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Old Aug 18, 2010, 09:01 PM
Just Me
United States, OR, Salem
Joined Apr 2006
873 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Brner,

Beautiful explanation. Thanks.

Bill

Thanks Bill....To really appreciate what Crow can do, you have to see it in action. As stated above, I happen to have been lucky enough to see Dodgson in a contest or two and always marveled what he was able to do with a mechanical linkage. That linkage was also included in some of his kits. Bob was an innovator for sure.

Now this may be off topic but, I think he was the first to introduce fully sheeted foam wings to the glider market......the ships he designed and kitted are still capable of winning performances.
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 09:47 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,648 Posts
Maiden flight

Today was beautiful day for leaving work a bit early. Temperature was in the high 70's, low humidity and blue skys. The only drawback was my wife borrowed my van for shopping and my F350 Crew Cab is loaded for a trip. So, I was left to driving my wife's Focus. It's a hatchback so I could load in two planes, tools, full size car battery for charging and my TX case. Tonight was trainer night but I got to the field by 4 PM so I was able to fly a couple of planes. Since it was trainer night I brought a high wing electric trainer and my brand new Skysurfer with 2200 KV HeadsupRC inrunner and 32 amp esc.

Preflight I do a range check. All looks good so I go to the flight line and power up and give the plane a toss. Bang. it goes up and away at 20 degree angle and then it noses down right into the grass with full up elevator. No damage, the CF and Extreme tape on the bottom works wonders. You have to love this type of foam.

THE GOOD NEWS
So, I go back and adjust the clevises for more throw on the elevator. I recheck the CG and it's at about 70 mm using the two finger method. OK, this time I try taking off on the ground because it can't crash into the ground if it's on the ground . The Skysurfer takes right off and requires a bit of left aileron and a little up elevator for level flight at half throttle. The plane flies great. The rolls, even with high rates, are a bit slow, but it is a glider so I am not upset. Inverted flight requires very little down elevator to fly level. What a great flyer! I let another club member fly it and he's a very good flyer. I tell him to bring it in but I ask him to fly to me so I can catch it. I do catch it. Very cool.

After three packs I park the Skysurfer and fly my other plane. A few flights of that plane and it's time to go back to the SS.

The BAD NEWS
I power up with a fresh pack and hand launch. The plane goes straight vertical and I have to give full down elevator to prevent it from looping and crashing. Once level I pull the power back to half throttle and the Skysurfer is cruising beautifully. I go to wide open and the plane wants to do a square loop. I force it level and it keeps wanting to climb, I force it down. The wings are flapping up and down like a seagull. I pull back the throttle and land the plane. I check the rubber bands that retain the wing. They're fine, but I add two more in case they aren't staying put. I fly again, and the same thing happens -- square loops and wings flapping. They guys in the pits are laughing. I land the Skysurfer and ask the hecklers to help solve the problem. We do a range check and all looks good. We try it with full power and all of a sudden we see the problem. The elevator servo is deflecting in the up direction. That is, full power = half to full up elevator. That will make it climb and loop. We start laughing about how the Spektrum receiver is not supposed to respond to RFI. And, it doesn't. Here is the problem. The elevator servo pot is dirty or bad. With the power off I cycle the elevator servo back and forth to clean the pot (it's worked in the past). Try again and it still goes up but not as much. I reach inside the fuselage and put my thumb on the elevator servo and power up. The elevator servo behaves normally. I release my thumb and it goes into the up position again. Root cause identified -- servo pot is bad. The servo is junk. Time to replace the servos in the plane.

Let's see now, the tally is motor with bad leads or esc. One servo is defective. All servos are suspect. I think the first flight where it dove to the ground might have been caused by the bad pot in the elevator servo.

Do I want replacements from Banana Hobby? No. Lesson learned is do not buy the RTF with junk electronics. Always buy the ARF.

