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Old Nov 14, 2011, 09:22 AM
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeronca View Post
... I also fail to understand your question being keyed off my quote that you posted with this question.

Aeronca
I thought the 'all-3-channel pins' rigs must be characteristic of a 4-ch setup, & looked from your note like that's what you had. Surprised to hear 6-ch Rx is shipping with 4-ch Tx's! (Plus, your post was the closest-by *LOL*)

But the 'why would one order 4-ch' question applies to anyone. Can't figure the logic behind that, at all!

Quote:
The "brand" is unknown, as it is all simply labled with "Hobby King" and Bixler 2.4gHz.
Might just be a difference in terminology, but generally the 'Brand' is what the label says.
Now, who manufactures it (the 'Mfr'), and what goes inside whatever casing they use, is another matter. Most Mfr's these days (especially Chinese) will brand (label) any product they're capable of making, with any label that somebody with a fistful of money wants them to!!
(See pix below)

That's one thing about this stuff that makes it all the more confusing - and that's just what the sellers want you to be - confused. They want you to blindly rely on 'brand loyalty' as your sole guidance in making these purchases - and they "tell" you plenty in support of that philosophy. Plenty of lies, or at best, twisting words into half-truths or at best, "not quite lies"!

Some time ago I found out something. HK would have you believe this HK6DF is their EXCLUSIVE radio. What I found out was, this very 6-channel radio is -- of COURSE mfr'd by another company -- but also it's quite common, sold by various companies with THEIR branding, likely in a different casing, but functionally it's the very same radio! The 'guts' are identical, or at most have some minor revision (in some cases, cosmetic) to qualify it as "different", or proprietary.

Another example - everywhere you look, you'll see the HK6DF receiver specified as the only one that will work with that Tx. What the blurb actually says is: "This receiver is only for use with the HobbyKing HK6DF transmitter".
Which, if you note, is actually saying THAT receiver is only ....well, read the words. It does NOT say, tho the inference is there, it is the ONLY RECEIVER that will work with the HK6DF Radio! I was told last week that this: http://www.hobbypartz.com/79p-r6b-receiver.html receiver is functionally the same, and works just fine with the HK6DF Tx. I intend to find out -- ordered it this past Friday. Practically same price as HK's, so why? That infernal 4-6 week wait & Seventy-'leven dollars of shipping charges, that's why!! Buying one & trying it's a safe gamble, to me, & well worth the price if it is a loss, to know the facts!
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 09:38 AM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
Joined Dec 2010
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I thought I'd add my perhaps unhelpful comments about aileron control and roll rate. Just use the aileron input required to get the desired results. It's not a "position" control like car steering. It's also not a "rate" contol like an unlimited aerobatic plane. As noted before, the Bix is self stabilizing and so fights a little to come back to level.

Bottom line: use the aileron input that produces the desired result. It may sound unhelpful, but for me, that relization was one of my breakthroughs when learning to fly.
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 09:49 AM
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Joined Sep 2011
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Binding the Bixler

Update on my binding the HK Bixler. Tried some of the suggested combinations and with the aileron plug and esc plug in and with the bind plug in the last set of pins opposite the aileron pins I can get the Rx light to stop blinking and go solid. If I take the bind plug out it starts blinking again. Still no beeps when plugging in the battery. Nothing seems to happen when pushing the bind button on the Tx. Thought I had it after the postings last night but this morning failed to get it too bind. No response from any of the servos. Also tried just the bind plug alone.
Really appreciate all the info and posts from the members of this forum. Will go back out to the garage and continue to roll the dice and see what happens.
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 09:49 AM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Last word. Don't overcontrol the plane. RIP
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 10:21 AM
Me a long time ago
Flypoppa's Avatar
London N.E. UK
Joined Jan 2007
6,095 Posts
And some last words from me. Mix a bit of rudder in with the ailerons... Well that's what you do with the real ones.
If you want to turn a bit then give a bit of aileron with the stick.
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 10:31 AM
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Worcestershire, England
Joined Nov 2007
481 Posts
Can anyone tell me what purpose the wing tips have by being curved
To be honest i've kind of fallen out of love with the Bixler already
It does everything it's supposed to, and i did research it before buying it. I wanted an easy relaxing model to fly at my local park. Which it is. But..... It's too sedate for me
I'm probably setting myself up for an "ear bashing" for suggesting this, but, has anyone shortend the wings on the bixler and if so how did it perform after that? I'm contemplating cutting the curved part of the wing tips off.
The link below shows the AXN flying with the curved tips taken off. It seems to fly fine without them from what i can see. Although i appreciate the Bixler has around 5" longer wingspan
Rcflyer96 - Clouds fly - Axn floater jet - Modifications (1 min 26 sec)

