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Old Apr 14, 2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cip060 View Post
It 'just like that fact
Audi has bought ducati and not as a rider Valentino Rossi wants
'cause it costs too much and does not win
Sorry I don't understand but If you don't believe. I can copy and paste the source.
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 10:48 AM
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1 audi buy ducati
2 and valentino is' tired of giving a bad impression with that bike
3 Valentine asked yamaha motorcycle yamaha nonstante satellite and what happened when he and 'went
4 It obviously brings back all his staff
5 there are only problems only with sponsors Philip Morris for ducats and there would be coca cola for yamaha satellite
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cip060 View Post
1 audi buy ducati
2 and valentino is' tired of giving a bad impression with that bike
3 Valentine asked yamaha motorcycle yamaha nonstante satellite and what happened when he and 'went
4 It obviously brings back all his staff
5 there are only problems only with sponsors Philip Morris for ducats and there would be coca cola for yamaha satellite
Ok like I said in 2013... As far as 2012 go Rossi said he will stay with Ducati and keep working on the bike And racing it.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 07:42 AM
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I believe Vale will stick with Ducati.

He (and other riders) will work to get that dog of a machine into something that is both rider friendly and fast.

Ducati lost their way in development when Casey was in the team, a fact proved by results. Casey may have been happy riding a non responsive bike but look at everyone else's (on a Ducati) results. Casey rode around the problems and he certainly had the talent to do so, but as evidenced by a few accidents in his last year there, the bike was spearing off in totally the wrong direction as regards the development and evolution. It only suited Casey's riding style and showed that it was a nightmare in a bubble car for anyone else.

It now falls on Valentino/ Jerry Burgess/ eveyone else on a Ducati to turn that around, to take the thinking of motorcycle dynamics back into the right direction. I believe whilst Casey is very gifted, he is not as strong as many others in development. The case to point to is both the Honda RC211v and the Yamaha M1. Both bikes will have had not only a lot of input from Vale but from others as well. The fact that the M1 continues to evolve as a sweet handling bike is perhaps testament to continued work over the years By VR/JB.

Now of course, this has to work it's way into a team that has lost it's way technically chassis wise and it will take lots of time, far more than anyone would have expected, and maybe that shows just how badly led they have been in the past. You can only go on results and feedback, and it would suggest that Casey and his close cell of engineers around him either didn't give the right kind of input back to the team or he just soldiered on, happy to ride the nuts off of whatever they gave him, to the detriment of, well, everybody. Now of course, development appears to be much more rider led, and I don't believe that VR will walk away from the challenge, there will be a lot of pride in his achievments in his previous work, so naturally, I think that he will want to get Ducati out there in the right direction with a good handling bike. As far as his options go, giving Ducati a new breath of life would appear preferable to slumming it with a B class Yamaha or trying to get back on a Honda. Bridges to both those camps were burned on his leaving, though the bridge burned behind him at Yamaha and at least Ducati have a stack of money to throw at the project which not only satisfies VR's wage demands but also keeps technical work at the factory unimpeded. They (the Ducati brand) will be happy to keep going at this for a few more years as the turnaround will come, then they can start recouping the money when it does, in align to the old adage, win on sunday, sell on monday.

Will it come fast enough for VR before he retires or gets outclassed by the 21 year old next hot things come through? We await...

On a completely different note, here is an article regarding arm pump, link provided courtesy of the BBC. http://backontrackphysio.org/page7.htm Looks a swine to recover from, I hope CS can get over it soon, riders like him can make a season interesting, and we need it now Sideshow Bob is no longer here
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Bradbury View Post
I believe Vale will stick with Ducati.

He (and other riders) will work to get that dog of a machine into something that is both rider friendly and fast.

