HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 30, 2011, 04:22 PM
There's magic in those wings !
khaled_abobakr's Avatar
Joined Nov 2006
4,848 Posts
I need more thrust from the same motor .. ??!!

Hi ..

I'm a beginner when it comes to choosing the proper power system ..and I suppose I'm stuck with the one I have and I really appreciate helping me getting the most out of it ...

Setup ...

My Bixler for FPV weights 1088g
Motor .. 2836-22 the purple one from headsuprc.com .. 2200kv

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...s-Motor/Detail

ESC Turnigy plush 40AMP

Current prop is pusher APC 6X4 EP

According to the test data from the motor page at headsuprc.com

Propeller test data for the 2836-22 with 3-cell Lipo battery:

EMP 6x3E: 24 oz of thrust @ 19 amps with a pitch speed of 52 mph.

APC 6 x 4E speed 400: 21 oz thrust @ 20 amps with a pitch speed of 68 mph.

Master Airscrew 6 x 4 x 3: 22 oz thrust @ 21 amps.

APC 6 x 5.5E: 20 oz thrust @ 23 amps with a pitch speed of 85 mph.

EMP 5 x 5E: 15 oz thrust @ 18 amps.


Please correct me

1-If everything is kept the same but I replaced the prop with a higher pitch prop .. I should get more thrust .. correct ??

2- If everything is kept the same but I replaced the prop with a larger diameter prop .. I should get more thrust .. correct ??

3- If everything is kept the same but I replaced the prop with a larger diameter and a higher pitch prop .. I should get more thrust .. correct ??

4- What is the difference between that 2200KV Inrunner and an equivalent 2200KV Outrunner of the same size (for the same model size )

I wonder why the test data is so confusing to me .. probably because of me .. not having the basic knowledge about how power system really work

Thanks a lot

Khaled
khaled_abobakr is offline Find More Posts by khaled_abobakr
Last edited by khaled_abobakr; Oct 30, 2011 at 05:58 PM. Reason: link corrected ...
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 30, 2011, 04:29 PM
The figure "9" Specialist
aeronca's Avatar
A Barrier Island in New Jersey, USA
Joined Oct 2003
3,489 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by marhar View Post
I just upgraded the motor/ESC on my Hawk Sky. I got it before the Bixler came out.

The ESC is glued to the inside wall. Remove the black motor mount, unplug the motor, and then give traction via the power wires. The glue will give way and the ESC will come out the front opening with no surgery.

The new ESC I attached like everyone else does on the top.
marhar,

I appreciate your explanation on the ESC removal in the HS, thanks! Out of curiosity, did you swap out your ESC because of a failure or erratic behavior, or did you swap it out before your first flight as I intend?

Aeronca
aeronca is offline Find More Posts by aeronca
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2011, 04:41 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,617 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaled_abobakr View Post
Hi ..

I'm a beginner when it comes to choosing the proper power system ..and I suppose I'm stuck with the one I have and I really appreciate helping me getting the most out of it ...

Setup ...

My Bixler for FPV weights 1088g
Motor .. 2836-22 the purple one from headsuprc.com .. 2200kv

http://www.hobbywireless.com/cart/in...roducts_id=134

ESC Turnigy plush 40AMP

Current prop is pusher APC 6X4 EP

According to the test data from the motor page at headsuprc.com

Propeller test data for the 2836-22 with 3-cell Lipo battery:

EMP 6x3E: 24 oz of thrust @ 19 amps with a pitch speed of 52 mph.

APC 6 x 4E speed 400: 21 oz thrust @ 20 amps with a pitch speed of 68 mph.

Master Airscrew 6 x 4 x 3: 22 oz thrust @ 21 amps.

APC 6 x 5.5E: 20 oz thrust @ 23 amps with a pitch speed of 85 mph.

EMP 5 x 5E: 15 oz thrust @ 18 amps.

Please correct me

1-If everything is kept the same but I replaced the prop with a higher pitch prop .. I should get more thrust .. correct ?? No, higher pitch will give you more speed less thrust.

2- If everything is kept the same but I replaced the prop with a larger diameter prop .. I should get more thrust .. correct ?? Yes.

3- If everything is kept the same but I replaced the prop with a larger diameter and a higher pitch prop .. I should get more thrust .. correct ?? More thrust and speed with the higher speed.

4- What is the difference between that 2200KV Inrunner and an equivalent 2200KV Outrunner of the same size (for the same model size ) -- Weight. The inrunner is heavier.