Constructive opinions appreciated.
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 10:40 AM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam1e View Post
Can anyone tell me what purpose the wing tips have by being curved
To be honest i've kind of fallen out of love with the Bixler already
It does everything it's supposed to, and i did research it before buying it. I wanted an easy relaxing model to fly at my local park. Which it is. But..... It's too sedate for me
I'm probably setting myself up for an "ear bashing" for suggesting this, but, has anyone shortend the wings on the bixler and if so how did it perform after that? I'm contemplating cutting the curved part of the wing tips off.
This ws discussed just a few pages (posts?) back. It it a multi-dihedral wing that is used for roll stability.

Yes, this is a sedate model... good for beginners and excellent for small FPV work. People have cut the wings down, but not me as I'm using this for my first foray into FPV. So I can't comment. I've got other planes to fly to get my ya-ya's out. Right tool for the job...
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 10:45 AM
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The Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67A1f View Post
Update on my binding the HK Bixler. Tried some of the suggested combinations and with the aileron plug and esc plug in and with the bind plug in the last set of pins opposite the aileron pins I can get the Rx light to stop blinking and go solid. If I take the bind plug out it starts blinking again. Still no beeps when plugging in the battery. Nothing seems to happen when pushing the bind button on the Tx.
When it stops blinking and goes solid, that should be the point where it's bound. So then release the bind button, switch off the Rx and then Tx. Then take out the bind plug. After that you can connect all your stuff and try it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67A1f View Post
Thought I had it after the postings last night but this morning failed to get it too bind. No response from any of the servos. Also tried just the bind plug alone.
You know you only have to bind it once right? After the one time just turn on your Tx then Rx and everything should be good.
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 11:19 AM
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Worcestershire, England
Joined Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
This ws discussed just a few pages (posts?) back. It it a multi-dihedral wing that is used for roll stability.

Yes, this is a sedate model... good for beginners and excellent for small FPV work. People have cut the wings down, but not me as I'm using this for my first foray into FPV. So I can't comment. I've got other planes to fly to get my ya-ya's out. Right tool for the job...
Thanks Erkq,
I can't get the drop down page selector to work so have to go back one by
one
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 11:28 AM
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USA, CA, Healdsburg
Joined Dec 2007
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Tip Stalls

Been a while since I've posted on the discussion, but I've been buying and flying Sky Surfers now for about 10 months. I have four: one V1 BH, two V1 Bixler, and one V2 BH. My V1 BH and V2 are configured very close to each other and are flying with most of the mods in Posts 2/3 on this thread. I'm running the HXT 2835 (I purchased some before they went out of stock), with separate BEC (Castle) and the same ESC/servos.

The V2 has been a disaster story since day one. Flying it just the same way as my other three Sky Surfers, it has a tendency to tip stall and violently spiral to the ground much easier than the other three. In fact, if you aren't on your game flying this plane it will stall with just about any sharp turn even at a respectable air speed. If you go to AJ's video in post #4, at about 3 minutes in where it does a violent spin/dive, that is what I am witnessing.


