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Old Nov 14, 2011, 02:31 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrjr View Post
It's called polyhedral and will tend to level an unlevel plane. If plane is banking, it will level the wings in theory with no user input.



I haven't done it but you can expect a faster stall speed, better knife edge tendencies, and maybe a faster top end. Not sure about roll rates.... might be a tad faster. You can buy wing sets at BH..... get a set and try it out.... then you can switch back if you don't like it and send them to me.
Cut them off and it will roll like a drill
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 04:17 PM
Gravity impaired
jrjr's Avatar
United States, NY, Wolcott
Joined Nov 2004
1,516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Cut them off and it will roll like a drill


drum roll please
oh wait, that was drill roll
Please disregard this post.

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Old Nov 14, 2011, 04:22 PM
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San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2006
1,280 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
As erkq mentioned, the curved-up wingtips are for dihedral purposes. If you kick rudder and skid the plane sideways, the wings will bank over on their own to enter a (fairly) proper turn. Or, if you bank over and start sliding downhill to the side, the plane will tend to level its wings by itself. Good beginner features. I like this effect. But whatever floats your boat.

Actually, the "most efficient" dihedral shape, is to have an elliptical-curved wing. SkySurfer is actually fairly close to that (ditto for EasyStar). And as long as you're stamping the wings out as one pice of foam, why not make it "right"?

But, in truth, my guess is that the biggest REAL reason for those curved-up tips, is to make beginner customers say "oooh, that looks really cool!", so you can charge them more money.
BTW, the Wright Brothers weren't too sure that this "dihedral effect" was a good thing. They were worried that having a plane bank automatically in response to a rudder input, might have been confusing and result in a plane that was hard to control. Nobody had ever tried it before, and they were trying to anticipate everything. Their famous "First flight plane" was set up the opposite way, with wings that bent slightly DOWN at the tips.

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Old Nov 14, 2011, 04:34 PM
Occupying RCG
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United States, MS, Ocean Springs
Joined Sep 2009
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Known as "anhedral".
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 04:35 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
5,406 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrjr View Post
I haven't done it but you can expect a faster stall speed, better knife edge tendencies, and maybe a faster top end. Not sure about roll rates.... might be a tad faster. You can buy wing sets at BH..... get a set and try it out.... then you can switch back if you don't like it and send them to me.
Yeah, Jam1e....that's a plan I've kinda had in the back of my mind -- get an extra set of wings to (Plan A) replace the Bix' wings when I ding 'em up enough to do a chop job on them (as you're looking to do), or (B), chop off the tips & try in the Bix as a stunter......all after my flying skills have developed to a ready point. I mean, get the wings now, for later.

Was gonna add earlier but replying here....the only guy I'd heard (up to that point) of chopping tips was that 'ExtremeRC' guy in one of his videos, but never saw anything as to where he'd done it - ie, results. He did mention specifically, "...to make it a stunter". So, GO for it, I say!

2d option: Since you've fallen out of love - interested in selling it? An aero-divorce!! *LOL* Contact me via PM with a deal & we'll talk!
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 04:50 PM
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gtoguy's Avatar
USA, CA, Healdsburg
Joined Dec 2007
205 Posts
Tipstall woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I have two V1 Skysurfers I fly. The first one flew great until I added 240 LEDs on it. Itís equipped with 2835 2200 kv inrunner. With the weight of LEDs the plane tipstalled like crazy until I moved the CG forward by simply taping a quarter to the nose. CG is about 60 mm. However, if I take that quarter off the nose my knees buckle in anticipation of it reverting to being a tipstalling son of a gun.

The second Skysurfer is also a V1. Itís a Microdan equipped plane. It flies fine but the CG is at 60 mm as well. I have never tipstalled this plane. I also added gyros to the ailerons and elevator in the last couple of months just because I wanted to do so. I like it.

Neither plane feels sluggish with the 60 mm CG.


