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Old Aug 21, 2011, 08:06 AM
Angry Bird ...
yarrumevets's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
861 Posts
Cheers Doug - I'm a bit embarrassed about getting the EDF size wrong. My Huck kits are boxed away in the spare room and are a hassle to get to. I got the idea in my mind they were 69mm units from somewhere and didn't check. Thanks for the heads-up.

From what you're saying, it's important to get a measured/tuned amount of thrust into this model, instead of going balls-out and trying to squeeze every last drop out of the power-train as we normally do in an EDF model. That's interesting. It looks like I'm going to have to log some hours flying our two JPower (Sky Angels) models first and get a bit of EDF flying experience behind me before thinking more seriously about this particular plane. I'll need to get my test-stand out and dusted off too and get a bit more scientific about what I'm doing. All good - thanks again.

Just saw your most recent post. So, some down-thrust eh? ... that would mean angling the entire inlet and efflux tubes as well as the fan shroud in between. That would be difficult to do unless the fuse mouldings were shaped to accommodate it. Either that, or glue the wings and tailplane onto the fuse with some angle-of-attack built-in. Hmm ... the plot thickens.

All the best,
Steve

P.S. Slaanesh lives in Melbourne which is about 1000 km (650 miles) away, unfortunately. So it might be a while before we get to fly at the same field some time
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Old Aug 21, 2011, 10:36 AM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
921 Posts
Well the way I look at it producing down thrust should be as easy as vectored thrust just readjust the thrust tube a few degrees down. I know you will loose some efficiency but not enough to make a difference and it would help in the power to weight ratio as well.
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Old Aug 21, 2011, 10:41 PM
Angry Bird ...
yarrumevets's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
861 Posts
Yeh, OK - I see what you mean now.
Something else I've been thinking about too, is finding a way to get the battery under the inlet thrust tube instead of above it. When the throttle is moved up quickly, I'd expect the plane to rotate upwards if the thrust line is well below the CoG. If I could move the CoG vertically downward (not forward or aft) then a pitching-up moment would be reduced. It might be a hassle to do, but could possibly help a lot.
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Old Aug 22, 2011, 07:07 AM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
921 Posts
I thought of that as well what it would take you would have to flat-in the bottom of the intake tube about 10mm. I don't think this would hurt much because this is what they do with their F-86 to make it fix over the wing. Then a excess hatch would need to be made I was thinking on the side so the bottom strength wasn't lost. I'll take a picture of the F-86 tube to show you what I mean.
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Old Aug 22, 2011, 08:30 AM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
921 Posts
Here is a pic of the F-86 intake tube with adapter and edf unit.
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Old Aug 22, 2011, 07:58 PM
Not enough hours in the day
Slaanesh's Avatar
Melbourne
Joined Feb 2009
2,417 Posts
Huckebein translated literally means "crooked leg" - though it's supposed to mean "unlucky raven" - an old cartoon character of a Raven.

You will see some TA-183s have a bird's head motif on them - these are references to it's own name.

Some down thrust actually sounds like a good idea though don't know how easy it would be to do on this model.
One way of accomplishing it would be to glue the wings and horizonal stab 1-2mms higher at the trailing edges - easily done due to the way the wings and stab are attached. This would effectively point the thrust line slightly down giving the desired down-thrust.
Of course it's a slightly risky proposition as once it's all glued together like that it's all on for good (or bad!)

Other mods which I think which would work well are wing fences - to reduce the tip stall tendency.