Ducati lost their way in development when Casey was in the team, a fact proved by results. Casey may have been happy riding a non responsive bike but look at everyone else's (on a Ducati) results. Casey rode around the problems and he certainly had the talent to do so, but as evidenced by a few accidents in his last year there, the bike was spearing off in totally the wrong direction as regards the development and evolution. It only suited Casey's riding style and showed that it was a nightmare in a bubble car for anyone else.

It now falls on Valentino/ Jerry Burgess/ eveyone else on a Ducati to turn that around, to take the thinking of motorcycle dynamics back into the right direction. I believe whilst Casey is very gifted, he is not as strong as many others in development. The case to point to is both the Honda RC211v and the Yamaha M1. Both bikes will have had not only a lot of input from Vale but from others as well. The fact that the M1 continues to evolve as a sweet handling bike is perhaps testament to continued work over the years By VR/JB.

Now of course, this has to work it's way into a team that has lost it's way technically chassis wise and it will take lots of time, far more than anyone would have expected, and maybe that shows just how badly led they have been in the past. You can only go on results and feedback, and it would suggest that Casey and his close cell of engineers around him either didn't give the right kind of input back to the team or he just soldiered on, happy to ride the nuts off of whatever they gave him, to the detriment of, well, everybody. Now of course, development appears to be much more rider led, and I don't believe that VR will walk away from the challenge, there will be a lot of pride in his achievments in his previous work, so naturally, I think that he will want to get Ducati out there in the right direction with a good handling bike. As far as his options go, giving Ducati a new breath of life would appear preferable to slumming it with a B class Yamaha or trying to get back on a Honda. Bridges to both those camps were burned on his leaving, though the bridge burned behind him at Yamaha and at least Ducati have a stack of money to throw at the project which not only satisfies VR's wage demands but also keeps technical work at the factory unimpeded. They (the Ducati brand) will be happy to keep going at this for a few more years as the turnaround will come, then they can start recouping the money when it does, in align to the old adage, win on sunday, sell on monday.

Will it come fast enough for VR before he retires or gets outclassed by the 21 year old next hot things come through? We await...

On a completely different note, here is an article regarding arm pump, link provided courtesy of the BBC. http://backontrackphysio.org/page7.htm Looks a swine to recover from, I hope CS can get over it soon, riders like him can make a season interesting, and we need it now Sideshow Bob is no longer here
Yes that all sounds noble and the right thing to do in some cases. But i can only go by what Rossi has said as it has been written in plain words as i have read. If there's no real improvement by the end of 2012 with ducati. Then he will move on to a yamaha satellite team or the likes of Gresini honda.
Or he could be leaving 2wheels for 4..Rossi 18th in wet Monza sportscar debut.
Me personally, i'd rather see him go to a B rated team and be fighting for the podium. Than taking a lashing from some of the B rated teams which it seems to be happening now. With his legacy would he really want to retire on a bike that's not lookin like it's not cutting the mustard????? Yes it would make for a great cinderella story.That would be the icing on the cake,but what are the odds lookin like right now.If one was to go back and look at the times that was posted from last season,winter testing and then to date.
If it doesn't turn around by the 7th or 8th round.Then i'd say another season of him fighting for scraps will be on the horizon if he decides to stay with the Duc.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 08:06 PM
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JB... I gotta disagree with you here mate...

Yes Rossi is a great rider, and a fantastic racer...
Yes Jeremy Burgess and co. are a great team....

But neither are super human, and neither perform super human feats... As displayed by the past 18 months of development spent as a no holes barred chuck as much money at it as you like re-designing team at Ducati...

From alot of articles I've read (maybe not bible, but from a number of different sources) Casey Stoner, in Ducati's eyes, was no more than a crash prone flash in the pan, who's opinion, and that of his close team, didn't carry alot of weight... And the manafacturer simply wouldn't change the bike for them, or any rider (except of course Valantino Rossi)...
As stated many times, the bike they started the season with was generally the same bike they finished the season with... Unlike everyone else on a Japanese bike who constantly receives update after update to improve their package...