I wonder why the test data is so confusing to me .. probably because of me .. not having the basic knowledge about how power system really work

Thanks a lot

Khaled
See in bold above.
Prof100 is online now Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Old Oct 30, 2011, 05:04 PM
Nakelp
nakelp86's Avatar
United States, NJ, Union
Joined Sep 2004
6,794 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flypoppa View Post
TOTALLY OFF TOPIC
 
 

 

To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II:

In light of your immediate failure to financially manage yourselves and also in recent years your tendency to elect incompetent Presidents of the USA and therefore not able to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately. (You should look up 'revocation' in the Oxford English Dictionary.)

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas , which she does not fancy).

Your new Prime Minister, David Cameron, will appoint a Governor for America without the need for further elections.

Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated sometime next year to determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour,' 'favour,' 'labour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by the suffix '-ise.'Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary'). (I love that one)


Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as ''like' and 'you know' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as U.S. English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take into account the reinstated letter 'u'' and the elimination of '-ize.' ' (I love that one too)

3. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.

4. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not ready to shoot grouse.

5. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.

7. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.)

8.You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.

9. The cold, tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. New Zealand beer is also acceptable, as New Zealand is pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.

10. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.

11. You will cease playing American football. There are only two kinds of proper football; one you call soccer, and rugby (dominated by the New Zealanders). Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).

12. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America . Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the Australians (World dominators) first to take the sting out of their deliveries.

13. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.

14. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).

15. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 p.m. with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.

God Save the Queen!
 
Aa
God Save the Queen!
and the one who posted it
I cant believe you guys wasted almost entire page on this, its not EZ to stay focused I guess
nakelp86 is offline Find More Posts by nakelp86
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2011, 05:13 PM
Registered User
Worcestershire, England
Joined Nov 2007
481 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Here we go again with this but, put the nose on the floor & sight down the plane from the rear.....check & see if your Hor-Stab is perfectly aligned with the wings. Methinks you're gonna find the right side's low.
"Methinks" you are right StarHopper! From the rear the right-hand side of the tailplane is around 20mm lower than the left side!
As it slotted together i foolishly didn't worry about it being square
I feel the "Dremel's" going to be busy!
A few pictures to show the problem.


Hopefully that will sort out the problem. This site is sooo full of top dollar people!
Jam1e is offline Find More Posts by Jam1e
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2011, 05:21 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,617 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam1e View Post
"Methinks" you are right StarHopper! From the rear the right-hand side of the tailplane is around 20mm lower than the left side!
As it slotted together i foolishly didn't worry about it being square
I feel the "Dremel's" going to be busy!
A few pictures to show the problem.


Hopefully that will sort out the problem. This site is sooo full of top dollar people!
It looks like the left wing is down and right wing is up. The horizontal stab looks square to the fuselage. I'd shim the seat saddle.
Prof100 is online now Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Old Oct 30, 2011, 05:41 PM
Registered User
San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2006
1,280 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
LA,

It proves if you are gentle you can get extended flight times.
Yes, that was the idea.

Moreover, it proves you can get extended flight time with a 2835-3900KV motor and a normal battery.

A lot of people here have been complaining about that 3900KV motor having "too much power", and predicting very high battery drains and resulting short flights.

But today showed that if you throttle back and cruise, this motor really uses no more current than a less-powerful brushless motor, since the less-powerful motor has to be set at a higher throttle setting to achieve the same (fairly mellow) performance.

Only real difference between this 3900KV motor and, say, a 2000KV motor, is when you go to full power. The 3900KV motor then climbs vertically, which the 2000KV motor (with the same weight plane) can't. Of course, the 3900KV motor also uses a lot more current during the full-power vertical climb, than the 2000KV motor at its full-throttle setting.

If you spend your whole flight at full throttle, then of course the 3900KV motor will drain the battery VERY fast, a lot faster than the 2000KV motor. If you are a nothing-but-full-power flyer, then yes, the 3900KV is the wrong motor to put in a SkySurfer. But who spends the whole flight at full power, other than a pylon racer?

With the 3900KV motor and that 3-blade 6x4 prop, you have the choice between doing moderate climbs and stunts for a pretty long flight, and doing the occasional vertical climb and other crazy (and fun) flying. With the 2000KV motor, you don't have all those choices. You can do the same moderate climbs and stunts, but your throttle will be set higher, and you battery won't really last any longer. And full throttle WON'T get you a vertical climb, so you don't have that choice at all.

There's no such thing as "too much power" in a model plane - only too much weight (and the 3900KV doesn't weigh any more than the 2000KV), and too much current consumption. But that's what the left stick is for - throttle that baby back, and your flight times will be just as long as the other motor, and your performance will be just as good.

