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Old Jul 07, 2012, 09:06 AM
Registered User
United States, IL, Kankakee
Joined Jan 2011
29 Posts
SS COG clarification

V1 SS cg is to 60mm per instructions and this thread.
Question # 1 If the nose weights are removed does that change that suggested dimension, or do still use that point and move battery placement forward.
Question # 2 Will changing weight of front or rear of plane due to repairs perhaps, have any effect on the cg point ?
Question # 3 Is it generally best to try to get level or slightly nose heavy. If slightly nose heavy how much
This is on a stock SS with APC 6x4 and 2200 Battery. A lot of the suggested mods from this forum were used when preparing craft for flight.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions as I know this has been covered before. This site is and has been a very helpful and useful basis of knowledge for me and many others. thanks to all..
Dog:
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 09:44 AM
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Eagle202's Avatar
United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogg1 View Post
V1 SS cg is to 60mm per instructions and this thread.
Question # 1 If the nose weights are removed does that change that suggested dimension, or do still use that point and move battery placement forward.
Question # 2 Will changing weight of front or rear of plane due to repairs perhaps, have any effect on the cg point ?
Question # 3 Is it generally best to try to get level or slightly nose heavy. If slightly nose heavy how much
This is on a stock SS with APC 6x4 and 2200 Battery. A lot of the suggested mods from this forum were used when preparing craft for flight.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions as I know this has been covered before. This site is and has been a very helpful and useful basis of knowledge for me and many others. thanks to all..
Dog:
Bigdogg

Good questions. I will answer them in two parts based on my knowledge and experience which is only about 1 yr of flying RC

Based on what I have been told:
#1. It should not have any affect of the CG measurement.
#2. Again should not have any affect on the CG measurement.
#3. Level is best. Some like a little nose heavy. How much depends on how you like to fly.

Based on what I have experienced:
# 1. Maybe.
# 2. I believe modifying the plane can change the CG.
# 3. Level is best. Nose heavy can be a struggle. Tail heavy will cause it to crash.

I changed my reasoning based on my plane and how it flys using the stock setup and then modified for a larger battery.

Stock: 1300 mah battery, nose weight and balanced at 60mm CG. It would take off at launch without dipping it's nose and glide without power.

Modified: 2200 mah battery, nose weight removed, 808 camera on the nose and balanced at 60mm CG. The nose dipped at launch and it would not glide without power. Seemed nose heavy. Maybe due to the camera.

I rebalanced the modified set up with the camera at 70mm and found it launched smooth and would recover and glide when power was removed.

I don't know why my CG changed but the SS does fly better at 70mm then the manufacturer 60mm demension.

Hopefully others will add their knowledge to your questions.

Vince
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 11:25 AM
AKA, Cheap Chiseler
Sculptor's Avatar
United States, FL, North Fort Myers
Joined Mar 2012
1,173 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Nope. Most of us have had at least one frustrating plane. Personally, I have had 3 that just did not fly for me. But, if you give up, send the parts to 2500GENE (aka crash'em-burn'em). Nah, really, don't give up. This plane WILL fly. On a list of 1 to 10 with 1 being the hardest to fly, this plane rates about a 9.
It is better for the tail feathers to be perfectly aligned. But, the little bit that yours is off won't bother a thing. I have flown planes with the whole tail end off about 30-40 degrees and it still flew ok. So, disregard your little bit off. Give it a little up elevator trim, about 1/2 throttle (for BL motor), and a good hefty toss at about 10-20 degrees up and it should fly just fine. Just one more thing, double and triple check the CG. It should be 60mm from the wing LE. If it is any more than that, you WILL crash and wonder why. Take a video to share will all of us.
AJ
AJ, I flew it, wind 5mph only and destroyed it this time, new air frame on it's way.

The big mystery for me was 'why could I fly it in late May and can't fly it now. I did a real close check of everything and here is what I think may have happened.

1. April crashed all month.
a) Trying to fly in 10-15 mph wind.
b) Small field.
c) Trying to fly it too low.
d) Flying too close to me.
c) Flying too fast.