Now onto the development front... Way I see it ( and I only came to this opinion late last year) is both Jeremy Burgess, and to an even greater degree Rossi, have always walked into a team with a bike already at stage of winning races, they have groomed them int consistant championship winning bikes... But they were already pretty close upon their arrival...
Examples here are,
Valentino 125cc- Aprilia- what else is there... Same for 250cc
500cc... He just stepped straight into a team that had won the previous 5 titles...
motogp... There worlds largest manafacturer produced a superior machine to anyone else, and when you're the number rider, yours is even faster than the rest...
Then the move to Yamaha... Biaggi was already winning races on the M1, and the bike was already quite good...
Add to this the fact that during this time the tyre supply was unlimited, meaning if you're the number one man, your tyres a way better than everyone else's... And if they're not, then they'll build you a specific tyre over night and have ready for you come Sunday morning...

Things back then were totally different...

Jeremy Burgess has also worked only for Japanese builders who strive for mechanical exelence until now... And I beleive he spent alot of time under technical guru Erv Kanemoto...

So now when these two phenomenons are given a clean slate to build a bike... It appears it doesn't work too well... And it's a real shame... But it's far from Stoner's fault Rossi can't ride it...

I certainly don't mean to take anything away from these guys... But it's a whole lot more technical than pointing a finger at one particular team that made the most out of what they had...

And then there's the fact that Rossi was the last factory bike( nonCRT) on the grid, and 2nd last to finish (due Spies tyre issue)... So the other guys are gettin something more than the Dream Team can out of the bike...

Ohh yeah... And I'm an Aussie, and Rossi's not... And Stoner is...
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:16 AM
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The Ducati speaks German. The home of Ducati rider has a new master: the Audi. The patron Bonomi has reached an agreement with the German car company based on 860 million euros for 80% of the shares of the brand from Bologna. The remaining 20% should, in all likelihood, remain in the hands of the Bonomi company. The official announcement is expected on Thursday when there will be a general meeting of shareholders Volkswagen.

The Ducati has a new master, Ferdinand Piech. The fresh 75 year old, big boss of Audi, Volkswagen and President of appassionatissimo two wheels, was able to purchase the Borgo Panigale, after a failed attempt in 2005. The supervisory board of Volkswagen is ready to approve the acquizione of Ducati and the black and white come to Hamburg.

The Italian brand symbol of Made in Italy, thus entering into the family that contains the elite of engines: Volkswagen, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, Mani, Scania and Italdesign-Giugiaro over the body.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 11:20 PM
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From alot of articles I've read (maybe not bible, but from a number of different sources) Casey Stoner, in Ducati's eyes, was no more than a crash prone flash in the pan, who's opinion, and that of his close team, didn't carry alot of weight... And the manafacturer simply wouldn't change the bike for them, or any rider (except of course Valantino Rossi)...
As stated many times, the bike they started the season with was generally the same bike they finished the season with... Unlike everyone else on a Japanese bike who constantly receives update after update to improve their package
Maybe an indication that Ducati think like Honda in some ways that the bike is all and the rider is superflouos. Honda are renowned for thinking the bike is 90% and the rider 10%, though they have got their act together in recent seasons.

Quote:
Then the move to Yamaha... Biaggi was already winning races on the M1, and the bike was already quite good...
The M1 was a pile of poo in 2003 in comparison to Honda, it managed one 3rd place all year.

Quote:
Things back then were totally different...

Jeremy Burgess has also worked only for Japanese builders who strive for mechanical exelence until now... And I beleive he spent alot of time under technical guru Erv Kanemoto...

So now when these two phenomenons are given a clean slate to build a bike... It appears it doesn't work too well... And it's a real shame... But it's far from Stoner's fault Rossi can't ride it...
Agreed. Though I have in the last few days just trying to ascertain why Ducati can't build a nice bike. I thought that it may have been a rider fault though it now appears that Ducati have a fundamental problem in their development and should have been taking more notes a lot sooner as it was obvious that CS was over riding to get any results, hence any crashes, that are inevitable. I knew CS was over riding, I just couldn't work out the reason why he had to go down that route. Crap test rider or crap test team or crap management, hard to say sometimes.

