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Old Sep 01, 2011, 10:46 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theothercliff View Post
Stock motor has plenty of power, but won't go straight up. ...
I'll tell ya what.....did you watch my Flight #2 video (behind the Maiden) where the only change was to swap the stock prop out for the 6x4E? (Did change LiPo's, but it was an identical 2200mAh) To specifically test for power; asked Sensei Mike to bring 'er by low & slow then go vertical....and that suckah went straight up (or close enuff to it!) to near out of sight!! Twice! Note my comment, "That's about as vertical as anybody'd ever need". That was the stock 1900kv motor.


Quote:
I vote for using the stock motor to start with and deciding from there if and how much more you need.

Cliff
Now that's a good thought right there - couldn't agree more.
Let me add a couple others. A part of my "how to shop for" query involves how to choose a good hot (but not over-hot) motor IF someone should want one....and also how to determine a good replacement motor for when the stocker expires for whatever reason - working around the fact either vendors are constantly out of the most popular motors, or got 'em becuz their price is so high nobody's buying them. Plus, how to maybe find a smaller 'trainer' motor should one want to go that way.

I've already seen & well exemplified, you can do a LOT just by changing props. About the only downside there is, the available choices are somewhat limited, plus possibility of damaging your 'stuff' if you put the wrong one on & toss it into the wind w/o metering first - as most noobs wouldn't have such.

AFA 'training' purposes, I plan to just use the stock 5x3 prop, exactly as Mike prescribed. I don't agree with the "lousy prop, just toss it" some have recommended - it just needs some serious balancing (provided both blades are pretty close to the same orbital plane) and mine was balanced (by me, not the mfr!) about as well as it could be. When I 'release' it on the balancer, there's only 1 or 2 points where it'll move a couple mm's - and it doesn't move every time. I think that's one major factor behind my Bix's relative quietness as I commented in the Maiden video....and as well evidenced therein, the 5x3 does fly the Bix, and flies it well if I do say so myself! Plus, the ESC didn't melt!
(It did on the perfectly balanced 6x4).
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 10:47 AM
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United States, CA, Sebastopol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
P.S. Make sure you get the plane flying perfectly BEFORE you add ANY FPV stuff at all. Then, use a block of wood with washers glued on it (so the weight will be exactly the same as all you FPV equipment) to be a "dummy" camera and FPV stuff BEFORE you use the real stuff. This procedure might save you some big $$$.
Got it about the additional weight thing. Thanks. I AM getting it to fly first. I maidened it in pretty high winds and the wings flapped enough that I took the strengthening seriously and ordered cf strips and rods. I'm almost done with that. I'll probably try it again this afternoon.

Your idea of weighing it down with a dummy load is brilliant. I'll do that after I get it to fly with the reinforcements. Thanks.

I bought the ARF version and the stock motor provides over 1:1 thrust/weight with a 2200mAh LiPo. I was very surprised. I would think this would be more than adequate for the task at hand, but I see people putting more powerful motor/prop combos in. Is that really necessary?

EDIT: Just read the post above. Guess others have the same reaction to the stock power.
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:07 AM
The figure "9" Specialist
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A Barrier Island in New Jersey, USA
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
I'll tell ya what.....did you watch my Flight #2 video (behind the Maiden) where the only change was to swap the stock prop out for the 6x4E? (Did change LiPo's, but it was an identical 2200mAh) To specifically test for power; asked Sensei Mike to bring 'er by low & slow then go vertical....and that suckah went straight up (or close enuff to it!) to near out of sight!! Twice! Note my comment, "That's about as vertical as anybody'd ever need". That was the stock 1900kv motor.



Now that's a good thought right there - couldn't agree more.
Let me add a couple others. A part of my "how to shop for" query involves how to choose a good hot (but not over-hot) motor IF someone should want one....and also how to determine a good replacement motor for when the stocker expires for whatever reason - working around the fact either vendors are constantly out of the most popular motors, or got 'em becuz their price is so high nobody's buying them. Plus, how to maybe find a smaller 'trainer' motor should one want to go that way.

I've already seen & well exemplified, you can do a LOT just by changing props. About the only downside there is, the available choices are somewhat limited, plus possibility of damaging your 'stuff' if you put the wrong one on & toss it into the wind w/o metering first - as most noobs wouldn't have such.