2. May crashed for the first 2 weeks.
a) Horizontal stabilized loose.
1. Tape only holding it. It was moving, I glued it.
b) CG was wrong
1. Mine is V3, manual says set cg at 71 mm from leading edge, mine was
set at 60 mm.
2. Change from 1300 mah to 1800 mah without cking cg.
3. Three gyros helped but wires jammed the servo arms.


3. May, few crashes last two weeks.
a) 3 or 4 trips I flew it really well for me.
1. Was able to fly in 10mph wind
2. Was able to fly it to a stop and just watch it sit there.
b) Clamp on elevator control arm slipped on launch looped it crashing it upside
1. Broke the motor mount and had to guess the angle and pitch gluing it
back. Broke again 3 flights later, guessed at reglue again.


4. It never flew right after that.

Note: 1. Put new prop on it 6x4e it hit the fuse so I cut a notch in the fuse.
Note: 2. Glued broken horz. Stabilizer with CA and it flexed a lot.
Note: 3. Front of fuse is offset 3/8" and 1/2" wider than new, plane is 1" shorter.

The new airframe is Bixler not Blitzrc. With the rods and arms on the outside.

The new plane will be built very carefully and glide tested and trimmed in a field of tall grass. The A3 control board will replacement the three gyros. I may leave it turned off except in wind.

To tell you the truth, I'm as happy as if I had my right mind. I think I've learned a lot for the price of a 35.00 airframe.

Thank you all and AJ
DJ
BTW: I've got a trash bag full of chit for 2500GENE

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Old Jul 07, 2012, 11:36 AM
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United States, IL, Kankakee
Joined Jan 2011
29 Posts
[QUOTE=Eagle202;22098100]Bigdogg

Good questions. I will answer them in two parts based on my knowledge and experience which is only about 1 yr of flying RC

Based on what I have been told:
#1. It should not have any affect of the CG measurement.
#2. Again should not have any affect on the CG measurement.
#3. Level is best. Some like a little nose heavy. How much depends on how you like to fly.

Based on what I have experienced:
# 1. Maybe.
# 2. I believe modifying the plane can change the CG.
# 3. Level is best. Nose heavy can be a struggle. Tail heavy will cause it to crash.

I changed my reasoning based on my plane and how it flys using the stock setup and then modified for a larger battery.

Stock: 1300 mah battery, nose weight and balanced at 60mm CG. It would take off at launch without dipping it's nose and glide without power.

Modified: 2200 mah battery, nose weight removed, 808 camera on the nose and balanced at 60mm CG. The nose dipped at launch and it would not glide without power. Seemed nose heavy. Maybe due to the camera.

I rebalanced the modified setshdgg up with the camera at 70mm and found it launched smooth and would recover and glide when power was removed.

I don't know why my CG changed but the SS does fly better at 70mm then the manufacturer 60mm demension.

Hopefully others will add their knowledge to your questions.

Vince[/QUO


Thanks Vince for your response.
Original build was too tail heavy to achieve balance with stock 1300 battery, perhaps overbuilt tail and fuse a little bit. Balances well with nose weights intact with 2200 at 60mm cog. After a cartwheel landing tail repair needed adding a little more tail weight. Repaired slight nose damage adding a little weight to nose. Plane prior to all repairs would glide well when tossed into wind, no power, nose dives slightly now. Plane seems to fly OK , but requires quick up elevator to achieve flight from normal hand launch. I'm fairly new to this, but I think maybe cog needs to be bumped back a bit and balanced accordingly. Any thoughts appreciated. Too damn hot to fly today anyway. Yet another 100 plus day in my area,
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 03:01 PM
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Eagle202's Avatar
United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined Aug 2011
1,602 Posts
[QUOTE=bigdogg1;22098783]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle202 View Post
Bigdogg

Good questions. I will answer them in two parts based on my knowledge and experience which is only about 1 yr of flying RC

Based on what I have been told:
#1. It should not have any affect of the CG measurement.
#2. Again should not have any affect on the CG measurement.
#3. Level is best. Some like a little nose heavy. How much depends on how you like to fly.

Based on what I have experienced:
# 1. Maybe.
# 2. I believe modifying the plane can change the CG.
# 3. Level is best. Nose heavy can be a struggle. Tail heavy will cause it to crash.

I changed my reasoning based on my plane and how it flys using the stock setup and then modified for a larger battery.

