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Old Sep 11, 2011, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
I would kindly disagree there, in part. Down thrust built into the nacelle, yes - and I believe endemic to the species....but side thrust, no. The nacelle has little to naught to do with side alignment - that's almost entirely motor mount positioning.

I believe that side-alignment is more happenstance and depends almost entirely upon the sloppiness of the assemblers at the factory. I'd hazard they squirt in some hot glue, plop a pre-assembled motor-&-mount into the glop with barely a glance towards alignment & move on to the next one, leaving the motor assembly to settle and cure wherever fortune leads it.

At least, I can tell you my Bix with a 15" ruler laid along the hull seam falls almost exactly along the entire protruding motor shaft and the corresponding trailing seam along the fuselage top, below. If there's any side thrust, it's less than a degree......and I'll note she flies straight without a notch of side trim required.

And I realize I might be in the distinct minority with that....but I got one of the lucky ones.
Honest! I put it together and had the chance to lay the motor into the opposite halves of the nacelle before glueing the two halves together. The cavity for the motor is considerably shallower at the front in the right half and deeper at the front in the left half. As you can see in the first photo the shaft is on center at the rear, but the second photo, from the front, shows that the shaft is considerably to the left of the nacelle's centerline. It is above that red arc, at the center of the circle that arc is part of. In the third photo you can even see that the foam that locates the front of the motor, and the attached disks, extends right past the side of the cooling hole. This photo shows that the disks are directly in line with and extend the cylinder of the motor and locate it for and aft.

If the standard motor, or one the same size, is properly mounted in the cavity there is no way it can be at anything other than the angle shown in the first photo. I can't explain how the pre-assembled Bixlers would not have the same angle unless, as you suggest, the folks putting them together are really not very careful.

Now I expect you to go take yours apart right now. You will see that the side thrust really is designed in. I'll wait.

I'm kidding! But only about taking your's apart.

Gord
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rcg2020 View Post
Will the clone Spektrum AR6100e receiver from Targethobby work with this plane or do I need the full range receiver?
I have used both the clone Spektrum AR6100e from TargetHobby and the
Orange receivers from HobbyKing in this plane for months without any problems. I ground tested a "real" AR6100e against the clone 6100e and the clone beat the real 6100e by a good 100 feet. I was skeptical of the results, so performed the same test using 2nd real 6100e and a 2nd clone and got almost identical results. They work for me, and at $3.99 ea. they are a bargain.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 04:55 AM
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United States, NC, Richlands
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[QUOTE=Ole Joe;19281817]
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
I would kindly disagree there, in part. Down thrust built into the nacelle, yes - and I believe endemic to the species....but side thrust, no. The nacelle has little to naught to do with side alignment - that's almost entirely motor mount positioning.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The nacelle has "everything" to do with the alignment of the motor if it is installed correctly. I've have both a version 1 and 2 fuselage sitting in front of me and it is obvious to the most casual observer that the motor should have both down and side thrust due to the way the foam mounting lands internal to the nacelle are molded. I've also got both a Turnigy 2835 (inrunner) and the standard BL motor which comes with the SS. It is possible to install the standard BL motor which comes with the SS to have no side thrust due to the way the plywood motor mount is made. Matter of fact, you can rotate it in the nacelle to have either right or left thrust. If the 2835 is slipped into the nacelle it will definitely have side thrust to the left, (viewing from the back side of the prop) no matter how you rotate it in either version 1or 2 fuselage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe that side-alignment is more happenstance and depends almost entirely upon the sloppiness of the assemblers at the factory. I'd hazard they squirt in some hot glue, plop a pre-assembled motor-&-mount into the glop with barely a glance towards alignment & move on to the next one, leaving the motor assembly to settle and cure wherever fortune leads it.

