pop it up hard and go into forward flight right away. It lets you take advantage of translational lift, and if the helicopter is overloaded, you might still be able to fly. However, these techniques are not for beginners, and it's very hard on the machine too.

http://www.copters.com/pilot/max_takeoff.html
jasmine2501 is offline Find More Posts by jasmine2501
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 07, 2010, 02:05 PM
Rotor Controller
CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
1,942 Posts
There is an airport not too far away from where I live. Think I will go over there and watch helicopters rocket into the air.
CaptJac is offline Find More Posts by CaptJac
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted phoenix Simulator W/DX6i adapter -S- Aircraft - General - Miscellaneous (FS/W) 0 Mar 06, 2010 06:46 PM
Sold gone hacker002 Aircraft - General - Miscellaneous (FS/W) 0 Mar 05, 2010 10:57 PM
Wanted phoenix simulator-paypal ready hoehnelli Aircraft - General - Miscellaneous (FS/W) 1 Mar 03, 2010 07:15 PM
Discussion I need help on flying sailplanes in Phoenix RC simulator racin06 Sailplane Talk 2 Oct 25, 2007 07:26 AM