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Old Apr 05, 2010, 12:49 PM
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Our man in Afghanistan

Karzai blurts out he is joining the Talaban, or something.

Quote:
"He said that 'if I come under foreign pressure, I might join the Taliban'," said Farooq Marenai, who represents the eastern province of Nangarhar.

"He said rebelling would change to resistance," Marenai said — apparently suggesting that the militant movement would then be redefined as one of resistance against a foreign occupation rather than a rebellion against an elected government.
He already has crooks and warlords in his cabinet, now this. Rigged election. Too much to contemplate. I am stumped to understand the neutrality of such a statement, or was he being sarcastic? Who knows.

Lawmakers: Afghan leader threatens to join Taliban
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 01:51 PM
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As I understand it, it's a quote through a third party. Kind of like letting Mitch McConnell paraphrase the President and then printing it.
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 05:44 PM
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Seems odd that he wouldn't release an explanation, but states he is still tight with the State Dept. Having called Clinton and all.

I understand it is hearsay, but the folks who heard it are more than one, and supposedly reliable as members of parliament.

I don't think that McConnell reporting that Obama was going to join the Taliban would be taken lightly. In fact some pundits would be besides themselves trying to keep from jumping out of their skins in response.

I guess distancing himself is political expedient, but this is sort of taking things a bit far.
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 07:06 PM
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Helps to have a family member in the opium trade… you get to sock puppet the government, appease the US and still get protection… So why not join the tali---pull start group.

We need to pull out all troops NOW! And any future issues that we deem “problematic” should be dealt with by way of “direct” interdiction… then move along… We are blowing away money on this crap hole.

Bob
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rcjetpilot View Post
Helps to have a family member in the opium trade… you get to sock puppet the government, appease the US and still get protection… So why not join the tali---pull start group.

We need to pull out all troops NOW! And any future issues that we deem “problematic” should be dealt with by way of “direct” interdiction… then move along… We are blowing away money on this crap hole.

Bob
From what I understand pulling back and interceding from outside, using more remote forms of control was on the table. The military, and the folks in charge over there presented the case that a solution like Iraq would work. In the end, it was Obama's decision to go along with the joint chiefs and in the field officers on the choice he made, but it is his choice, good or bad.

My worry was that a key element in using this type of action in Iraq is missing in Afghanistan, as we negotiated with Sunnis, paid them, to kick out Al Qaeda, these are the same folks who we had been fighting against in Iraq, and they were responsible for many American deaths and the use of IEDs.

In Afghanistan, we have no such inside faction with which to negotiate, it is us, our propped up home grown government over there, against a nearly invisible, when they want to be, Taliban force.

Something I saw on the show Frontline, entitled "Obama's War" made me believe we could never succeed over there.

The interaction between the US soldiers, and they are soldiers, not politicians, and the people in these towns and outposts, who have no first hand knowledge of any central government we support, only how the Taliban rules their lives, with threats and carrying out of death for those who talk to the Americans, they also close markets and eject the locals from their homes, and as hidden as the Taliban is, our forces are very visible.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamaswar/view/
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 07:44 PM
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My feeling is that we're done there... time to move along.

IN the future, regions that are problematic should be hammered with airpower to cripple there ability to function…

I’m basically tired of reading about regions of the planet that are not worth US blood. We tried, it was noble… it appears to me as not worth it.

NOW, drill for oil like there is no tomorrow and let Europe deal with its neighbors.


Bob
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rcjetpilot View Post
TT,
My feeling is that we're done there... time to move along.

IN the future, regions that are problematic should be hammered with airpower to cripple there ability to function…

I’m basically tired of reading about regions of the planet that are not worth US blood. We tried, it was noble… it appears to me as not worth it.

NOW, drill for oil like there is no tomorrow and let Europe deal with its neighbors.


Bob
There is a strategic importance to central Asia, regarding energy. Basically, I ain't saying we are there for the oil, but we are there and so is the oil, or the gas, or the ground to cross with a pipeline to get it out.

There is a coalition of countries that include China and the Russians with regard to this region. We had our fingers in that pie before 9/11. Look up Enron, and the gas powered electric plant Enron built in India. India has no natural gas. The plan was to pipe it through Afghanistan, and there were Americans in Afghanistan negotiating with the Taliban to get this pipe in place. 9/11 happened and the possibility of a pipeline was lost for years, and this became the proverbial straw that broke Enron's back. They were already in trouble, but Ken Lay's attempt to salvage the value invested in India was smashed that day and the rest is history. The plant in India was basically worthless now, due to the high cost of fuel for it. Some day, it could be important to India, and someday it will likely be fueled in the way that it was intended.

But the oil and gas reserves in this area are pretty massive and mostly untapped, unlike the middle east, which has been pumping it out for many decades.

