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Old Mar 28, 2010, 05:30 PM
Whitespark
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Coffs Harbour ,Australia
Joined May 2009
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My first Four stroke a ASP FS 61

G'day guys,
I'm after advice again !
I just purchased my first four stroke, an ASP FS61 .

First questions are about it's crankcase nipple under the engine,is it there for crankcase pressure??do i need to use it ?? How do I go about using it??Or should i just block it off??

I've always used muffler pressure ,but i've always owned 2 stroke motors.

What's the best run in method and period ??

Do I use 10% Nitro and 18% lubricant for fuel like in my two strokes ??

I'm putting the FS61 it in a new 58" (46-51) ARF P51 mustang,( weight 6lbs ) recommendation on prop size??



cheers Rick.
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 05:38 PM
engine-a-holic
Portugal, Lisboa, Amadora
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The nipple is for crankcase ventilation, it should be open to atmosphere. You can use a smallpice of fuel tunbing to direct the oil away from the fuse, max is around 7cm.

The engine works good without muffler pressure, if you'd like.

The fuel you mention is good for this engine. For running-in be sure to use some castor oil.

Basic running-in consists in keeping it sloberring rich for the first tank, leaning a buit on the second and third tank of fuel. First 2 minutes should be run at a slow idle for lubricating and pre-mating the surfaces. After that open the throttle to 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 (1st and 2nd fuel tanks). Run it at WOT for 2 tanks leaning out until it reaches peak.

The final needle setting should end up at around 1 1/2 turns open, though it depends on engine.

This is a sweet engine, you'll like it.

Good luck!
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 05:40 PM
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Everett Wa.
Joined Jun 2001
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It is a vent LEAVE IT OPEN.
Don't the ASPs come with instruction any more?

I prefer the thermal cycle method to breaking in an engine rather that the straight slowly leaning out method. I also only use 100%castor oils during the initial run in.

Run the first 250 ml real rich at full throttle (open carb) not full power. Then reset the valves and take the opportunity to lube the valve train. Run the next 250 ml of fuel rich but pinch the fuel line to the card until you notice the engine's rpm change then let go allowing the engine to run rich. If the engine does not go rich open the hight speed needle. On the last 250 ml you can fly of better yet set the engine so that it is 1k rpm rich from peak and pinch the fuel line to peak and then allow to cool down richen. Repeat until the tank is dry. Check the valve lash readjust if there is and minor change. Send the engine back to the importer if there are major changes (this has been an issue with some Japanese engines) very unlikely. Adjust the engine for about 200 to 300 rpm off peak and just the idle for the smoothest transition. Oh, do change the plug after run in
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Last edited by Konrad; Mar 28, 2010 at 06:35 PM.
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 07:13 PM
Whitespark
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Coffs Harbour ,Australia
Joined May 2009
34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
It is a vent LEAVE IT OPEN.
Don't the ASPs come with instruction any more?

I prefer the thermal cycle method to breaking in an engine rather that the straight slowly leaning out method. I also only use 100%castor oils during the initial run in.

Run the first 250 ml real rich at full throttle (open carb) not full power. Then reset the valves and take the opportunity to lube the valve train. Run the next 250 ml of fuel rich but pinch the fuel line to the card until you notice the engine's rpm change then let go allowing the engine to run rich. If the engine does not go rich open the hight speed needle. On the last 250 ml you can fly of better yet set the engine so that it is 1k rpm rich from peak and pinch the fuel line to peak and then allow to cool down richen. Repeat until the tank is dry. Check the valve lash readjust if there is and minor change. Send the engine back to the importer if there are major changes (this has been an issue with some Japanese engines) very unlikely. Adjust the engine for about 200 to 300 rpm off peak and just the idle for the smoothest transition. Oh, do change the plug after run in
Thanks Konrad for the reply,
The One sheet of A4 paper that comes in the ASP Engine box, which is I suppose the manual, doesn't mention anything about 4 strokes only 2 stoke's and their carby settings , then alot about safety issues.Very little information about my engine.

I've never owned or pulled apart a four stroke before so this may sound dumb!

Konrad Quote:-"Then reset the valves and take the opportunity to lube the valve train",,, O.K.. how do I go about resetting valves and lubing the valve train ??

Cheers Rick
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 07:19 PM
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Everett Wa.
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There has to be a set of instructions somewhere. Ether from your distributor of on the web in a PDF format. I'm sorry, I'm in a bit of a dog fight here to spend any time looking this information up for you.

All the best,
Konrad
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 07:24 PM
Whitespark
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Coffs Harbour ,Australia
Joined May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patxipt View Post
The nipple is for crankcase ventilation, it should be open to atmosphere. You can use a smallpice of fuel tunbing to direct the oil away from the fuse, max is around 7cm.

The engine works good without muffler pressure, if you'd like.

