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Old Apr 11, 2012, 03:03 AM
Tom, Oslo, Norway
Oslo, Norway
Joined Apr 2007
66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawy View Post
My main problem ist that I'm not used to grafic works and I need to buy a better software the very basics (paint) I have here.
Any suggestions on what to look for ....for dummies


rawy
I'm new to graphic work, too. The free Open Office Draw program has everything I need.
http://www.openoffice.org/
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 09:08 AM
Addicted to building...
Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
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I've heard a lot about Open Office and never tried it. I am tired of MS always wanting more and more $$$$$ for everything. Going to check that out, thanks!

Fred
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 12:27 PM
e-powered foam
rawy's Avatar
swiss watch makers area
Joined Dec 2002
812 Posts
downloaded a freeware "Phierha" this morning but without real explanation it seems too complicated for my level already ...

...there's still some job on the bench I'll check that out later
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 06:26 PM
Hope is not a Strategy
Lojik's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Caroline Springs
Joined Apr 2011
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Awesome guide, I have a large scale RAF Short Tucano in the works and will be using this method for its decals, will post some pics when I get to that stage.
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 07:56 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojik View Post
Awesome guide, I have a large scale RAF Short Tucano in the works and will be using this method for its decals, will post some pics when I get to that stage.
Thank you and looking forward to seeing that! Should be a really great looking color scheme for sure.

Fred
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:27 PM
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Canada, ON, Mississauga
Joined Apr 2011
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I was looking for ages for appropriate sized decals for my TDM Il-2 Sturmovik. This was an awesome tutorial. I did not use the Minwax, but did use watered down white glue to adhere them to the model.

Thanks for this tutorial! I will be using this again for my Ziroli P-61.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 10:37 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducky22 View Post
I was looking for ages for appropriate sized decals for my TDM Il-2 Sturmovik. This was an awesome tutorial. I did not use the Minwax, but did use watered down white glue to adhere them to the model.

Thanks for this tutorial! I will be using this again for my Ziroli P-61.
Wow, the Il-2 Sturmovik is one of my favorite airplanes! That looks sooooo good. I haven't made an Il-2 yet, but now I have to. Thanks for sharing your experiance and especially your photos! Wow, wow, wow. I really like that!

Fred
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 05:57 AM
Damn this gets addictive.
Thechittyfather's Avatar
United Kingdom
Joined Oct 2011
530 Posts
Hi Fred

Thanks for the great thread. I've been looking for a new method for decals. I tried water slide on a 6mm EPP Sumo with some success at first but after a month or so the decals started to shrink and deformed the foam.
Where I store the planes can get quite warm and I think this might be part of the problem. I'm keen to try tissue next and plan to grab some today. Do you know if the glues and sprays you mention are available in the uk?
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 08:50 AM
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vtdiy's Avatar
Southern Vermont
Joined Feb 2007
3,028 Posts
ChittyFather, there is much mistaken information about Minwax Polycrylic, particularly when described as "WBPU" which stands for "water based polyurethane".

Minwax Polycrylic is NOT a water based polyurethane. It is an acrylic varnish. Acrylic paints and varnishes are what many over here call "Latex" paint, and/or artist's acrylic or "polymer" paint.

So to answer one part of your question, you can replace the Minwax Polycrylic with any acrylic varnish (they are always water based). Acrylic varnishes are much more common in art supply stores than elsewhere, with the unusual exception of Minwax Polycrylic here.

So try looking in an art supply store for an acrylic painting varnish (used to protect acrylic paintings). Or, failing that, straight acrylic artist's medium is nearly the same thing, though probably without UV inhibitors.

One other possibility would be ordinary acrylic ("latex") housepaint which has not yet been mixed with color (pigment). These generally have white pre-mixed in with them (which you don't want) except for the type used for "deep" colors. Sometimes called over here "deep tint base". That type has no white pre-mixed in it, and is essentially pure acrylic medium, probably with UV inhibitors if of exterior type.

Hope this helps. Sorry Freddie for butting in!

ps. Real polyurethanes, and water dispersed polyurethanes, are generally gold in color, and yellow further on exposure to sunlight. Acrylics, on the other hand are water clear. Regular polyurethanes will eat foam. Some water dispersed (not based) polyurethanes will not, but they definitely are different than acrylics, and may not mix well with Freddie's decal mix. They are dispersions (emulsions) in water.
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
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Vtdiy,

No problem, in fact I appreciate all the effort and you always have great info to share. We have had the WBPU discussion and you are spot on. My first encounter with water based clear coatings was back in the mid 1980's, and was acquired from a craft dealer as a finish for stained and painted wood crafts. So to TCF, I don't know what they sell it as in the UK, but since it is more environmentally friendly it has to exist.

