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Old Mar 30, 2010, 02:26 AM
SSM
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A Simple Quad

I'm planning to build a simple Quadrocopter based on 4/3 of Signguy's tricopter (and possibly other similar designs I have not referred to and so cannot acknowledge here).

I will use the H-4 or H4X swash mixing available in my (new) Futaba 10C - see picture below (from the Futaba manual).

Edit (October 2010): I now know that the Futaba 9CHP also provides 4-way 90 CCPM swash mixing. So you can build and operate a Simple Quad if you have a 9C, or another TX that offers this mixing. Furthermore, Vic20owner has shown (here) that you can also use 3-way 90 mixing (as on a Spektrum DX7 for example) plus one additional mix, to operate a Simple Quad.
H-4 mixing will give a " + " orientation and H4X will give me an " x " shape.

The + Quad would have a single tail rotor that is tilted for yaw and managed by a gyro. Aileron control would speed up and slow down just two motors -- left and right respectively, each managed by a gyro. Elevator control would speed up and slow down the single front and rear motors respectively, again each managed by a gyro.

The x Quad would have two (2) tail rotors, both tilting for yaw and managed by a single gyro. Aileron control would speed up and slow down all four motors, two on the left and two on the right respectively, all managed by a gyro. Elevator control would speed up and slow down the two front and two rear motors respectively, again all managed by a gyro.

I was originally planning to control yaw by speeding/slowing permanently tilted sets of rotors. Manual control of yaw would work with this method but I could not see how to enable one gyro to stabilize the yaw control with this set up. I could see a way using another four independent gyros but was not prepared to go so far. So I have chosen to use one (for +), or two (for x) tilting motors for manual and gyro control yaw.

I am waiting on my motor orders, having ordered some of the motors recommended. I already have the HK401B gyros and ESCs.

But before I go too far down this road, are the any comment or observations?

Has this been done heaps of times before? Am I on a loser? Any threads for me to read through on this?

And ... which of + or x configurations might be better? I must say that I prefer the x configuration because it will enable a better view between the front arms for camera work.

thanks,
Simon
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Last edited by SSM; Oct 08, 2010 at 05:53 AM.
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Old Mar 30, 2010, 07:49 AM
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This should become a very Interesting thread. I also want to build a cheap quad using my favorite building material.
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Old Mar 30, 2010, 08:37 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
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Simon,
Go for it! New builds always spur creativity There have been others in the past who have done gyro only quads and quads using servos for tilt on all arms, See the Lemiwinks and Joeling builds referenced in my Quadrocopter and Tricopter Mega Link Index
The tricopter gents have found that 4 gyros give the best response with one for yaw control. You will likely need 5 gyros for your build. Not many other Tx's have the Futaba 10C's mixing capability for a quad setup. Others have successfully used ClarkSt's Mini-mixer for this: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949507 and http://www.mini-mix.blogspot.com/
Cheers,
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSM View Post
I'm planning to build a simple Quadrocopter based on 4/3 of Signguy's tricopter (and possibly other similar designs I have not referred to and so cannot acknowledge here).

I will use the H-4 or H4X swash mixing available in my (new) Futaba 10C - see picture below (from the Futaba manual).

H-4 mixing will give a " + " orientation and H4X will give me an " x " shape.

The + Quad would have a single tail rotor that is tilted for yaw and managed by a gyro. Aileron control would speed up and slow down just two motors -- left and right respectively, each managed by a gyro. Elevator control would speed up and slow down the single front and rear motors respectively, again each managed by a gyro.

The x Quad would have two (2) tail rotors, both tilting for yaw and managed by a single gyro. Aileron control would speed up and slow down all four motors, two on the left and two on the right respectively, all managed by a gyro. Elevator control would speed up and slow down the two front and two rear motors respectively, again all managed by a gyro.

I was originally planning to control yaw by speeding/slowing permanently tilted sets of rotors. Manual control of yaw would work with this method but I could not see how to enable one gyro to stabilize the yaw control with this set up. I could see a way using another four independent gyros but was not prepared to go so far. So I have chosen to use one (for +), or two (for x) tilting motors for manual and gyro control yaw.