Bill
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 01:47 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
THE GOOD NEWS
So, I go back and adjust the clevises for more throw on the elevator. I recheck the CG and it's at about 70 mm using the two finger method. OK, this time I try taking off on the ground because it can't crash into the ground if it's on the ground . The Skysurfer takes right off and requires a bit of left aileron and a little up elevator for level flight at half throttle. The plane flies great. The rolls, even with high rates, are a bit slow, but it is a glider so I am not upset. Inverted flight requires very little down elevator to fly level. What a great flyer! I let another club member fly it and he's a very good flyer. I tell him to bring it in but I ask him to fly to me so I can catch it. I do catch it. Very cool.

After three packs I park the Skysurfer and fly my other plane. A few flights of that plane and it's time to go back to the SS.
Lesson learned is do not buy the RTF with junk electronics. Always buy the ARF.

Bill
Yup. That is exactly the reason that I bought 3 ARF's. Well, 2 real ARF's and one kit of just foam parts (still waiting for the wings to be available).
But, I am very happy that all the problems were caused by something other than pilot error. It seems that a few other folks have had problems with the servos also. Is that true, guys? Are any of you other folks having servo problems, too? I guess I have been exceedingly lucky. I have over 200+ flights on mine with only one servo failure and that happened before I even got a chance to maiden it.
BTW-Where are the videos? You know the saying - "If it isn't on video, it didn't happen"
AJ
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 04:43 AM
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Everyday you learn something New.. Thanks Prof100
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 07:23 AM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Yup. That is exactly the reason that I bought 3 ARF's. Well, 2 real ARF's and one kit of just foam parts (still waiting for the wings to be available).
But, I am very happy that all the problems were caused by something other than pilot error. It seems that a few other folks have had problems with the servos also. Is that true, guys? Are any of you other folks having servo problems, too? I guess I have been exceedingly lucky. I have over 200+ flights on mine with only one servo failure and that happened before I even got a chance to maiden it.
BTW-Where are the videos? You know the saying - "If it isn't on video, it didn't happen"
AJ

AJ,

Two new servos were installed in the fuselage (HXT 900). All is good now. I tested it last night and no elevator servo problems.

The bad electronics surprise me because of how many J-Power F4N EDF jets we had at our club that flew trouble free. There were NO electronic problems. (J Power makes the Skysurfer). I will have to send an email to Jalin (the J in J Power).

Video was not in the cards yesterday. The late afternoon fun fly was unplanned. My wife had my van. The van has my flying club membership car which we must post on the frequency board. The van also had my sunglasses and hat cam hat. So my impromptu maiden flight was sans video capability.

Again, I must say how impressed I am with Skysurfer airframe. The Harbor Freight Wild Hawk is not even close. The Skysurfer flies great even with the heavier inrunner and 2200 3S 30C pack. However, I think one more modification is in order. The wings really do flap around even with the enhanced carbon fiber spar. A strip of 3M Extreme tape needs to be added to the bottom of the wing from wingtip to root. I know it will only help on inside loops or pulling out of a dive but geeze, seeing the wings flap up and down during the servo pot problem was a real eye opener.

Bill
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 09:31 AM
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Mississauga, Ontario
Joined Apr 2010
119 Posts
interesting, now that you mention this is from J Power, checked out their website. Looks like they offer a better canopy:



Link to the rest of it with more decals on the wings:
http://www.jpower.hk/Sky%20Surfer%20Glider.html
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 12:17 PM
Addicted To Flying Foam
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United States, NE, Bennington
Joined Jan 2010
4,691 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoR View Post
interesting, now that you mention this is from J Power, checked out their website. Looks like they offer a better canopy:

Link to the rest of it with more decals on the wings:
http://www.jpower.hk/Sky%20Surfer%20Glider.html
That is cool canopy with a pilot in it! I wonder why BH doesn't offer that in their spare parts arsenal.
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 10:34 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Refund received for brushless upgrade

Banana Hobby refunded me the cost of the brushless upgrade. I received the Paypal refund a few minutes ago. That was first class customer service response. I notified them on Monday and documented the problem and by Thursday I received by refund.