Maybe Audi's money and influence is going to come too late to steer the red bikes to the pointy end for VR, which is a shame. A great three way battle between VR CS and JL is what I would love to see, best man wins and what a contest that would be.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 06:34 PM
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You cant go from bike to bike team to team and win back to back championships then claim its all the bike and little to do with the rider, thats just plain ignorant.
The development team including VR that brought those bikes to winning and consistent shape has to have a program that they can apply to a bike that delivers results. To invite that team into yours and then not listen to them especially coming from such an impressive and proven track record highlights a fundamental management problem within the Ducati organization. The integration of the two design and development teams must not have gone smoothly and in typical Italian fashion its quite simply possible the designer or the factories pride is in the way of making progress. (Im Italian I know this for fact)
They should have had results by now, the bikes and both riders should be in the top 5 by now, consistently.
Also keep in mind that Ducati operate the GP team on a much smaller budget than the Japanese teams do. To just order up a new bike and throw a ton of parts at it all season long may not be in the budget, at least not at their scale.

For sure there is much that is unknown but I want to see Ducati up front with VR and Hayden this season, fingers crossed.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 04:23 AM
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Hey guys... I see where you guys are coming from and fully appreciate what you're sayin...

And I probably should research my argument before I start sproutin off...

Way I see though... Is very few people give Stoner any credit for his acheivments, it's always backhanded compliments... " oh yeah Casey did ok in 2007, but it's more the fact Rossi didn't have the right tyres, or enough top speed, or the right hand grips, or seat pad or etc etc..."

I like Rossi as a rider... And think the sport is far less interesting without him at the front... I give him full credit for all his results... And his team is the most successful of the modern era... And for a good reason...

But enough is enough... No more excuses... They need to get that motorcyle to the pointy end... And Rossi needs to prove his sallary and be the first Ducati home, at every round... And by a decent buffer over the rest aswell...

When VR is in that position and still 33sec. off the lead, then they can complain how bad the bike is...

Geez I would love to sit down and have a few cold drinks watchin the next round with you guys... I love chattin with guys about bikes that have a good knowledge (and usually more than me) but don't always have the same view as mine...

Anyway... Until that happens I'll have to keep havin light hearted discussions here about How good Aussies are... Just because we're Aussies... Of course...

So let's see how the hometown heroes go this weekend...
Jorge is lookin good
Pedrosa same for him
Bautista could get some help from the crowd, too 5 would be nice
Barbera can run pretty well at times too
Then there's the CRT riding Spaniards too

Be a good race to watch...
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 09:33 PM
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Geez I would love to sit down and have a few cold drinks watchin the next round with you guys...
Me too, though it would be a pretty expensive pint for me to do that.

I understand what you are saying about Casey. It is not his fault as such that he gets a less than flattering press, he is after all having to follow the most charismatic rider on the grid for the last decade (Col not withstanding). It is just one of those things, some riders have the ability to carry a good image to the press, some less so. I can only make a analogy to say Mansell, who despite being a brilliant Formula 1 driver, was always pasted as the brummie whinger. Maybe unfair to compare Casey with Nige but it conveys the point a little.

Casey is top notch, if he gets his head down, he can rival Doohan for titles. Fact.

As for Ducati, truth be known, MotoGP really needs at least three or better four top teams battling for the front. The loss of Aprilia, Suzuki and Kawasaki has really depleted the competition over the years which is a big shame, and I hope Audi can bring their expertise to bear fruit soon, as we know they will eventually. They have a proven track record in this regard and the fact it has two wheels less I would doubt make no difference. After all they were laughed at at first when the Quattro turned up to go rallying, they were not viewed as a big threat to Porsche when the R8 debuted, and aTDi at Le Mans?