I have a V2 ARF sitting NIB. I know I am going to carve out bunch of foam because I like a roomy cargo bay for battery, ESC and receiver.

Bill
Bill,
I think I'll measure the AUW on the V1 vs. the V2, I wonder if that might be part of the puzzle. Will check this out tonight and post what I find. I run my V1 (that is in the same configuration as the V2) with and without gyros and it behaves as expected with no ill effects. I haven't read that others are complaining about the V2 being more sensitive to tips stalling so I'm pretty sure it's my configuration.
Paul
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 08:44 PM
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United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined Aug 2011
1,602 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flypoppa View Post
And some last words from me. Mix a bit of rudder in with the ailerons... Well that's what you do with the real ones.
If you want to turn a bit then give a bit of aileron with the stick.
Thanks Flypoppa. I will try a mix of rudder and ailerons.

I will also follow the guidance of Prof100, jrjr & Starhopper to go easy on the amount of "stick" I use.

My CG is 61 mm and the plane is very stable in flight. I have been able maintain control with smooth movements until something goes wrong. I then react to the issue and over compensate.

As Prof100 put it, it is hard to teach a Rookie (that's me) via blogs. I need to be able to quickly overcome my anxiety of crashing, relax and then get the plane back under control.

As jrjr & Starhopper mentioned, "Patience" and "take is easy" are the keys to good flights. That and lots of practice.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Vince
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 08:55 PM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
Joined Dec 2010
7,497 Posts
[QUOTE=Little-Acorn;19874560]BTW, the Wright Brothers weren't too sure that this "dihedral effect" was a good thing. They were worried that having a plane bank automatically in response to a rudder input, might have been confusing and result in a plane that was hard to control. Nobody had ever tried it before, and they were trying to anticipate everything. Their famous "First flight plane" was set up the opposite way, with wings that bent slightly DOWN at the tips.

They didn't even like the idea of banking in a turn. Their turns were flat. I think it was the French, or perhaps a later Wright Brothers model that finally actually banked in turns.
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 10:13 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
5,406 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle202 View Post
... I need to be able to quickly overcome my anxiety of crashing, relax and then get the plane back under control.
...
... That and lots of practice.
Vince
My sensei advised me, (on the occasion he handed the Tx to me & said "I'll launch - you're flyiing it") you've got to be able to handle the unexpected....and that's the main thing I think the learning process, and practice, will teach you because they DO constantly pop up. That's perhaps the biggest 'given' about this sport. AFA 'tools' for learning, that's the main thing the "1OS" altitude (40-50' if it needs quantifying) provides.

Accept that some things you'll be able to handle, some you won't. You're GONNA have mishaps - just accept that, but don't fret about it. With practice and experience, you'll find the mishaps come farther & farther apart....and you won't BELIEVE how many times you have close calls but you SAVED it. Time spent practicing equals time not spent around the gluepot. And remember, there's only ONE way to get experience. 8)
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 12:39 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
5,406 Posts
Got a question for you experienced gyro users.
Since aileron gyros tend to keep the wing stable, presumably where you 'put' them(?)....does that mean if you're in a banking turn you'll need to level the wings yourself coming out of the turn thru opposite aileron input? Or is that not at all how they work??
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 01:46 AM
Mark Harrison
USA, CA, Piedmont
Joined Jun 2010
2,256 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by olthump View Post
Known as "anhedral".
sheesh, no wonder they only made it 120 feet!
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 02:27 AM
Mark Harrison
USA, CA, Piedmont
Joined Jun 2010
2,256 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virginia Jim View Post
Mark:

Though I'm not currently having problems binding, I checked out your blog and I was very impressed. Your content is in nice bite-sized "chunks" and your photography is professional quality. I have saved a link for future perusal.

Nice job, and thanks for your efforts to share this stuff!

VJ
Thanks VJ!!
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 03:05 AM
Team Lumenier Pilot
Grazer's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Aug 2011
2,543 Posts
Did the maiden flight today of my customised Bix.