Here's what I've gone through:
Early on, thought I was getting receiver drop-outs not aerodynamic problems:
  • Validated that I haven't been getting receiver drop-out (put one of my new DSMX receivers in with telemetry and set an alarm for signal strength).
  • Replaced and eliminated the BEC considering noise was a problem
  • Replaced several servos that looked like they may be binding

Once I got to where I could reproduce the death spiral associated with the tip stall I started checking airframe issues:
  • Adjusted CG from 60 to 72mm, more sensitive to tip stalls from 62mm to 60mm but gets rather sluggish to fly as you push the CG to a more nose-heavy configuration.
  • Adjusted lateral balance to near perfect.
  • Checked for airframe straightness/incidence and while it has been glued together after a few bad accidents from earlier stalls, it's pretty straight and has no hint of incidence.

Tried moving the wings from one of my V1's to the problematic V2 and it seemed less sensitive to stalling (i.e. it made turns slower before stalling). I can hold the two pair up to each other and can't see the difference. Other than tossing the airframe and wings, do you guys have any other ideas?

Wish I could video the situation, but my setup requires a 2nd person to record the video and I rarely have someone available.

Paul
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 12:34 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtoguy View Post
Been a while since I've posted on the discussion, but I've been buying and flying Sky Surfers now for about 10 months. I have four: one V1 BH, two V1 Bixler, and one V2 BH. My V1 BH and V2 are configured very close to each other and are flying with most of the mods in Posts 2/3 on this thread. I'm running the HXT 2835 (I purchased some before they went out of stock), with separate BEC (Castle) and the same ESC/servos.

The V2 has been a disaster story since day one. Flying it just the same way as my other three Sky Surfers, it has a tendency to tip stall and violently spiral to the ground much easier than the other three. In fact, if you aren't on your game flying this plane it will stall with just about any sharp turn even at a respectable air speed. If you go to AJ's video in post #4, at about 3 minutes in where it does a violent spin/dive, that is what I am witnessing.


Here's what I've gone through:

Early on, thought I was getting receiver drop-outs not aerodynamic problems:
  • Validated that I haven't been getting receiver drop-out (put one of my new DSMX receivers in with telemetry and set an alarm for signal strength).
  • Replaced and eliminated the BEC considering noise was a problem
  • Replaced several servos that looked like they may be binding

Once I got to where I could reproduce the death spiral associated with the tip stall I started checking airframe issues:
  • Adjusted CG from 60 to 72mm, more sensitive to tip stalls from 62mm to 60mm but gets rather sluggish to fly as you push the CG to a more nose-heavy configuration.
  • Adjusted lateral balance to near perfect.
  • Checked for airframe straightness/incidence and while it has been glued together after a few bad accidents from earlier stalls, it's pretty straight and has no hint of incidence.
Tried moving the wings from one of my V1's to the problematic V2 and it seemed less sensitive to stalling (i.e. it made turns slower before stalling). I can hold the two pair up to each other and can't see the difference. Other than tossing the airframe and wings, do you guys have any other ideas?

Wish I could video the situation, but my setup requires a 2nd person to record the video and I rarely have someone available.

Paul
I have two V1 Skysurfers I fly. The first one flew great until I added 240 LEDs on it. Itís equipped with 2835 2200 kv inrunner. With the weight of LEDs the plane tipstalled like crazy until I moved the CG forward by simply taping a quarter to the nose. CG is about 60 mm. However, if I take that quarter off the nose my knees buckle in anticipation of it reverting to being a tipstalling son of a gun.

The second Skysurfer is also a V1. Itís a Microdan equipped plane. It flies fine but the CG is at 60 mm as well. I have never tipstalled this plane. I also added gyros to the ailerons and elevator in the last couple of months just because I wanted to do so. I like it.

Neither plane feels sluggish with the 60 mm CG.


I have a V2 ARF sitting NIB. I know I am going to carve out bunch of foam because I like a roomy cargo bay for battery, ESC and receiver.

Bill
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 12:40 PM
Registered User
Worcestershire, England
Joined Nov 2007
481 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtoguy View Post
Been a while since I've posted on the discussion, but I've been buying and flying Sky Surfers now for about 10 months. I have four: one V1 BH, two V1 Bixler, and one V2 BH. My V1 BH and V2 are configured very close to each other and are flying with most of the mods in Posts 2/3 on this thread. I'm running the HXT 2835 (I purchased some before they went out of stock), with separate BEC (Castle) and the same ESC/servos.