Except for that occasional vertical climb, which the 3900KV can do and the 2000KV can't (for the same weight plane).

Little-Acorn is offline Find More Posts by Little-Acorn
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2011, 05:42 PM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaled_abobakr View Post
Hi ..

I'm a beginner when it comes to choosing the proper power system ..and I suppose I'm stuck with the one I have and I really appreciate helping me getting the most out of it ...

Setup ...

My Bixler for FPV weights 1088g
Motor .. 2836-22 the purple one from headsuprc.com .. 2200kv

http://www.hobbywireless.com/cart/in...roducts_id=134

ESC Turnigy plush 40AMP

Current prop is pusher APC 6X4 EP

According to the test data from the motor page at headsuprc.com

Propeller test data for the 2836-22 with 3-cell Lipo battery:

EMP 6x3E: 24 oz of thrust @ 19 amps with a pitch speed of 52 mph.

APC 6 x 4E speed 400: 21 oz thrust @ 20 amps with a pitch speed of 68 mph.

Master Airscrew 6 x 4 x 3: 22 oz thrust @ 21 amps.

APC 6 x 5.5E: 20 oz thrust @ 23 amps with a pitch speed of 85 mph.

EMP 5 x 5E: 15 oz thrust @ 18 amps.


Please correct me

1-If everything is kept the same but I replaced the prop with a higher pitch prop .. I should get more thrust .. correct ??

2- If everything is kept the same but I replaced the prop with a larger diameter prop .. I should get more thrust .. correct ??

3- If everything is kept the same but I replaced the prop with a larger diameter and a higher pitch prop .. I should get more thrust .. correct ??

4- What is the difference between that 2200KV Inrunner and an equivalent 2200KV Outrunner of the same size (for the same model size )

I wonder why the test data is so confusing to me .. probably because of me .. not having the basic knowledge about how power system really work

Thanks a lot

Khaled
You're link does not point to anything of value. Please repost.
AJ
ajbaker is offline Find More Posts by ajbaker
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2011, 05:50 PM
Registered User
San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2006
1,280 Posts
The bad news? That Turnigy (HXT) 2835-3900KV motor is STILL backordered at HobbyKing.

(sigh)

But so are all the other 2835 motors.

Here's a similar-looking one, at another place, also in China. Looks physically the same as the HXT/Turnigy, and is described as a 2835-3900KV. But it's painted a different color, so who knows. But at least you can get this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/B2835-KV3900...item4aafcd8bf0
Little-Acorn is offline Find More Posts by Little-Acorn
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2011, 05:56 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,617 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
Yes, that was the idea.

Moreover, it proves you can get extended flight time with a 2835-3900KV motor and a normal battery.

A lot of people here have been complaining about that 3900KV motor having "too much power", and predicting very high battery drains and resulting short flights.

But today showed that if you throttle back and cruise, this motor really uses no more current than a less-powerful brushless motor, since the less-powerful motor has to be set at a higher throttle setting to achieve the same (fairly mellow) performance.

Only real difference between this 3900KV motor and, say, a 2000KV motor, is when you go to full power. The 3900KV motor then climbs vertically, which the 2000KV motor (with the same weight plane) can't. Of course, the 3900KV motor also uses a lot more current during the full-power vertical climb, than the 2000KV motor at its full-throttle setting.

If you spend your whole flight at full throttle, then of course the 3900KV motor will drain the battery VERY fast, a lot faster than the 2000KV motor. If you are a nothing-but-full-power flyer, then yes, the 3900KV is the wrong motor to put in a SkySurfer. But who spends the whole flight at full power, other than a pylon racer?

With the 3900KV motor and that 3-blade 6x4 prop, you have the choice between doing moderate climbs and stunts for a pretty long flight, and doing the occasional vertical climb and other crazy (and fun) flying. With the 2000KV motor, you don't have all those choices. You can do the same moderate climbs and stunts, but your throttle will be set higher, and you battery won't really last any longer. And full throttle WON'T get you a vertical climb, so you don't have that choice at all.

There's no such thing as "too much power" in a model plane - only too much weight (and the 3900KV doesn't weigh any more than the 2000KV), and too much current consumption. But that's what the left stick is for - throttle that baby back, and your flight times will be just as long as the other motor, and your performance will be just as good.

Except for that occasional vertical climb, which the 3900KV can do and the 2000KV can't (for the same weight plane).