Our energy independence will likely be required, if we end up abandoning the region.
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 08:07 PM
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TT,

Just my thoughts here… we are dealing with the heads of the 5 families that orchestrate pretty much all things. Obama is doing what Bush did, which is to follow the families that define the cost of a paper clip (movie stuff)…

My reason for this is following the google news alerts I set…

http://www.google.com/alerts?pz=1&cf...urce=news&cd=2

Returns a lot of dots…

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/articl...itary/19422217

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINN0216453520100402

http://world.globaltimes.cn/asia-pac...04/519132.html

I find Obama’s “drilling” crap a little suspicious…
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 08:14 PM
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Go watch the 1975 movie "Man Who Would be King" with Sean Connery and Michael Caine.

That country has never been any different....
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rcjetpilot View Post
TT,

Just my thoughts here… we are dealing with the heads of the 5 families that orchestrate pretty much all things. Obama is doing what Bush did, which is to follow the families that define the cost of a paper clip (movie stuff)…

My reason for this is following the google news alerts I set…

http://www.google.com/alerts?pz=1&cf...urce=news&cd=2

Returns a lot of dots…

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/articl...itary/19422217

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINN0216453520100402

http://world.globaltimes.cn/asia-pac...04/519132.html

I find Obama’s “drilling” crap a little suspicious…
I definitely think this offshore drilling is some bone being offered to someone, for support for something else.

The complicity of the Pentagon, with their 180 on drilling off Virginia is also a bone of some sort.

Added to that, is the fact that Obama has touted the development of alternative energy sources.

Where would government funds for stimulating the market to produce alternatives come from without a resounding wail on the right?

The defense department.

And there is good cause, as they are a huge user of fossil fuels and our defense in the future may have to rely on home grown energy. The Armed Forces are the window Obama needs to get alternative energy legislation passed.

Another bone that has been tossed out there is Nuclear Energy support, and I think we will likely see that bone polished up a bit as well.
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TimOBrien View Post
Go watch the 1975 movie "Man Who Would be King" with Sean Connery and Michael Caine.

That country has never been any different....
You mean Afghanistan? I didn't know that is where that movie took place. I liked that movie, but haven't seen it in years. I will have to try to catch it next time they show it on TCM.

There has never been a real central government in Afghanistan, if that is what you mean. In that respect, the whole concept is foreign, and it makes what we have as a goal just that much more difficult.
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 08:33 PM
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The point I'm making is "Our Man" is not the news we should be reading.

Bob
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Tree
There is a strategic importance to central Asia, regarding energy. Basically, I ain't saying we are there for the oil, but we are there and so is the oil, or the gas, or the ground to cross with a pipeline to get it out.
And wasn't Karzai somehow involved as the point man in a pre-9/11 Afghan pipeline project?

Not necessarily going back and obcessing about past US adventures, but one wonders what could have been done in Afghanistan if the stated post-9/11 goal of "getting BinLaden" and "rousting aQ" had been done and our resources had not been diverted to Iraq.

--Bill
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 04:30 AM
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And wasn't Karzai somehow involved as the point man in a pre-9/11 Afghan pipeline project?

Not necessarily going back and obcessing about past US adventures, but one wonders what could have been done in Afghanistan if the stated post-9/11 goal of "getting BinLaden" and "rousting aQ" had been done and our resources had not been diverted to Iraq.

--Bill
Yes, I remember reading about this pipeline, way back when, but don't recall anything about Karzai. But there was an earlier attempt at a pipeline by an oil company, I think Union 76. One of those names no longer used, that used to be familiar. That failed as well. I think that time it was due to the incohesiveness of the warlords and their different territories, in other words, same old, same old, no central government to secure a route. Sort of libertarian, I guess.

But we did pull out the special forces from Afghanistan to send them in to soften up Iraq. I don't know that I am as gung ho about that making the difference as much as I was at the time. Seems the only difference today, is Karzai is sitting in Kabul, at great expense to us, and the Taliban are still in control everywhere else. Everyone else just goes about their business as if nothing much happened. It is what they are used to. These people are smart, and tough, you would think we could find them some something meaningful to do, besides growing poppies.

The question of getting Bin Laden is something else all together. Who knows, but one thing for sure, more likely to get him if you keep the pressure on when the trail is warm, than pulling back. Obviously, we cannot know what would have happened.
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rcjetpilot View Post
TT,
The point I'm making is "Our Man" is not the news we should be reading.

Bob
I commented on what the articles said. So not sure what you are getting at. Karzai is costing us a fortune to keep in Kabul. I consider him important, and perhaps he just went off, I mean, he isn't exactly garnering much actual respect over there, except when he shows he is willing to bite the hand, so to speak. Maybe he has to play both sides.

I did see in wiki that his father was supposedly assassinated by the Taliban, but it also says he was an early supporter of theirs, before breaking with them, so not sure what the chronology is on that.
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