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Old Feb 26, 2011, 08:27 PM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
6,158 Posts
OK, I should have been clearer.

The risk is if you connect the positive WITHOUT a negative connection that is complete. This would happen if (for example) you use the supplied banana leads, plug the positive in before the negative AND the USB circuit to the PC is in place. The diagram in the Help section of the software explains.

With Deans or similar, the same thing can happen if you connect a live PS to a charger AND the positive pin connects before the negative one when you push them together. Again only if you have a complete USB connection as well.

Bottom line - connect the Deans THEN power up.Both the negative and positive parts of the circuit are complete before you apply the juice and there is no issue.

As an alternative, just for convenience I added a 40A automobile accessory switch in the positive line to the charger. It's handy to be able to turn it on and off without switching off the Power supply. The negative circuit is never disconnected.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by baratta930 View Post
What do you suggest if I plan to connect to a PC? Switch to bullets on my supply?

If I connect the charger to the power supply and then connect the USB cable to the computer and then turn on the power supply will that be ok?

thanks,

Berardino
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Old Feb 26, 2011, 08:50 PM
Registered User
United States, IL, Carbondale
Joined Jun 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604 View Post
OK, I should have been clearer.

The risk is if you connect the positive WITHOUT a negative connection that is complete. This would happen if (for example) you use the supplied banana leads, plug the positive in before the negative AND the USB circuit to the PC is in place. The diagram in the Help section of the software explains.

With Deans or similar, the same thing can happen if you connect a live PS to a charger AND the positive pin connects before the negative one when you push them together. Again only if you have a complete USB connection as well.

Bottom line - connect the Deans THEN power up.Both the negative and positive parts of the circuit are complete before you apply the juice and there is no issue.

As an alternative, just for convenience I added a 40A automobile accessory switch in the positive line to the charger. It's handy to be able to turn it on and off without switching off the Power supply. The negative circuit is never disconnected.

John
Ok, so I think I'm fine then but let me say it out loud (ok written down) just so you guys can confirm this is ok.

The following assumed Deans connectors. Also I'm using a PC.

1) Connect my power supply and charger together (both +ve and -ve connect at once). (I leave it always connected so this is a given).

2) Power on my charger (i.e. turn on the power supply)

3) Plug in the USB cable into the charger and PC

4) Launch the control software on the PC and enjoy

Is this ok? Would hate to fry this charger the first day I get it

Thanks,

Berardino
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 04:23 AM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
6,158 Posts
Berardino, that will work just fine. I had sometimes to power off the PS and power it up again (that is restart the Charger) to get the software to recognize the USB port in early days but I have a feeling Mr Mel fixed that particular behavior.

By the way - it isn't the Charger you will fry in any case. It would be the USB circuitry in your PC.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by baratta930 View Post
Ok, so I think I'm fine then but let me say it out loud (ok written down) just so you guys can confirm this is ok.

The following assumed Deans connectors. Also I'm using a PC.

1) Connect my power supply and charger together (both +ve and -ve connect at once). (I leave it always connected so this is a given).

2) Power on my charger (i.e. turn on the power supply)

3) Plug in the USB cable into the charger and PC

4) Launch the control software on the PC and enjoy

Is this ok? Would hate to fry this charger the first day I get it

Thanks,

Berardino
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 09:29 AM
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Screenshot... http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/desk.jpg Excuse the size I got another new monitor! Scroll!

Every time I charge this 13 cell pack here http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM-M...powerchair.htm

Scroll again, to see the size of the thing!

I get output voltage 0.000v on the software. And a strangely HUGE M/Ohm figure like 53247... The charger itself reads correctly. Both voltage and 12 M/Ohm or whatever.
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 09:37 AM
Electric Helis is my game
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Lidingo, Sweden
Joined Feb 2005
2,755 Posts
I'm out travelling, but I seriously doubt it's the chargers itself, you have driver problem as you posted before.

Same thing corrupts the data is my guess (and crashing/BDOD you computer)

USB communication in those chargers are not very complex, when you connect a new charger = windows re-loads stuff, so changes are THAT's whats fixing it rather than the new charger itself.

Test first powering the charger by one of your 12v batteries.

To know exactly what happens I need to get debug info, but I'm away for 2 weeks now.
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 12:57 PM
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repeat
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 01:00 PM
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BUGs??

Screenshot... http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/desk.jpg Excuse the size I got another new monitor! Scroll!

Every time I charge this 13 cell pack here http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM-M...powerchair.htm

Scroll again, to see the size of the thing!

I get output voltage 0.000v on the software. And a strangely HUGE M/Ohm figure like 53247... The charger itself reads correctly. Both voltage and 12 M/Ohm or whatever.
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 07:47 PM
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United States, IL, Carbondale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604 View Post
Berardino, that will work just fine. I had sometimes to power off the PS and power it up again (that is restart the Charger) to get the software to recognize the USB port in early days but I have a feeling Mr Mel fixed that particular behavior.

By the way - it isn't the Charger you will fry in any case. It would be the USB circuitry in your PC.