The V2 has been a disaster story since day one. Flying it just the same way as my other three Sky Surfers, it has a tendency to tip stall and violently spiral to the ground much easier than the other three. In fact, if you aren't on your game flying this plane it will stall with just about any sharp turn even at a respectable air speed. If you go to AJ's video in post #4, at about 3 minutes in where it does a violent spin/dive, that is what I am witnessing.


Here's what I've gone through:
Early on, thought I was getting receiver drop-outs not aerodynamic problems:
  • Validated that I haven't been getting receiver drop-out (put one of my new DSMX receivers in with telemetry and set an alarm for signal strength).
  • Replaced and eliminated the BEC considering noise was a problem
  • Replaced several servos that looked like they may be binding

Once I got to where I could reproduce the death spiral associated with the tip stall I started checking airframe issues:
  • Adjusted CG from 60 to 72mm, more sensitive to tip stalls from 62mm to 60mm but gets rather sluggish to fly as you push the CG to a more nose-heavy configuration.
  • Adjusted lateral balance to near perfect.
  • Checked for airframe straightness/incidence and while it has been glued together after a few bad accidents from earlier stalls, it's pretty straight and has no hint of incidence.

Tried moving the wings from one of my V1's to the problematic V2 and it seemed less sensitive to stalling (i.e. it made turns slower before stalling). I can hold the two pair up to each other and can't see the difference. Other than tossing the airframe and wings, do you guys have any other ideas?

Wish I could video the situation, but my setup requires a 2nd person to record the video and I rarely have someone available.

Paul
Thanks for the info Paul. I'll try making my Bixler more neutral than it's current nose heavy state and see what happens before i chop the wings.
My right hand wing does need around 2 grams on the tip to make it balance. I'll do this but doubt it would make much of a difference. We'll see......he Bixler has stalled
Interestingly i have had a couple on instances where, during a sharp turn, ("bank and yank") the Bixler has gone into a violent spin, the last being recovered at the last moment!! But to be fair i may have brought on a high speed stall by pushing it too hard, so my own fault....
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 01:57 PM
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San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam1e View Post
Can anyone tell me what purpose the wing tips have by being curved
To be honest i've kind of fallen out of love with the Bixler already
It does everything it's supposed to, and i did research it before buying it. I wanted an easy relaxing model to fly at my local park. Which it is. But..... It's too sedate for me
As erkq mentioned, the curved-up wingtips are for dihedral purposes. If you kick rudder and skid the plane sideways, the wings will bank over on their own to enter a (fairly) proper turn. Or, if you bank over and start sliding downhill to the side, the plane will tend to level its wings by itself. Good beginner features. I like this effect. But whatever floats your boat.

Actually, the "most efficient" dihedral shape, is to have an elliptical-curved wing. SkySurfer is actually fairly close to that (ditto for EasyStar). And as long as you're stamping the wings out as one pice of foam, why not make it "right"?

But, in truth, my guess is that the biggest REAL reason for those curved-up tips, is to make beginner customers say "oooh, that looks really cool!", so you can charge them more money.
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 02:13 PM
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United States, NY, Wolcott
Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
C'mon guys....it's da HOPPER here! *LOL*
My post was directed to Eagle202
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Old Nov 14, 2011, 02:22 PM
Gravity impaired
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United States, NY, Wolcott
Joined Nov 2004
1,516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam1e View Post
Can anyone tell me what purpose the wing tips have by being curved
It's called polyhedral and will tend to level an unlevel plane. If plane is banking, it will level the wings in theory with no user input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam1e View Post
Constructive opinions appreciated.
I haven't done it but you can expect a faster stall speed, better knife edge tendencies, and maybe a faster top end. Not sure about roll rates.... might be a tad faster. You can buy wing sets at BH..... get a set and try it out.... then you can switch back if you don't like it and send them to me.
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