I am waiting on my motor orders, having ordered some of the motors recommended. I already have the HK401B gyros and ESCs.

But before I go too far down this road, are the any comment or observations?

Has this been done heaps of times before? Am I on a loser? Any threads for me to read through on this?

And ... which of + or x configurations might be better? I must say that I prefer the x configuration because it will enable a better view between the front arms for camera work.

thanks,
Simon
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Old Mar 30, 2010, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Simon,
Go for it! New builds always spur creativity There have been other that have done gyro only quads and quads using servos for tilt on all arms, See the Lemiwinks and Joeling builds referenced in my Quadrocopter and Tricopter Mega Link Index
The tricopter gents have found that 4 gyros give the best response with one for yaw control. You will likely need 5 gyros for your build.
Cheers,
Jim
In my opinion, he can do it with Three Gyros using a high precision V-tail mixer but again, it would be simpler using five.
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Old Mar 30, 2010, 08:51 AM
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Oh, forgot to mention, because the 401Bs are so cheap, it is cheaper to use them verse using the expensive V-tail mixers.
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Old Mar 30, 2010, 05:43 PM
SSM
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Demonstration of Futaba 10C swash mixing for Quads

Thanks for your replies guys, and support.

I thought I'd do a couple of demonstration videos of the two swash mixes on my Futaba 10C that I could use for a Quad.

The first is the H4X swash mix, suitable for a " x " set up - with two front motors and two back motors.

Warning: I am on Mode 1

H4X Quad Mix.MOV (1 min 27 sec)


The second is the H-4 swash mix. This is suitable for a " + " configuration of motors - one motor front and back and one on each side.

H-4 Quad Mix.MOV (1 min 4 sec)


First up (when my motors arrive .. ..) I think that I'll build and try the " x " Quad.

Simon
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Old Mar 30, 2010, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSM View Post

First up (when my motors arrive .. ..) I think that I'll build and try the " x " Quad.

Simon
I also like the X format because it offers the best camera view.
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 03:38 AM
SSM
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It may just work!

OK, I got my 4 motors and completed my build - presently in the X configuration (although it's only a couple of buttons on the Futaba 10C to change to +).

Here's a video of the tethered maiden test flight. At this stage, I am willing to hope that it seems to respond to controls as one would anticipate.

Simon

Quadcopter Maiden Test.MOV (1 min 16 sec)
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 03:52 AM
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OK, I got my 4 motors and completed my build...
Mode one. Hardcore.

Looking good. Set it free
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SSM View Post
OK, I got my 4 motors and completed my build - presently in the X configuration (although it's only a couple of buttons on the Futaba 10C to change to +).

Here's a video of the tethered maiden test flight. At this stage, I am willing to hope that it seems to respond to controls as one would anticipate.

Simon


I say, NOT TO BAD, it is actually Fantastic Awesome!!!

Congratulation!!!
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 08:09 AM
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I have not done this myself, but looking at the Flymentor setting, you should be able to use it for the X - Configuration.
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Last edited by rimshotcopter; Jun 06, 2011 at 10:45 PM.
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 11:52 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
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Nice preflight testing That looks like a very flyable setup to me. Great work. Get some air time now!
Cheers,
Jim
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 11:55 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
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RR,
I did not know the FM had a 90 degree swash setup. With that setting it certainly would work to self level a quad configuation. Looks like we'll be getting you into quads sooner that I thought
Cheers,
Jim
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Originally Posted by reverendrichie View Post
I have not done this myself, but looking at the Flymentor setting, you should be able to use it for the X - Configuration.
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 12:05 PM
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RR,
I did not know the FM had a 90 degree swash setup. With that setting it certainly would work to self level a quad configuation. Looks like we'll be getting you into quads sooner that I thought
Cheers,
Jim

Seriously, I want to build one ASAP, just need the funding, that is all. I have the time.
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSM View Post
OK, I got my 4 motors and completed my build - presently in the X configuration (although it's only a couple of buttons on the Futaba 10C to change to +).

Here's a video of the tethered maiden test flight. At this stage, I am willing to hope that it seems to respond to controls as one would anticipate.

Simon
Exellent!!!

Let it out!
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