Also, if you got really ambitious, instead of reflex in the ailerons, some how twist the wingtips to introduce some washout - it's a pity that Alfa didn't mold the wing panels with this in the first place.
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 09:35 AM
Angry Bird ...
yarrumevets's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
861 Posts
I've got to put my Huck plans on the back-burner for a while guys. Probably be a couple of months, maybe (southern hemisphere) summer before I get time to prioritise it ... but that's life.
All the best,
Steve
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 09:44 AM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
921 Posts
Last night I went to the field to fly the Huck. I re-installed the E-flite 4200Kv motor that I thought was bad but turned out to be the ESC. I got off work late so I just grabbed the Huck a couple of batteries and the radio. I figure I'm just going to have enough daylight for 2 flights. NOT! Stupid me took off the tail section to make an adjustment to the elevator servo. I had to unplug the motor and I'm sure you guess it in plugging the motor back in I reversed the wires! STUPID! I always check that my control surfaces are going to right direction, I've preached this to others at the field all season because we have had 3 planes this year crash because of a reversed control surface. It was kinda funny I powered it up check the controls and applied power and it moved backwards. I kinda shocked why did it do that so I applied power again and it did the same then I heard giggling behind me and one flying buddy said Doug turn your plane around maybe it will fly backwards!!! LOL It always feels good to be at the butt end of the joke. The bad thing was I didn't bring any tools so I couldn't reverse the motor wires. So I got to hang around and watch the others fly and make fun of me the rest of the night...... Next flight planned for Thursday.

A little off topic here but when I got home I fixed the Hack and then worked on my new jet that I wanted to maiden this weekend. It is a Sapac 70mm T-45 GosHawk, I'm finished with the plane just needed to install a new Ice 100amp ESC and Bec then she is complete. After installing them I gabbed a 3s lipo just for the first power up and plugged it in. The rx and bec powered up but the esc was dead no response. Looked the system over I started smelling something burning, I quickly unplugged the battery and got a slit burn on my hand from the battery pack! Surface temp of the battery was 194 degrees and I just had it plugged in for less then a minute. I pulled the esc out and could smell the burnt component odor coming from it. Bummer all my connections where right BEC, power connections and motor. I purchased this unit it March so it should still be under warranty so off to Castle it goes. Looking on there web-site they have a 3 week turn around time posted so I'm guessing a Month. I really wanted to fly the T-45 and see what a bigger jet flys like. I guess that will have to wait.
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 10:19 AM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
921 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaanesh View Post
Huckebein translated literally means "crooked leg" - though it's supposed to mean "unlucky raven" - an old cartoon character of a Raven.

You will see some TA-183s have a bird's head motif on them - these are references to it's own name.

Some down thrust actually sounds like a good idea though don't know how easy it would be to do on this model.
One way of accomplishing it would be to glue the wings and horizonal stab 1-2mms higher at the trailing edges - easily done due to the way the wings and stab are attached. This would effectively point the thrust line slightly down giving the desired down-thrust.
Of course it's a slightly risky proposition as once it's all glued together like that it's all on for good (or bad!)

Other mods which I think which would work well are wing fences - to reduce the tip stall tendency.

Also, if you got really ambitious, instead of reflex in the ailerons, some how twist the wingtips to introduce some washout - it's a pity that Alfa didn't mold the wing panels with this in the first place.
I was thinking this as well since my current Huck is getting beat up why not use it as a test bed. My thought on the down thrust is to remove the thrust tube and back cut the inlet side of the tube then remove some material from the bottom of the tail to compensate for the down pitch of the tube. I've always wanted to add the wing fences since I read that other Huck thread where a member added fences and spoilers.

"Steve Here is another good thread on the Huck it was started in 2003 but almost goes to current day. A lot of good info as well Sorry to hear you have to put your project on hold hope everything is well."

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ghlight=ta+183

I want to make a few flights and see if the flipping problem goes away with the old motor installed. Then I will first add the wing fences then add the down thrust. So that is my plan.

Well that confirms it! now we all know why this plane has problems
"The Unlucky Raven" I like superstition I was born on the 13TH. I even had my 13Th Birthday on Friday the 13TH! So the Huck and I have something in common! make sense.....
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 10:46 AM
turbonut's Avatar
upland CA
Joined Dec 2004
7,160 Posts
Hello Guys....I have reading along as I also have a NIB huck...I loved flying my first one...Which I flew with the old brushed motor at first..this was the plane that gave me EDF fever..the last flight was a mega powerd with a custom 5 blade rotor(made before alfa had a 5 blade..it was a hand full to launch...I had a bunch of info in the old thread back in 05 I think...Any way Badlemon the mod you want to do is the same Mod Steve Neil did to the 90mm huck as it to had pitch trouble. I plan to try a diverter in the thrust tube to redirect the eflux!
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Old Aug 24, 2011, 11:13 AM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
921 Posts
That sounds doable then I wouldn't have to pull the thrust tube. Good idea. Yes I did get the idea from Steve's 90mm design in talking with heiner "I think you know him" when he sold me his ta-183 kit. From my experience the alfa Huck should have less then a 1:1 power to weight ratio. Right now I ROG my Huck but I want to hand launch so I think the down thrust would help with the pitch problem at take off. I was also thinking if flaps would help? I wouldn't use them for landing because the jet loves to glide just for take off.
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Old Aug 25, 2011, 04:20 AM
Angry Bird ...
yarrumevets's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
861 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadLemon View Post
"Steve Here is another good thread on the Huck it was started in 2003 but almost goes to current day. A lot of good info as well Sorry to hear you have to put your project on hold hope everything is well."