Quote:
Just finished my Bixler with many of the mods described in this thread.

Thanks for such a rich resource. It helped me a whole heap.

Mods:

1. 3mm carbon rod - Fuse
2. 3mm carbon rod - Elevator
3. 3mm carbon rod - Rudder
4. 4mm carbon rod inserted into the supplied 5mm carbon wing spar
5. Rare earth magnets in wing roots to keep them in safe
6. Extreme packing tape to all control surface hinges
7. Extreme packing tape to protect / keep fuse halves together (glued also)
8. Du-bro control horns - Elevator and Rudder
9. Du-bro wing tips to protect aileron servo horns
10. Du-bro skid for tail
11. Silicone fuel tube on rudder rod to protect horizontal stabiliser
12. Removed all decals and applied custom paint scheme
13. Removed the washers in nose

Stock Prop, Motor and ESC - like the RTF would ship but got the ARF.

With a PZ 3S 2200Mah battery pushed all the way forward, slightly tail heavy at a target CG of 60mm.
Added 30G weight up-front to give a slightly nose heavy balance at 60mm CG.

Probably the only additional mod I will make is to add an efficient cooling inlet / outlet. Played around with my Radian Pro hatch and might butcher a spare to fit to my Bixler.

Got a picture too before she gets scars from the belly landings.

Looking forward to the maiden.
It was a short but successful flight. Short only because the wind came up strong and I wanted to get her down safely to check all was well.

After launch, she headed towards the earth but I gently applied elevator to point her back away from gravity. It wasn't a close moment, but was headed that way.

Getting her down was a challenge. She wanted to climb and climb on the wind and thermals. Very efficient. I am used to bringing my warbirds in with some throttle, so to glide (nil power) seemed a little weird to me.

My custom paint job was not as visible as I thought it would be. Wings are currently in the paint shop getting some yellow bands underneath.

Wanted to share some photos of my inlet and outlet ducts to keep the ESC cool. Cut up a few spoons before I ended up using these scoops from a Parkzone Spitfire MKIX. The part number is PZ5727.

Probably will paint them white to blend in, but thought best to photograph them before I do, so you can at least see them properly.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 03:08 AM
Me a long time ago
Flypoppa's Avatar
London N.E. UK
Joined Jan 2007
6,095 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
BTW, the Wright Brothers weren't too sure that this "dihedral effect" was a good thing. They were worried that having a plane bank automatically in response to a rudder input, might have been confusing and result in a plane that was hard to control. Nobody had ever tried it before, and they were trying to anticipate everything. Their famous "First flight plane" was set up the opposite way, with wings that bent slightly DOWN at the tips.

I think you will find that the anhederal was caused by the weight of the wings.
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Old Nov 15, 2011, 03:18 AM
Registered User
Worcestershire, England
Joined Nov 2007
481 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Yeah, Jam1e....that's a plan I've kinda had in the back of my mind -- get an extra set of wings to (Plan A) replace the Bix' wings when I ding 'em up enough to do a chop job on them (as you're looking to do), or (B), chop off the tips & try in the Bix as a stunter......all after my flying skills have developed to a ready point. I mean, get the wings now, for later.

Was gonna add earlier but replying here....the only guy I'd heard (up to that point) of chopping tips was that 'ExtremeRC' guy in one of his videos, but never saw anything as to where he'd done it - ie, results. He did mention specifically, "...to make it a stunter". So, GO for it, I say!

2d option: Since you've fallen out of love - interested in selling it? An aero-divorce!! *LOL* Contact me via PM with a deal & we'll talk!
I've fallen out of "love" with it to the point i'm thinking, Oh sh*t to it, i don't enjoy flying it as is anyway, So why would i want another set of wings to put it back that way!?
I'd be happy to sell it to you Starhopper44, but you live in a great country called the USA. Where as i live in whats known as "Europes dustbin", or trash can as you know it The UK. Postage would be more than value of the model itself!
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