AFA 'training' purposes, I plan to just use the stock 5x3 prop, exactly as Mike prescribed. I don't agree with the "lousy prop, just toss it" some have recommended - it just needs some serious balancing (provided both blades are pretty close to the same orbital plane) and mine was balanced (by me, not the mfr!) about as well as it could be. When I 'release' it on the balancer, there's only 1 or 2 points where it'll move a couple mm's - and it doesn't move every time. I think that's one major factor behind my Bix's relative quietness as I commented in the Maiden video....and as well evidenced therein, the 5x3 does fly the Bix, and flies it well if I do say so myself! Plus, the ESC didn't melt!
(It did on the perfectly balanced 6x4).
I agree with you on the stock prop. After balancing (something I always do - well, except once) I have no complaints at all with the stock prop. I do have some APC 6x4's but like the way it flies just the way it is. Also, no problems (yet) with the ESC but I do plan on putting in some plastic-spoon vents. There's no such thing as having too much air flowing over those cheapie electonics.

Aeronca
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Why don't I try a little experiment? I have the EagleTree e-logger with most of the sensors and junk so here's what I plan on doing.
Measure current, voltage, power, temp within fuse, temp of the ESC, temp of the battery, servo current (on the ESC connection as that will give the current the BEC provides).
Take all the parameters for these cases all on a stock RTF SS with carbon reinforcements:
Stock prop
$1 e-Bay 6x4 prop
APC 6x4 pusher prop

Then I'll do the same with an external BEC plugged in.
If the temps show fairly high, then I'll consider doing a test with the scoops but I don't really want to cut into mine just yet. Maybe I'll be convinced if the UBEC version shows high temps.

It should be fun to see how that all plays out. I'll try to be as consistent as I can be on the factors like battery used, type of flying, initial temp within the fuse/at ESC.

Looks like weather is coming in on the weekend and I have company in town the next three weekends so it may be a bit for me to get it all done but I'll see what I come up with. It may be on multiple evenings but as long as the air temp and winds are roughly equivalent, it should be consistent.
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:27 AM
The figure "9" Specialist
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Originally Posted by healthyfatboy View Post
Why don't I try a little experiment? I have the EagleTree e-logger with most of the sensors and junk so here's what I plan on doing.
Measure current, voltage, power, temp within fuse, temp of the ESC, temp of the battery, servo current (on the ESC connection as that will give the current the BEC provides).
Take all the parameters for these cases all on a stock RTF SS with carbon reinforcements:
Stock prop
$1 e-Bay 6x4 prop
APC 6x4 pusher prop

Then I'll do the same with an external BEC plugged in.
If the temps show fairly high, then I'll consider doing a test with the scoops but I don't really want to cut into mine just yet. Maybe I'll be convinced if the UBEC version shows high temps.

It should be fun to see how that all plays out. I'll try to be as consistent as I can be on the factors like battery used, type of flying, initial temp within the fuse/at ESC.

Looks like weather is coming in on the weekend and I have company in town the next three weekends so it may be a bit for me to get it all done but I'll see what I come up with. It may be on multiple evenings but as long as the air temp and winds are roughly equivalent, it should be consistent.
WOW! - that would be fantastic, healthyfatboy! There's nothing like hard data for making informed decisions.

I wait with baited breath!

Aeronca
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:32 AM
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Ok. Now that I understand what you are asking, the answer is clearer. The 1800kv motor that flypoppa is using is just fine. It probably has about the same power (or slightly less) as the stock brushless motor. BTW- The stock BL motor is 2000kv. Ultimately, an 1800-2200-kv will all work on this plane with a 6x4 (or perhaps 6x5 for an 1800kv). I would suggest that you try any of the above and find out what suits your flying the best. Obviously, the motor that flypoppa is using is perfect for "his" flying needs. My suggestion above is to help you find yours....
Because we are so limited in our prop choices, the simple guideline (guideline ONLY - not rule) is that the higher the Kv, the faster the plane. Still, I strongly recommend that you have a watt meter (if you can find one somewhere in stock) before you go further so you can avoid a small to catastrophic failure.
AJ
See my post #8071 above, made prior to reading this one of yours, in response to Cliff's even earlier post - re props. Great minds think alike? *LMBO*
And man do I ever want one of those Watt meters! Right up my alley but, money's kind'a tight & for now it's just on my wish list - at the top, tho.
Plus, now I've got that dang Messerschmitt to feed & care for. Gave everything the dry-fit & don't worry about our SS/Bix's, guys....the build's just as atrocious. Landing gear's not 'square'; & both gear covers about 1/4" off (can't seat in wing sockets)....decals about as bubbly as un-done pancake batter .... one rudder pushrod (pull-pull for the steerable tailwheel) is 1/2" longer'n the other. I'll prolly have a list as long as our Page 1 here by time it's all done. That good ol' Chinese kwality!!