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ghlight=ta+183
Thanks for that Doug - much appreciated.
Yeh, everything is well enough here, but I've got to do some domestic re-organisation. The main reason I can't build any more planes is because of the lack of storage space in the house. The Missus says I've got to get a large shed built in the yard, but before that I've gotta renovate the kitchen .... and you don't wanna know.
Thanks again though and "I'll be back!"
Best wishes,
Steve
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 09:00 PM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
921 Posts
Well guys I lost my Ta-183 Huckebein today.... I did a ROG like I normally do made some right turns and setup for a pass down the field then the left wing dropped and started to spiral until she hit the ground I did everything to stop the spiral but the Huck didn't respond. The only thing I did so far to try to figure out what happen is check battery voltage and the pack was measuring 4.08 per cell. Well I think I did well for a plane that has a history of instability problems. I recorded 72 flights, 2 flips and 2 crashes with her, she will be missed. But not for long I have another Ta-183 new in the box I bought form Slaanesh! We have a Holiday this coming Monday and I'm taking off work on Friday so I have 4 days off. I have a couple of projects to finish then I will start the new Ta-183 build, I'm going to post the build on this thread. Here is some carnage pic's and a pic of my new Huck Look familiar Slaanesh! Well this is the plan I want to have it ready to fly before the end of September!
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Old Aug 31, 2011, 11:35 PM
Not enough hours in the day
Slaanesh's Avatar
Melbourne
Joined Feb 2009
2,417 Posts
Bummer!

That's pretty much what my TA-183 looked like.

I did a down-wind turn when it just rolled over and went straight it - so quick that I was standing there in dis-belief afterwards.

Well I hope your 2nd one goes well.

When I make mine I will just make it as light as possible.
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Old Sep 01, 2011, 09:00 AM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
921 Posts
I was bummed out I wanted to try some of the mods we talked about but it is what it is.
Also last night I looked on Hobby-Lobbys web-site and it looks like they are discontinuing the Alfa line. The Huck is no longer displayed and many of the other jets are marked discontinued. I may have to order one from Alfa directly if I want a second one.

I don't know why it went into a spiral like that I had plenty on speed I didn't make a sharp turn and the wings where level. One thing I didn't have was a head wind it was for once very calm out last night. I did notice that the Huck does like a headwind, This is the second plane I lost when it didn't respond to my stick inputs with the same radio. I was thinking about this last night, my radio is an original Futuba 9CAP/PCM with the Spektrum Module installed. I wonder if I'm getting glitches from the radio or transmitter module. I also have a Spektrum DX6i I think I'm going to bind the new Huck to it to fly with. I purchased the radio new when it first came out so it is about 12 years old so I'm going to send it in and have it check out. The bad thing I have other planes programmed as well so I need to move them over to the dx6i but only 3 spaces left in the memory.

One thing I didn't say I did have 2 hand launches with the Huck, The first one was almost a disaster I let go to late and it almost hit the ground but it pulled out inches from the ground and climbed out. The second I reduced throttle to just less then half gave it a level toss with no elevator input just ailerons to keep it level. She did sink a bit until she got up to speed then I increased throttle to half and slowly climbed. I did notice when I went from 3/8 to 1/2 throttle the nose pitched up I was ready on the elevator but I didn't give it down I just wanted to see what it would do but she leveled off. So I'm thinking down thrust would differently help with the huck pitching up at take off. Well on with the New Huck more to come!
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