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Old Apr 23, 2010, 01:04 PM
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Cleveland Metroparks Part Deux

Paul,

Generally posting PM's is kind of a low blow (in my book at least). Im not sure I understand your intentions by doing so.

What I think is needed here is a smart, well coordinated effort in affecting policy change in regards to MP (Metroparks). Maybe Im missing something but thats what I took away from Cliff's post. I didnt read it at all that he had anything to hide. Furthermore, if he was trying to keep his "permission slip" a secret, why would he post it here?

Sharing ideas, information, etc. will be they only way to make this happen. At the risk of beating a dead horse, all Cliff did was ask you to hold up for a minute until you coordinated efforts.

The Metroparks IS large enough to have a few small areas for us to fly. All that is needed is a slight policy change. We will never get there with helping each other. Now someone please kick the soapbox out from under me.
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 02:49 PM
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Brunswick, OH
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Carnifax, it's difficult to confirm what "the respondent" actually said because he deleted all of his posts (and now the whole thread has been deleted). What I read was "Don't contact the Metroparks because you'll screw up my sweet deal I've got going." Nowhere was it mentioned that there was to be a concerted effort or that there were any plans to approach them about electric. "The respondent" simply stated that it couldn't be done and that I was to shut my mouth and take it.

Maybe I should have read further into the statements made and drawn some conclusions that were not actually typed... or maybe I completely missed the point of his posts. But I had my wife read his posts... as did Alex... and they both didn't get any subliminal message. The PM I posted from him did contain additional information not included in the replies to the thread that appeared to have very different suggestions.

The purpose of posting the PM's was to show his final volley. I don't see it as a low blow. I see it as telling the whole story. It was even suggested in the last post by "the respondent" that I should be approaching the Metroparks about a field in the East, West and South because that's "only fair." Oh really? Where are the 3 HLG fields?

I don't think that the Metroparks should be off limits to electric R/C. It's a public park. I can't think of a BETTER place to have a flying field. I agree it would be great to have a concerted effort. But that's not how some people roll.
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 04:38 PM
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What you need

If you guys want to open the Metroparks up to RC what you need is one of the following:

1. A large group protest
2. A lot of money
3. The ability to change the mentality of the governing body

Since 1 and 2 are not going to happen, you must work on 3.

Of all of the places I have been ONLY CLEVELAND METROPARKS HAS A PROBLEM WITH RC! I have flown my airplanes in 6 different states, multiple hospitals, parks, open fields, beaches, ect. Never anywhere but the metroparks has there ever been a problem. Every other municipality has seen RC as just another way an individual can use the park. For some reason in Cleveland it is viewed as a crime.

Here in Virginia (and Kentucky too) I have been asked to come back and fly in several spots. In fact if it weren't for the rain, I would be flying FPV at a local church (to which I do not belong nor attend) by their request! That's right, by request. I put on an air show on Fridays for the youth group.

What we as a club need to do is to change the governing mentality. There are such things as parkflyers. Not every plane is a screaming rocketship. For example kites are allowed. Eventhough my Predator power kite is just a kite, it can pull with enough force to roll a car and power kites have caused numerous injuries and deaths. Obviously this extreme is best kept out of the park for the most part. Same thing with RC. Nearly all sports and hobbies can be dangerous if taken to the extreme.

Thus I encourage Paul to see where he can get with his suggestions. Perhaps even using the AMA's guidelines for what defines a parkflyer would be suffice. Paul certainly has many small quiet airplanes that could perhaps show them that RC isn't all bad. After all, he did get the city of Brunswick to open up an airfield just for R/C. Apparently he's a lot better at persuasion than he represents here on this forum. Of course, it would help if he wasn't publicly attacked either.

I wish you guys luck on this. If there is no push back against authority then it will continue to walk on you. Keep it civil and non argumentative. and see where it goes. I'm sure you can get the support of the local hobby shops. Maybe even start a petition by having one at the counters of the LHS.

-Alex
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 04:48 PM
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Thanks Alex. One of the real issues we're going to have is the fact that the Metroparks has their own governing body and their own rules. So they can decide whatever they want on a whim. The commissioners are not elected they are appointed so there's no voting them out. The good thing is they are on a 3 year term and I assume (but have not read this anywhere) that one is off the board every year. So every 3 years there is new blood.

My approach has been to call the operator and start asking questions. She has directed me to someone and he directed me to someone else. I'm not feeling like I'm getting the run-around just yet, but my focus has been to ask questions and try to help them understand what I'm asking for. Currently, I'm awaiting a response from both guys I've talked to about meeting somewhere to show them an electric R/C plane. They can then decide which way they'd like to go.

If that approach doesn't work, the next step would be to attend a commissioner's meeting. Obviously, that's not the ideal route but it's certainly not off the table.