At least, I can tell you my Bix with a 15" ruler laid along the hull seam falls almost exactly along the entire protruding motor shaft and the corresponding trailing seam along the fuselage top, below. If there's any side thrust, it's less than a degree......and I'll note she flies straight without a notch of side trim required.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

You got one that was assembled wrong but still flys OK, consider yourself lucky.
Then I bow to the man with the superior intelligence......and my straight-mounted, straight-&-level-flying-at-half-throttle-with-hands-off Bixler is the freak.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 05:52 AM
There's magic in those wings !
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Joined Nov 2006
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Thanks a lot to all of you guys .. I really appreciate it .. I'm sure mine have built in side thrust due to the foam inside the nacelle.. it is formed that way ..

Anmd yes my motor is the one from headsuprc with an APC 6X4 EP (pusher prop) ... good eyes

Thanks again .. I hope mine flies straight and level hands free at half throttle too

Khaled
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Down thrust built into the nacelle, yes - and I believe endemic to the species....but side thrust, no.
As I mentioned earlier I have two ARF (motor installed) ones. One is from HK and one is from RCAVIONIX. No side thrust on either of them. Are photo needed?
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 07:05 AM
Parts of it still up a tree!
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[QUOTE=StarHopper44;19283933]
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Originally Posted by Ole Joe View Post

Then I bow to the man with the superior intelligence......and my straight-mounted, straight-&-level-flying-at-half-throttle-with-hands-off Bixler is the freak.
Received my PNF Bixler last week, put it together on Saturday morning, stock build except for the wing mod, CF rod in the fuselage (will do control horn mod this week). First flight in moderate wind, hands off, straight and level flight at half throttle was very satisfying. I love this plane!

Mark
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 11:59 AM
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Originally Posted by ua3xds View Post
As I mentioned earlier I have two ARF (motor installed) ones. One is from HK and one is from RCAVIONIX. No side thrust on either of them. Are photo needed?
Well, if pictures are what it takes, I'll show ya mine if ya show me yours! *LOL*

In the 1st one, I scribed a blue line (in Paint) along the nacelle seam & the trailing fuse seam....as you can see, the motor shaft rides pretty precisely along this line.

2d- a horizontal shot taken with a little better lighting; showing basically the same thing right on thru the prop adapter tip.

And the last one, an end-on view. Note the motor doesn't even touch the 'lands' molded in. In fact, the very first time I fired the motor up (without a prop) a half-postage stamp sized chunk of foam that looked like it was sliced off flew out & I didn't know where it came from until later. If you'll note the missing land down at the 7 o'clock position behind the prop blade....that's where. Motor's obviously not touching that one either.

From some of the things we've read in here, I kind'a think Ol' Joe is right. To get one that flies straight & true first outing, it's gotta be a freak.

I'll just say this. If & when I replace this Bix's motor, I know how I'm gonna mount it!
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 12:04 PM
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United States, NY, Wolcott
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
From some of the things we've read in here, I kind'a think Ol' Joe is right. To get one that flies straight & true first outing, it's gotta be a freak.

I'll just say this. If & when I replace this Bix's motor, I know how I'm gonna mount it!
Mine flew fine first flight and it has the motor at an angle. If I replace it I will do something along these lines (with my own slant on things of course) -

Motor mounting

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Old Sep 11, 2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Well, if pictures are what it takes, I'll show ya mine if ya show me yours! *LOL*

In the 1st one, I scribed a blue line (in Paint) along the nacelle seam & the trailing fuse seam....as you can see, the motor shaft rides pretty precisely along this line.

2d- a horizontal shot taken with a little better lighting; showing basically the same thing right on thru the prop adapter tip.

And the last one, an end-on view. Note the motor doesn't even touch the 'lands' molded in. In fact, the very first time I fired the motor up (without a prop) a half-postage stamp sized chunk of foam that looked like it was sliced off flew out & I didn't know where it came from until later. If you'll note the missing land down at the 7 o'clock position behind the prop blade....that's where. Motor's obviously not touching that one either.

From some of the things we've read in here, I kind'a think Ol' Joe is right. To get one that flies straight & true first outing, it's gotta be a freak.