Glad you like your choice of motors.
Prof100 is online now Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Old Oct 30, 2011, 05:57 PM
There's magic in those wings !
khaled_abobakr's Avatar
Joined Nov 2006
4,848 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
You're link does not point to anything of value. Please repost.
AJ

sorry I meant that link to the motor from headsuprc.com

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...s-Motor/Detail

Khaled
khaled_abobakr is offline Find More Posts by khaled_abobakr
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2011, 06:02 PM
There's magic in those wings !
khaled_abobakr's Avatar
Joined Nov 2006
4,848 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
See in bold above.
Hi ..

Thanks a lot for responding ... but I think I'm confusing the speed with the thrust,, I thought both are the same thing ..

I used to think " wow this plane is so fast, it must have a lot of thrust (speed)" so I used to consider them one thing ..

I really appreciate you clarify this ....

Thanks a lot for your time

Khaled
khaled_abobakr is offline Find More Posts by khaled_abobakr
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2011, 06:04 PM
Registered User
San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2006
1,280 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
I flew the SkySurfer again today, with an eye toward seeing how long the batteries would last with this 2835-3900KV motor with the 3-blade Master Airscrew 6x4 prop. Used a 3s 11.1V 2200mAh GensAce LiPo battery.

Launched it at about half throttle, and it climbed out nicely. Did a few full-power vertical climbs (10-15 seconds each), and spent the rest of the tim exactly at half throttle, which lets it climb at a moderate pace. I'd circle around, letting the plane climb, then do some medium loops and rolls to bleed off the altitude. Lather, rinse, repeat as needed. Finally throttled back to zero, glided in and landed, 26 minutes after launch. The battery still seemed to have good power.

Put the battery on charge, and it showed a voltage of 11.07V, which say to me it was wquite a bit depleted. Maybe 3/4 down or more? I'm charging it at a 1 amp rate, which is pretty gentle for a 2200mAh R/C LiPo.

So I got 26 minutes out of this 2200mAh 3s LiPo, with that motor and prop, with gentle-to-medium flying with a few full-power climbs thrown in.

Anybody still think a 2835 3900KV motor is a current hog?
BTW, I recharged the 2200mAh 3s LiPo battery after that flight, setting my charger to a 1-amp charge current. That's a comparatively mellow charge for an RC LiPo battery. If the battery were completely flat (this one wasn't), it would probably take 2-1/2 to 3 hours to recharge fully, since batteries aren't 100% efficient and LiPo chargers taper off the current for the last few minutes of charging.

This one took 109 minutes to fully recharge. So I'd guess it was about 2/3 discharged by that 26-minute flight. Is it reasonable to expect that I could have gotten a 30-minute flight with this motor and battery, before hitting the low-voltage cutoff?

Not bad, anyway.

(BTW, don't ever "fully discharge" a LiPo battery. You'll probably ruin the battery, and might see some interesting fireworks to boot)
Little-Acorn is offline Find More Posts by Little-Acorn
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2011, 06:07 PM
Registered User
Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,617 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaled_abobakr View Post
Hi ..

Thanks a lot for responding ... but I think I'm confusing the speed with the thrust,, I thought both are the same thing ..

I used to think " wow this plane is so fast, it must have a lot of thrust (speed)" so I used to consider them one thing ..

I really appreciate you clarify this ....

Thanks a lot for your time

Khaled
Here is a helpful link:
http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/propeller-size.html
Prof100 is online now Find More Posts by Prof100
RCG Plus Member
Old Oct 30, 2011, 06:12 PM
FPV ADDICT
Wirewolf903's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Jan 2011
562 Posts
Yet another great flight with my good old SkySurfer V1! I love flaps, it looks like the videos in slow motion. Little to no wind during the flight and this plane just hangs in the air.
SkySurfer FPV Flight At Texas Sunset (8 min 7 sec)
Wirewolf903 is offline Find More Posts by Wirewolf903
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale Cyber Sky Parachute (Sky Surfer) shv2sail Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 6 May 28, 2013 03:14 AM
Discussion Sky Surfer nickwayne11c Electric Plane Talk 15 Nov 18, 2011 03:36 PM
Discussion Banana Hobby Sky Surfer Problems cavy92 Electric Plane Talk 56 Nov 02, 2010 03:49 AM
Question Sky Surfer LiPo mod, help... Freight Dog Power Systems 0 Aug 17, 2006 02:45 PM
Swashplate Assembly with Center Ball; is this the swash with ball mod i want? tekforce Micro Helis 4 Feb 08, 2004 06:28 PM