Lauren at Banana Hobby was the customer service rep.

I don't expect anything for the faulty servot pot in the elevator servo. A $3 servo doesn't have any QC so stinkers will be put in planes. I was lucky enough to not crash and diagnose the problem.

Bill
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 11:26 PM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
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BH and video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Banana Hobby refunded me the cost of the brushless upgrade. I received the Paypal refund a few minutes ago. That was first class customer service response. I notified them on Monday and documented the problem and by Thursday I received by refund.

Lauren at Banana Hobby was the customer service rep.

I don't expect anything for the faulty servot pot in the elevator servo. A $3 servo doesn't have any QC so stinkers will be put in planes. I was lucky enough to not crash and diagnose the problem.

Bill
Thanks for the report on the refund. I know BH is trying hard to improve their reputation and your report shows that they are succeeding - one customer at a time. I sure hope it continues. Meanwhile, as time permits, get a video of that rascal flying. I know we all like to see videos of the SkyS.
AJ
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Old Aug 19, 2010, 11:45 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Thanks for the report on the refund. I know BH is trying hard to improve their reputation and your report shows that they are succeeding - one customer at a time. I sure hope it continues. Meanwhile, as time permits, get a video of that rascal flying. I know we all like to see videos of the SkyS.
AJ
AJ,

No video this weekend. I am off to Washington D.C. to take my daughter back to George Washington University.

I finished with my last two upgrades.
  1. 3 mm CF on the rudder control wire to prevent bending. It just floats on the wire.
  2. Added 3M Extreme tape from wing root to tip to help with wing deflection. It only helps with inside loops or coming out of a dive, but it doesn't eliminate the flex, just reduces it.

    And, I finally balanced the prop. I hate it when I am in a hurry and don't balance the prop.
Bill
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 12:26 AM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,648 Posts
Blog with all the mods I did

I summarized all the modifications I did to the Skysurfer and posted to my blog. I did this so if someone wants to replicate some or all of it they can go to one spot and see it illustrated with pictures. Thanks to everyone and especially AJBaker for pulling together this thread.

Below is the link:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post15817154
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 06:54 AM
Doushiyou12's Avatar
Joined Feb 2010
1,695 Posts
My skysurfer is retired now, well kind of.
Wing flew off midair, nose dive straight to the ground ripping the aileron on the wing that was still attached and splicing the fuse under the motor. everything is fixable but i dont want to fix it fully lol. i taped up the crack on the fuse and I gave it to my son as a chuck glider. its still gets airtime logged in lol.
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 06:37 PM
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Heartland of America
Joined May 2010
227 Posts
Well I got my SkyS today. Mostly in good shape. Both wings where a dinged up on the ends. Nothing to bad. The nose of the fuselage was wrinkled.

Only real issue is, I didnt get a prop. They come with em dont they?


UPDATE: Found the prop, it was hiding in an box. Still a little upset about the fuselage and wings being damaged. Wish BH would put stickers on the outside of the box saying Fragile or something.
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Last edited by awzook; Aug 20, 2010 at 06:45 PM.
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 06:54 PM
BH CSR
Los Angeles
Joined Aug 2010
59 Posts
Awzook,

Sorry to hear of your troubles! Please post photos of the damage and feel free to send me your Banana Hobby Order Number (bhlccsr2@bananahobby.com) so that we can discuss a resolution for the dings and dents.

We will request that UPS handles our packages with more care and caution. It's definitely frustrating and inconvenient to receive damaged merchandise.

Regards,
Lauren
Banana Hobby
bhlccsr2@bananahobby.com
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 07:09 PM
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Heartland of America
Joined May 2010
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Its OK lauren, its only foam and not bad enough to do anything about. Just wish you guys would take your consumers advice a little more and put stickers saying its Fragile or what not.

There was very little damage if any to the outside box. It looks like it was squished from the ends, once you open it you could tell. Maybe from the long trip from China I would assume.
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