I'll just say this. If & when I replace this Bix's motor, I know how I'm gonna mount it!
I think we have just discovered a real difference between the kits (and likely the older inrunner versions of the ARF) and the newer outrunner ARF versions. They probably discovered that the sidethrust was real inconvenient when mounting the outrunner and didn't make much difference in the planes flight anyway. Mine flies straight too, even with the prop at that whacked looking angle. Guess it just doesn't matter.

Gord
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 01:49 PM
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Thrust angle.

My Sky Surfer V2 stock brushless outrunner motor is mounted with zero side thrust. It flies fine.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by garymcc View Post
My Sky Surfer V2 stock brushless outrunner motor is mounted with zero side thrust. It flies fine.
And my ARF Bix's factory installed motor HAS side thrust and flies fine. I think it's a stable enough airframe that a few degrees of side thrust don't matter that much.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 02:11 PM
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United States, NY, Wolcott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garymcc View Post
My Sky Surfer V2 stock brushless outrunner motor is mounted with zero side thrust. It flies fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
And my ARF Bix's factory installed motor HAS side thrust and flies fine. I think it's a stable enough airframe that a few degrees of side thrust don't matter that much.
I think that what engineers work out on paper may look really good but in the real world just doesn't work out sometimes.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 02:15 PM
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[QUOTE=StarHopper44;19285765]Well, if pictures are what it takes, I'll show ya mine if ya show me yours! *LOL*

And the last one, an end-on view. Note the motor doesn't even touch the 'lands' molded in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course the motor doesn't touch the lands molded in. If it touched it would
impede the rotation of the motor bell an likely cause a reduction in RPM and
an increase in motor current. I suspect that it was noticed at the factory
and they cut the land at the 7 o'clock position away so there would be no
interference. If it would have been assembled correctly, it would have cleared
that land. Like I stated earlier, the BL motor with ply motor mount can be
positioned in the nacelle to be neutral, like yours, or rotated to have
either left or right offset. If installed correctly, the motor shaft will be offset
to the left, as viewed from the front.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll just say this. If & when I replace this Bix's motor, I know how I'm gonna mount it!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully you'll install it correctly as designed. That offset is built-in to
counter the torque of the motor just like in a tractor setup. Your
plane may fly straight and true as is, but you may experience some
roll, due to motor torque, when, and you will, get yourself into a bad flight sitution.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 06:41 PM
Why so serious?
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United States, FL, Cape Coral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordks View Post
I think we have just discovered a real difference between the kits (and likely the older inrunner versions of the ARF) and the newer outrunner ARF versions. They probably discovered that the sidethrust was real inconvenient when mounting the outrunner and didn't make much difference in the planes flight anyway. Mine flies straight too, even with the prop at that whacked looking angle. Guess it just doesn't matter.

Gord
After flying many pusher type models I can say side thrust is not a factor on this type set up. The angle up and down is. Make it too flat and the nose will always dive under power, too much up and it will elevate. Depends on where the thrust line is going through the COG and is relative to the wings angle of attack. The way the plane was designed determines where the center point of the thrust needs to be. By increasing the motors power often causes the plane to elevate on throttle up and we compensate with either trim or down elevator. A example is a FireBird Commander. It's a 2 channel pusher with throttle and rudder. (V Tail actually). It's designed for its weak brushed motor. Accelerate and it goes up, no throttle it goes down. Put a stronger motor on it and all it will do is loop every time you try to go faster. This is due to the wings angle and thrust line designed into the plane.
If side thrust was critical on our SS or Ez's then those using pusher props would have a problem since they need to reverse the motors rotation. On a tractor set up like the Super Cub, it is necessary and the amount varies depending on motor power and speed.
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Old Sep 11, 2011, 07:23 PM
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replacement motor

my canopy has come off during the last 3 launches after about 100 flights ( don't know whats going on. but as a result my motor shaft is bent so I need a replacement motor. Banana hobby wants $25 plus $15 shipping for $40 total!!. can I get a comparable motor somewhere else cheaper??
thanks
Paul
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