I am tactful on the phone and in person. But I don't respond well to "don't even bother trying, you can't do it." Good thing I've got so much free time, eh?
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBCrazy View Post
If there is no push back against authority then it will continue to walk on you.
Why do you guys assume that it is some sort of government repressing and putting down "the man"? Talk about selfish, how about the attitude of "I fly model planes and you have a place I want to fly so I will force you to let me or else"? How about respecting others? If they do not want to allow RC then so be it, respect their right and go fly somewhere else. I do not get it. It sounds much like a child having a temper tantrum for not getting what they want.
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 05:06 PM
Wonderfully Wicked
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Originally Posted by HappyKillmore View Post
I am tactful on the phone and in person. But I don't respond well to "don't even bother trying, you can't do it." Good thing I've got so much free time, eh?
Based on how I have see you post on RCG in the past you may just get yourself banned from the Metroparks
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 07:57 PM
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Northfield Ohio
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I think that you are fighting a LOOSING battle against the metroparks. The Corsair Model Airplane Club in Akron has been kicked out of its flying field by the Akron Metroparks. The CMAC has been flying from its field by the Summit County Fairgrounds for 40 years. The Akron Metroparks bought property that abuts their field. The Metroparks does not want them flying over their property. They took the CMAC to court and got them SHUT DOWN. CMAC fought them for two years and LOST.
I feel that the Metroparks were WRONG to do what it did. They should not have bought the property but they did and now CMAC is gone.


Roger L
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Don,

I never said or even implied this. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we pay taxes to the city (well I don't anymore) to keep the Metroparks open. Thus we have a right to persuade a change... even though we might not get it. It's called democracy. It's what makes this country great.

With respect,

-Alex
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBCrazy View Post
Don,
I never said or even implied this. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we pay taxes to the city (well I don't anymore) to keep the Metroparks open. Thus we have a right to persuade a change... even though we might not get it. It's called democracy. It's what makes this country great.
With respect,
-Alex
Yes you have the right to pursuade change but people also have the right to a quiet park. There are 1000s of people in the parks any day and the small amount of RC users in this area are insignifigant compared to that number. So if you want democracy, then it is easy, appease 50 RC modelers or 50,000 park users, you loose 1000: 1 . There are plenty of areas to fly RC in this area and coexist with the rest of the world. They are called RC clubs. There are plenty in this area and for the cost of a lipo or two people can join and fly when they want with no hassles. Why intentionally go through the hassle of fighting with the Metroparks to overturn a restriction that has been there for probably 30+ years.

How would you like it if some guy came to the park with a bucket of golf balls and started hitting them in your direction. In his mind he has a right to use the park since he pays taxes. Why go to an expensive golf course or pay for a driving range, he can hit balls at the park for free. So what if he hits a few people or cars, it is his 'right' correct?

Not everyone in this world enjoys RC planes like we do. I do not think it is unreasonable to let the majority of the community and tax payers have a park to go with to enjoy with their families with no Strykers buzzing around their heads.

Personally I do not care if it is allowed or not, makes no difference to me. I have three RC fields I can fly at anytime. I would rather fly my planes then write letters in protest and make countless phone calls. Flying is more fun.
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 09:02 PM
Wonderfully Wicked
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Originally Posted by rogerl View Post
I think that you are fighting a LOOSING battle against the metroparks. The Corsair Model Airplane Club in Akron has been kicked out of its flying field by the Akron Metroparks.
That is the club I was thinking of, thanks Roger.
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 10:54 PM
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Now, I am not seriously advocating violating the law (ahem) and I claim innocence since I no longer live in the Cleveland area, but...

Imagine a league of rogue RC night flyers setting off an ongoing series of UFO sightings in the Cleveland Metroparks...

I can see it now - Honest card-carrying club-belonging RC pilots by day... Ninja-clad, V for Vendetta mask wearing, LED Elipstik pilot (Jack) by night...

Sorry, got a little carried away!
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 10:59 PM
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Already saw a news report a few weeks ago of a guy seeing "colors" around the Eastlake area which happens to be right where Dan from Lazertoyz lives! Hmmmmmm....

Don
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
How would you like it if some guy came to the park with a bucket of golf balls and started hitting them in your direction. In his mind he has a right to use the park since he pays taxes. Why go to an expensive golf course or pay for a driving range, he can hit balls at the park for free. So what if he hits a few people or cars, it is his 'right' correct?
Ahem...the Metroparks has 7 golf courses. It has 0 (official) R/C flying fields.
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 11:36 PM
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Ahem...the Metroparks has 7 golf courses. It has 0 (official) R/C flying fields.
Yeah and the point is?????
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Old Apr 23, 2010, 11:47 PM
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Don,
With all due respect, everything you say is correct. No arguments here BUT at 22,000 acres (or whatever) we are not talking about a small chunk of land. Logically it would seem they could allocate even a small parcel for our usage. Its not as though they dont already cater to special interest groups currently. Golf courses, riding stables, the Cleveland Zoo, fishing spots, jogging/bike trails, swimming pools, flower trails, maple syrup mfg are all spots set aside for special interest groups. Whats so different about RC planes? While it may seem futile and pointless to you, it is right at my doorstep while the closest dedicated RC club is 35 minutes away. Furthermore, the worst that can happen is to be told no.

Alex,
Are you sure you have a horse in this race?

Edit: Did you know that the Metroparks did at one time have an area dedicated to RC planes?
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