Stock: 1300 mah battery, nose weight and balanced at 60mm CG. It would take off at launch without dipping it's nose and glide without power.

Modified: 2200 mah battery, nose weight removed, 808 camera on the nose and balanced at 60mm CG. The nose dipped at launch and it would not glide without power. Seemed nose heavy. Maybe due to the camera.

I rebalanced the modified setshdgg up with the camera at 70mm and found it launched smooth and would recover and glide when power was removed.

I don't know why my CG changed but the SS does fly better at 70mm then the manufacturer 60mm demension.

Hopefully others will add their knowledge to your questions.

Vince[/QUO


Thanks Vince for your response.
Original build was too tail heavy to achieve balance with stock 1300 battery, perhaps overbuilt tail and fuse a little bit. Balances well with nose weights intact with 2200 at 60mm cog. After a cartwheel landing tail repair needed adding a little more tail weight. Repaired slight nose damage adding a little weight to nose. Plane prior to all repairs would glide well when tossed into wind, no power, nose dives slightly now. Plane seems to fly OK , but requires quick up elevator to achieve flight from normal hand launch. I'm fairly new to this, but I think maybe cog needs to be bumped back a bit and balanced accordingly. Any thoughts appreciated. Too damn hot to fly today anyway. Yet another 100 plus day in my area,
The nose down on launch is very typical of this plane but mine was pretty severe. With all of the repairs & patches (tape & glue) I must have change the plane's aerodynamics.

Try testing at a few different CG's between 60 and 78mm. After you balance it try a hand thrown glide test. Eventually you will find where the best balance is.

Take notes so you have something to go back to in case the sweet spot is missed.

Good luck.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 11:20 PM
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Joined May 2012
3 Posts
MotorMounting

HI guys,
On to my second Bixler,flew the other out of sight never to be seen again.
Got a kit this time and are fitting a 2826-6 motor. I mounted the motor in one half
of the fuselage and it didnt look right. Pulled it out and checked it placement in
the other half and it looks better. When looking at the front of the fuse which
side are most people glueing the Stock mount to before glueing both halves
together. To me both sides are not identical where the motor fits.
Thanks
Les
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 12:28 AM
It should fly at least once
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Australia, NSW, Grenfell
Joined Mar 2006
2,598 Posts
Just maidened mine and all good except for needing heaps of left aileron. I think that is because the motor offset I used when replacing the motor was far too much. Looking from the front of the aircraft the motor was pointing out to the LHS. I hope to check this out with a flight tomorrow now I have moved the motor more to straight.
Otherwise floats nicely and does all the areobatics needed. Lands into the wind at about 1 MPH
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 03:33 AM
Argue for your limitations
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Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
Quick questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle202 View Post
<snip>
Stock: 1300 mah battery, nose weight and balanced at 60mm CG. It would take off at launch without dipping it's nose and glide without power.

Modified: 2200 mah battery, nose weight removed, 808 camera on the nose and balanced at 60mm CG. The nose dipped at launch and it would not glide without power. Seemed nose heavy. Maybe due to the camera.

I rebalanced the modified set up with the camera at 70mm and found it launched smooth and would recover and glide when power was removed.

I don't know why my CG changed but the SS does fly better at 70mm then the manufacturer 60mm demension.

Hopefully others will add their knowledge to your questions.

Vince
Mine, too, flies much better (for me) at 70-72mm CG.
1. What is the AUW of your plane now?
2. Is it possible that your plane is just getting too heavy to fly well?
2. What LiPo are you using?
AJ
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Last edited by ajbaker; Jul 08, 2012 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Fix poor grammar
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 03:35 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
WELCOME to the Thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwik View Post
HI guys,
On to my second Bixler,flew the other out of sight never to be seen again.
Got a kit this time and are fitting a 2826-6 motor. I mounted the motor in one half
of the fuselage and it didnt look right. Pulled it out and checked it placement in
the other half and it looks better. When looking at the front of the fuse which
side are most people glueing the Stock mount to before glueing both halves
together. To me both sides are not identical where the motor fits.
Thanks
Les
The side with the slight angle (port side IIRC). Oh, I missed your first post. Welcome. Stay a while and have some popcorn with us. 2500GENE usually buys because he is rich.
AJ
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Last edited by ajbaker; Jul 08, 2012 at 03:41 AM.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 03:37 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
Re-maiden video