John
Frying my PC would suck even more

Thanks, my charger should be here tomorrow or Tuesday. Can't wait to play with it

Berardino
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Old Feb 28, 2011, 02:44 PM
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When charging, discharging or balancing a 13 cell pack there is no "output voltage" it just reads zero.

And likewise m/Ohms is either a very big number or 1.

Every time.

The graph displays pack voltage correctly with or without balancer. The charger displays volt correctly too. Its just in the Suite.

Screenshot if needed.
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Old Mar 01, 2011, 04:54 AM
Fastredrover
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Australia, NSW, Coffs Harbour
Joined Jun 2010
15 Posts
Burnt USB

Hi there.
I have managed to burn out the USB on my
new EOS0615i charger and notebook which was powered from house supply.Both charger leads were connected to the power supply at the time as per Hyperion's instructions.I was very aware of what I had to do.
The power supply is Maxamps's 24V.
http://www.maxamps.com/Power-Supply-24V.htm
I assume it is the same as this,
http://sites.google.com/site/tjinguy...ts/diy-24v-47a
or this
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1164359
I am yet to check but I don't think they insulate
the outer case of one supply like feathermerchant dose
When I check for a voltage from either + or - on the DC power supplies leads to house ground I get 12V, just polarity swaps.

Do you think this has caused the back flow through the USB's?
Maybe I need to insulate the outer case of a supply or float the DC-.

Thanks in advance.
John
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Old Mar 01, 2011, 06:55 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Joined Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastredrover View Post
I am yet to check but I don't think they insulate the outer case of one supply like feathermerchant does. When I check for a voltage from either + or - on the DC power supplies leads to house ground I get 12V, just polarity swaps.

Do you think this has caused the back flow through the USB's?
Maybe I need to insulate the outer case of a supply or float the DC-.
I think that's exactly what happened. The charged tried to ground itself through the USB port.

I have to check, but IIRC my 24VDC 350W Meanwell PS has the -V attached to chassis ground... which is connected to the center prong on the 120VAC plug.
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Old Mar 02, 2011, 03:35 PM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
6,158 Posts
This looks like a fairly dodgy implementation of the two-in-series supply solution to me. They fact they say it doesn't matter which power cord goes to which supply is a bit of a worry.

These MUST be insulated or they wouldn't work but what the resultant effect on a USB connected circuit is could be anything depending which way the power cords are plugged in. You might want to read the thread on connecting two in series if you want to understand some of the possible issues. Certainly my advice is that the grounded power PS must be the one that outputs the 0V side of the DC out.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...170241&page=29

and particularly Post# 183 of the thread.

John

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastredrover View Post
Hi there.
I have managed to burn out the USB on my
new EOS0615i charger and notebook which was powered from house supply.Both charger leads were connected to the power supply at the time as per Hyperion's instructions.I was very aware of what I had to do.
The power supply is Maxamps's 24V.
http://www.maxamps.com/Power-Supply-24V.htm
I assume it is the same as this,
http://sites.google.com/site/tjinguy...ts/diy-24v-47a
or this
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1164359
I am yet to check but I don't think they insulate
the outer case of one supply like feathermerchant dose
When I check for a voltage from either + or - on the DC power supplies leads to house ground I get 12V, just polarity swaps.

Do you think this has caused the back flow through the USB's?
Maybe I need to insulate the outer case of a supply or float the DC-.

Thanks in advance.
John
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 05:44 AM
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Joined May 2010
263 Posts
My benchtop power supply has 3 out terminals. NEG (Black) Earth (green) RED (pos)

Its 24v and 40 amp output. Adjustable.

So presumably the output is floating. And the EARTH is tied to mains earth.

Is it better to link the earth and the neg? Or just use it as I am doing now? (floating) Which is safer?

I would have thought that floating was safer. Not so sure now! I am already having USB problems although no blown ones due to this issue (yet)...
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 07:23 AM
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Joined May 2010
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OK Heres what me and my old sillyscope found.

When charging from a battery (24v in this case) or a quality 40 amp 30v FLOATING power supply, I was getting connectivity, and noise problems (resulting in lost USB connectivity) regularly. And sometimes not found problems. Difference between the floating neg voltage and the wall Earth (pc) on the power supply was regularly 2 noisy volts...

Earthing the Power supply negative, ~(and doing the same from a battery power supply) cured the problem totally on two chargers. They behaved worse when charging 13 or 14 cells at fulll 550 watts. The noise seemed to be the charger itself. Very short power leads helped. Long extended oned made it worse as mine were. Earthing the negative cures it. But leaves you open to possible earth loop issues so back to being careful again!
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Old Mar 08, 2011, 01:46 PM
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Joined Mar 2011
8 Posts
+1 on the series power supply problem. 720 SDUO / SiLabs 6.1.

HP DPS-600PB supplies. Hooked in series, with the case/ground floating on the first supply in the series. That's it - I've yet to fit it with capacitors or diodes. Still kind of researching the best way to do that.

Dell Latitude D600 notebook. Detects charger when AC on the notebook is unplugged, can't detect it when it is plugged in. Ferrite core on the USB didn't work.

Great thread! I eagerly anticipate a resolution. Until then, I guess I'll be buying a new notebook battery.
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