I'll give 'em this tho....they give a pretty nice Instruction Manual (20 pages), even if some "See Figure #" references point to a completely wrong picture, or to pics that don't exist. *LOL* And even a separate Quick Start Guide.
And that big fat honkin' 3-blade prop is just plain SECTSY!!!
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
...Gave everything the dry-fit & don't worry about our SS/Bix's, guys....the build's just as atrocious. Landing gear's not 'square'; & both gear covers about 1/4" off (can't seat in wing sockets)....decals about as bubbly as un-done pancake batter .... one rudder pushrod (pull-pull for the steerable tailwheel) is 1/2" longer'n the other. I'll prolly have a list as long as our Page 1 here by time it's all done. That good ol' Chinese kwality!!

I'll give 'em this tho....they give a pretty nice Instruction Manual (20 pages), even if some "See Figure #" references point to a completely wrong picture, or to pics that don't exist. *LOL* And even a separate Quick Start Guide.
And that big fat honkin' 3-blade prop is just plain SECTSY!!!
YAY! They're bring kits back!!

Aeronca
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by aeronca View Post
There's no such thing as having too much air flowing over those cheapie electonics.
Uh.... actually... there is: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=7058

Hahahaha.... well, at least it flies fine...
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 11:54 AM
The figure "9" Specialist
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Uh.... actually... there is: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=7058

Hahahaha.... well, at least it flies fine...
Hey, Ma! "How come my plane loops on hand launch?"

Ya' got me, but I wasn't speaking aerodynamically - just from a "keep it cool" perspective.

Aeronca
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by scott page View Post
...I'm kinda excited to finish it. This is my third night plane.
Hey Scotty;
Our club's gonna be having a night fly-in soon -- why don't you come visit us down east NC & bring yer stuff! I'll buy ya a beer or six....to make it worth your while.
(Yes, me too wantin' to see it. And remember, "No video, it din't happen!
Post a warning first, so's I can don my welding helmet, K?
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 12:17 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
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Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
...3. BEC ratings of ESC's are always lower than advertised. Many times they will handle 30-50% lower amps than stated.
...AJ
Wow. Now THAT's an eye opener right there! Never dreamed they were that far off.
Well, forget ordering the 25A Red Brick I just received notification HK's got back in stock! I think I'll be going to 30A min or maybe 40 & just work off that as a standard.
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post

...........

And man do I ever want one of those Watt meters! Right up my alley but, money's kind'a tight & for now it's just on my wish list - at the top, tho.

..........................
No rush Starhopper. Unless things have changed in the last day, it is backordered, as it has been for many months. Unfortunately, the only thing I can find with similar features, the Watt's Up, is twice the price and doesn't even have the backlight that the Turnigy meter has. That backlight is a very nice feature. The Watt's Up can be kind of hard to read when you are trying to avoid a spinning prop. The Watt's Up is a slightly smaller and lighter, but I just can't see paying twice as much for it. I got mine over a year back only because I needed it then and it was in stock at my LHS.

Gord
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 12:35 PM
Specializing in RC since 1972
Temple, GA, USA
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
...
I bought the ARF version and the stock motor provides over 1:1 thrust/weight with a 2200mAh LiPo.
...
If that is with a stock prop, it is way more than mine.

Does the motor center behind the prop get too hot to touch 15 seconds after a 15 second WOT run on the ground?

Cliff
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Brucethart View Post
After reading all the above posts I ended up buying this motor:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....E:L:OC:AU:1123

Thought I'd give it a try/experiment.
What do you think?

Not sure of all the dimensions so not sure how to mount yet.
Mind you still have to go and buy the plane first...
That motor is popular also. Given your skills and experience, I am sure you won't have any problems at all. Don't use anything larger than a 6x4E on that motor. Also, I suggest that you get a watt meter to avoid burning up LiPo's, motors, ESC's, etc. HERE is the one I recommend (if you can find the doggone thing anywhere).
AJ
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gordks View Post
No rush Starhopper. Unless things have changed in the last day, it is backordered, as it has been for many months. Unfortunately, the only thing I can find with similar features, the Watt's Up, is twice the price and doesn't even have the backlight that the Turnigy meter has. That backlight is a very nice feature. The Watt's Up can be kind of hard to read when you are trying to avoid a spinning prop. The Watt's Up is a slightly smaller and lighter, but I just can't see paying twice as much for it. I got mine over a year back only because I needed it then and it was in stock at my LHS.

Gord
HERE is one that is the same as the Turnigy and its available! I have it, I use it, I like it!
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