The fuel you mention is good for this engine. For running-in be sure to use some castor oil.

Basic running-in consists in keeping it sloberring rich for the first tank, leaning a buit on the second and third tank of fuel. First 2 minutes should be run at a slow idle for lubricating and pre-mating the surfaces. After that open the throttle to 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 (1st and 2nd fuel tanks). Run it at WOT for 2 tanks leaning out until it reaches peak.

The final needle setting should end up at around 1 1/2 turns open, though it depends on engine.

This is a sweet engine, you'll like it.

Good luck!
Thanks Patxipt,
for the info,

Just a thought ! The engine does'nt at first appearence after I lubricated it and just turning over in my hand ,have alot of compression compared to say my OS.FX46 or Thunder Tiger Pro46,although if you block the crankcase nipple it increases. Is this normal for 4 strokes .

P.S. Off course I'll leave a bleed tube of the crankcase nipple now and have it open!

P.S.S. I actually always run 5% castor 13% synthetic(cool power)in my fuel mix.

Cheers Rick.
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Old Mar 29, 2010, 04:24 PM
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I have my experiences with a couple of ASP 61 engines I helped a guy get to work, starting on page 4 of this thread here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=asp+61&page=4
I have some pics posted about it too.
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Old May 24, 2010, 01:44 AM
Whitespark
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Coffs Harbour ,Australia
Joined May 2009
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G'day guys,
Well my new P51 got into the air last weekend with the new
ASP-FS61 out front..

The ASP FS61 has had 3 hours approx. run time .The first 1.5 hours in a test bench running in on 20% castor oil and the last 1.5hours in plane flying on 15% coolpower and 5% castor oil lubricant. I've been flying and running in using a 12x6 master airscrew scimitar prop and fuel as stated 20% lubricant,10% nitro and 70% methanol.Last fight on the weekend I ran the engine at it's peak , back two clicks on the groung but with nose up tacho meter says she hit 10,450rpm .I'm also using a ASP four stroke glow plug.

My last flight impression was that I'm slightly under powered.
The P51 58inch wingspan mustang weighs 89oz's or 5.4lb or 2.5kg.So she's under weight according to the kit manufacturers that states 6lb .The engine is running according to reviews i've read around the normal maximum rpm for the ASP-FS61, 10,500rpm .The model straight of the rank flys beautifully with 2 clicks of aleron trim and no adjustment on elevator trim at all.It even flys inverted with just about no down elevator on the stick (very slight down decent at full throttle when inverted "thumbs off"),perfect.

So what can i do to solve my power problem??

Increase propellar to 12x8 scimitar ?
Increase Nitro in fuel to say 15% ?
Replace to a hotter glow plug for the extra nitro ?


"Will any of the above help"?

Maybe I should wait for more run in time ?


If you guys have any advice as this thread states this is my first Four stroke "so i'm really in the woods". I have only had 2 strokes to compare with .In comparison my scale Extra 300L with slightly less wing area at 57" and weighs 95oz,s or 5lb.9 or 2.7kg flys with my old 2 stroke O.S 46 sf out front and screams through the air with no lack of power.

I thought the ASP FS61 would have had more power than my old OS 46 two strokes but i'm beginning to wonder ??

Mav'
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Old May 24, 2010, 07:43 AM
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Well you could try 15% nitro or even some 20% to see what would happen.
The 10,500 rpms is max rpms when the engine is unloaded in the air. If you are getting 10,500 rpms on the ground in a static test, then the prop is too small.
What prop are you currently running on the engine?
The 12x8 sounds about right. it ought to turn a little around 9,000 rpms on the ground in a static test.

Since the engine is based on a older OS design it doesnt develop the power of the more improved engines, you might have to go with a OS72, of which OS improved a lot along the way. Maybe the Magnum 70 is worth a look, if you go that route.

A two cycle engine develops a lot of power. The 2 cycle has a power stroke on each revolution versus the power stroke on every other revolution in a 4 cycle engine. Now a 2 cycle isn't twice as powerful, but at certain rpms etc. they can approach it. So it isn't surprising to see a 46 two cycle development more power than a 4 cycle does. One thing though is the 2 cycle develops its power at much higher rpms than thr 4 cycle does. So since 2 cycles are tuned to run good at higher RPMs the 2 cycle engine cannot turn as large a prop that a 4 cycle can.
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Old May 24, 2010, 09:39 AM
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I think most people would say your engine is on the small side for a four stroke in a 5 1/2 lb plane, if you are looking for strong sport plane performance. On the other hand, even a Mustang couldn't fly the way our sport planes do. If you want scale-like performance, you're probably about there.