Speculating here, but if CRT shows some promise, and Ducati can show some signs of life, then maybe BMW might be tempted to enter the fray with a works team?... Lets hope so.
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Did you see the results of the second MotoGP test session?

with wet conditions Vale made second behind Pedrosa and Nicky made 5th....

Let's see tomorrow!

Ciao
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 01:05 PM
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I think some people are not ready to put Casey up on the pedestal next to Rossi yet do to all of Rossi's acheivements. Heck when Lorenzo won his Championship.I'm pretty sure people was down playing it as well.(i know i was). Well Casey has a real chance to shut everybody UP! and realize and give him his accolades.

If you think about it who was really there to challange Lorenzo that year.LOL
But on that note If Casey should lose the #1 plate this year.Then who ever wins it will have to face some kind of skepticism. Like oh the ducs never got it together,Dani got hurt again,Casey arm pump and frontend chatter.Ben Spies continuing downhill spiral... Yes i know it's early but trust me it will be something,we all know this. In a perfect world all the racers bikes are on their top game. Then we can see who is who and what bike is what.(never gonna ever happen)
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 03:20 PM
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JL got to ride on what was left of VR's development work. He doesnt have the team around him to develop the bike to be a winner as well as VR did. That was the lapse from one season to the other. In addition Honda have been working on improvements for two plus seasons straight and then CS arrived which has helped because he is by all rights a great rider. Again not a top developer as evidenced by the new and recurring chatter comments and forearm pump. This year JL will get a chance to fight for the front but the bike lacks in top speed, still.
So to say one was better than another and compare and this and that to me is a waste of time.
The true test in my opinion is for the championship winner to repeat the next year. If he doesnt then I feel that the championship was more or less gifted to that team due to participation and a good showing for the year. Same can be said of Hayden, it was gifted to him due to circumstances, he cannot repeat with the level of the field that exists today.

Its a rare year when the top teams are all on the same page with healthy riders and well developed bikes. Sometimes the first year after the bikes have been changed to suit the new class rules is a better year than the in between years. More of the lower tier teams can compete until the teams figure stuff out and press on ahead. This season is starting off like this as far as I can tell.
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 02:10 PM
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JL got to ride on what was left of VR's development work. He doesnt have the team around him to develop the bike to be a winner as well as VR did. That was the lapse from one season to the other. In addition Honda have been working on improvements for two plus seasons straight and then CS arrived which has helped because he is by all rights a great rider. Again not a top developer as evidenced by the new and recurring chatter comments and forearm pump. This year JL will get a chance to fight for the front but the bike lacks in top speed, still.
So to say one was better than another and compare and this and that to me is a waste of time.
The true test in my opinion is for the championship winner to repeat the next year. If he doesnt then I feel that the championship was more or less gifted to that team due to participation and a good showing for the year. Same can be said of Hayden, it was gifted to him due to circumstances, he cannot repeat with the level of the field that exists today.

Its a rare year when the top teams are all on the same page with healthy riders and well developed bikes. Sometimes the first year after the bikes have been changed to suit the new class rules is a better year than the in between years. More of the lower tier teams can compete until the teams figure stuff out and press on ahead. This season is starting off like this as far as I can tell.
LOL Yeah pretty much what i said.LOL
So i guess it could be said about JL then he only owned the #1 plate for 1yr also.LOL
On that note JL puts it on the pole then Dani and wait a minute A duc on the front row Nicky Hayden....LOL
Speaking of Nicky I read that Casey spoak to Nicky about the Duc.Nicky stated that it's been the best duc he's ever ridden. Now you gotta think why in the world is Rossi sitting in 13th for the start.
Casey is really starting to question Rossi's performance on the Duc.LOL Casey said he can understand the bike being off for abit.But to be this much off while the other duc is on the front row. Well you can pretty much see where he's going with this.
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