Quote:
Originally Posted by clive45 View Post
Just maidened mine and all good except for needing heaps of left aileron. I think that is because the motor offset I used when replacing the motor was far too much. Looking from the front of the aircraft the motor was pointing out to the LHS. I hope to check this out with a flight tomorrow now I have moved the motor more to straight.
Otherwise floats nicely and does all the areobatics needed. Lands into the wind at about 1 MPH
I am glad to read some good news. Make sure you take some videos to share with everyone.
AJ
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 04:40 AM
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Joined May 2012
3 Posts
Thanks a.j
Learn something new everyday, yes thats where it fits best.
Thanks also for a great thread, read all pages before i built the first one.
Bixler is a great plane for park flying, always keeping an eye on this thread.
Les
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 08:26 AM
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Malaysia, Sabah, Kuala Penyu
Joined Aug 2011
721 Posts
My Bixler is flying again....

finally...3 months after its maiden, my Bixler is flying again....and this time with some fellow flyers.

Take off: The banking to right syndrome still present although not as sharp as its maiden. The flight, I think Im gonna adjust the thrust angle a bit to the right (rear view) or maybe just do some trimming to the aileron.

This time, the place was much more bigger than our football field and I flew it quiet high this time and was able to land it nicely.

Buuuut....forgot to bring along my Vcam...unto the next flight
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 10:26 AM
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United States, FL, Clearwater
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Mine, too, flies much better (for me) at 70-72mm CG.
1. What is the AUW of your plane now? While reading all you posts, it is getting hard and harder for me to lift them up to read them possibly because of the weight of your plane. Is it possible that your plane is just WAYYYY too heavy (or is it just big-boned).
2. What LiPo are you using?
AJ
Oh. Sorry about my long posts. One of my weaknesses.

I am using a turnigy nano-tech 2200 mah battery & # 16 808 cam on the nose. Total weight is about 28 oz.

To get it to balance at 70 mm I used the nose weight (about 1oz) and mounted it in the tail just under the rudder.

I wouldn't think that just adding some weight would move the design 60mm CG back 10 to 12 mm.

I do believe that some of my repairs to the nose area (tape, glue, Popsicle sticks) added weight but why would the CG dimension change?

To counter the added weight up front you should just add enough in back to balance at the design CG not move the CG.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 11:45 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle202 View Post
1. Oh. Sorry about my long posts. One of my weaknesses.

I am using a turnigy nano-tech 2200 mah battery & # 16 808 cam on the nose. Total weight is about 28 oz.

To get it to balance at 70 mm I used the nose weight (about 1oz) and mounted it in the tail just under the rudder.

I wouldn't think that just adding some weight would move the design 60mm CG back 10 to 12 mm.

I do believe that some of my repairs to the nose area (tape, glue, Popsicle sticks) added weight but why would the CG dimension change?

2. To counter the added weight up front you should just add enough in back to balance at the design CG not move the CG.
1. Oops. My bad. You interpreted my post EXACTLY as I wrote it. Unfortunately, I did not mean that AT ALL. I was making a joke (obviously, I failed) making light (pun intended) of how heavy your plane might be getting. Since your plane is getting heavier, it is figures that is must harder for me to read your posts because they are getting heavier with the pictures of your plane. Oh, well, I guess you had to be there. Sorry for the poor post content.
IMO, your posts in both length and content are informative and helpful to everyone. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

2. Correct. Some folks figure that one out right away. Some don't ever figure it out. It is counter-intuitive, though.
AJ
P.S. I went back and edited that post.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 12:26 PM
Nakelp
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United States, NJ, Union
Joined Sep 2004
6,794 Posts
AJ and the rest of the crowd :-))
Guys, since this thread has hundreds of pages already may I suggest starting new thread committed only to electronics, power settings (motors, ESC, FPV equipment etc.)
It is very hard here to find anything specific and sort through hundreds of chit-chat talk posts. Its been done with Skywalker and we could model the posts as here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1494373

This way we could avoid answering/repeating same questions over and over again by simple redirecting these questions to the specific thread.
It could be combined with Bixler and Skysurfer as the planes are virtually very similar.
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