Beyond that, experiment with props. A 13x4 or 13x5 might surprise you. Slower, but could give you better climb, along with better landings and quicker take-offs. I suspect a 12x8 is a bit much for this engine, but a 12x7 might give you a little more speed, if that is what you're looking for. Props are way cheaper than planes and engines, so buy some and see how they do.

Jim
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Old May 24, 2010, 04:54 PM
NM2K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard bait View Post
I think most people would say your engine is on the small side for a four stroke in a 5 1/2 lb plane, if you are looking for strong sport plane performance. On the other hand, even a Mustang couldn't fly the way our sport planes do. If you want scale-like performance, you're probably about there.

Beyond that, experiment with props. A 13x4 or 13x5 might surprise you. Slower, but could give you better climb, along with better landings and quicker take-offs. I suspect a 12x8 is a bit much for this engine, but a 12x7 might give you a little more speed, if that is what you're looking for. Props are way cheaper than planes and engines, so buy some and see how they do.

Jim


I agree with Buzzard Bait. You have to ignore those folks that are preaching that the .61 four-stroke has the same power output as the .61 two-stroke that the model was designed for originally. They do not and by a considerable margin. I'd skip right over the .70, which weighs nearly as much as a .91, and go directly to the Sanye .91 four-stroke (Magnum, ASP, SC) which is a direct replacement for a .61 two-stroke.


Ed Cregger
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Old May 25, 2010, 01:58 AM
Whitespark
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Coffs Harbour ,Australia
Joined May 2009
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Thanks for all the reply guys.
Sounds like I'm slightly under strength with a ASP FS61 four stroke.The only disadvantage in going up to a ASP FS91 is it's extra weight that the model would carry ,its half as heavy again as the ASP-FS61 450grams to 660grams or roughly the FS61 is 16oz's and the FS91 is 24oz's.

That means the C of G will move forwood and i'll have to put approx 4 oz's of weight on the tail as well to move it back,overall an extra 12oz's,taking the model from 89 oz's to 101 oz's.This then puts more speed on landings and my stall speed has increased.Also more stress on the 46 size aircrafts retract landing system.Meaning everthing would have to be beefed up to take the extra weight.

So Sounds like I'll try the cheaper alternatives at first and pull of my 12x6 scimitar prop and then experiment with 13x4,13x5,12x7 and 12x8 props.I'll also make up a litre of fuel with extra nitro taking it up to 15% from 10%.If I'm still unhappy i'll probably put in my spare reasonable new 46 2stroke Thunder Tiger pro as a power plant.

Cheers mav'
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Old May 25, 2010, 11:52 AM
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If you go with a different engine, I would suggest a SAITO instead. The SAITO's weigh a lot less than the other 4 cycle engine designs. Years ago, I wanted some real power on a large 40 size pattern plane I had, so I installed a SAITO 80 on it. Previously I was using a SAITO 65 and it felt a little anemic to me. The SAITO 80 worked out nicely. Now it is overpowered. Saito engines also tend to have smaller crankcase sizes, so one can install them in planes that the bigger engine designs do not fit well in. I still fly that same plane today with the Saito 80 on it.
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Old May 25, 2010, 06:38 PM
Whitespark
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Coffs Harbour ,Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlwb View Post
If you go with a different engine, I would suggest a SAITO instead. The SAITO's weigh a lot less than the other 4 cycle engine designs. Years ago, I wanted some real power on a large 40 size pattern plane I had, so I installed a SAITO 80 on it. Previously I was using a SAITO 65 and it felt a little anemic to me. The SAITO 80 worked out nicely. Now it is overpowered. Saito engines also tend to have smaller crankcase sizes, so one can install them in planes that the bigger engine designs do not fit well in. I still fly that same plane today with the Saito 80 on it.
G'day earlwb,
Actually after replying yesterday I visited my mate who owns a hobby shop down the road and chatted to him about it...He has a 46 size P51 mustang same size and approx weight as mine which he had an electric in untill a month ago,he's decided next engine for his 92Oz P51 mustang will be a Thunder tiger 75 4stroke .When we looked up its specs like the Saito's it's light in comparisons to most 4strokes of similar size.Its weight is only
457grams only 7 grams heavier than my ASP-FS61 at 450.

I'll check out the saito's again as well ,I know from checking out prices a few months back the saito's were the dearest out of most the 4 stroke engines but had the best rep' for reliability and power.
I'm thinking the TT 75 4stroke at $250US/$300AUD is apretty affordable price.

Rick.
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Old May 26, 2010, 04:15 AM
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I have a similar sized P51 but mine is a Dego Red variant, anyhow I was going to get a 70 sized 4-stroke for it like two of my friends did, but came across a Saito 82 used for $190 so I scoffed it right up and WOW am I glad i did, lighter than the 70's my friends have and so much extra power if I need it, rarely use full power but on a pass I'll open it up with a 13x8 and this thing moves right out.

Dauntae
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