EPP is different, and has so much air and squish to it. Decals by nature get stiff. Stiff on a flexable surface may be disaster??? I masked and painted markings on EPP and EPO in the past, so I don't know.

My favorite glue stick is from UHU a German brand, available here, should also be in the UK. My favorite attachment is probably white glue, and that should be world wide. As far as Krylon goes, probably not, but it is a rattle can spray paint that has to be enamel or similar, but in a very fast dry formula using acetone and other solvents. I have substituted other brands at times that gave acceptable results. Lacquer base stuff is good too, just need to test with your inks and materials.

Let us know how you fair, or ask further questions if you have any.

Fred
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 02:31 PM
Damn this gets addictive.
Thechittyfather's Avatar
United Kingdom
Joined Oct 2011
530 Posts
Cheers for the info gents.
I tracked down some acrylic varnish to day and a selection of glues including a permanent contact spray that might be good. Oddly I struggled to get tissue which I didn't think would be a problem. I'll have to keep looking. In the mean time I picked up some very fine tracing paper that might do the job. I'll let you know how it goes.
TCF
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 02:38 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
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The tissue here is used to wrap gifts, like insert in box, place gift, fold over. Sometimes packing material. The wall mart gift sectons has it. UK I don't know. Of course, the covering tissue for model airplanes is similar, but I sure don't use Eskay or other $$$$$ types. I get 20-100 sheets for a US Dollar or two. UK I don't know, but world wide many things exist, just called something else.

Good luck, and thank you too for the feed back.

Fred
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 03:29 PM
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vtdiy's Avatar
Southern Vermont
Joined Feb 2007
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Freddie, Krylon is actually lacquer -- not enamel. It thins with lacquer thinner or acetone, etc, not mineral spirits or turpentine as true enamels do.

Okay here's the breakdown of common paint families:

1.)shellacs -- thins with alcohol -- extremely fast drying, thin coating low buildup. Earlier relative of the lacquer family

2.) lacquers and dopes, Krylon, automotive lacquer finishes, etc. -- thin with lacquer thinner, acetone, etc -- extremely fast drying, thin coating, tougher than shellac. The thinners are more powerful (and dangerous). Eats polystyrene foam.

3.) oil paints and conventional varnishes, Rustoleum, what used to be called "enamel", etc. -- oil based -- thin with mineral spirits, turpentine, etc. Slow drying. Tend to apply more thickly. May or may not eat polystyrene foam. Some enamels are designed to work with plastic without melting it (Testors plastic model paints for instance) depends largely on what they are thinned with by the mfr and user. Higher strength thinners will eat foam.

4.) Polyurethane enamels and varnishes -- similar to, but superior performance to conventional enamels and varnishes -- likely to eat polystyrene foam except for some water -dispersed polyurethanes -- the only true "WBPU" -- actually fairly rare in foam model building.

5.) Acrylic paints, acrylic enamels, acrylic varnishes and coatings, Minwax Polycrylic, Future floor wax, "latex" house paint, etc. -- true waterbased acrylic medium paints and varnishes. Won't eat polystyrene foam. Don't mix with other types of paints above.

Also:

For a Krylon "Crystal Clear" spray replacement for pre-treating Freddies printed decals try any spray clear lacquer. Or possibly even a brushed on lacquer. Lacquers and Dopes are essentially similar, so you could also try a spray dope or even experiment with brush on. ( BTW, wood or balsa sanding sealers can also be made from lacquer or dope with talc baby powder mixed in. But lacquer should never be used on polystyrene foam.)

Unfortunately usage continues to change -- enamel used to mean oil based color paint. Now acrylics (water-based) are called acrylic enamel. Or even just enamel. So identifying what you've got becomes harder! Also some lacquers are now called acrylic lacquer -- they aren't water based acrylic paints though, but true lacquers, and will eat foam, so watch out for these tricky terms!

If a paint or finish label says "water cleanup" it is a safe bet it's an acrylic finish.
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 04:08 PM
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Freddie B's Avatar
Omaha Nebraska
Joined Feb 2006
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Vtdiy,

I knew we could count on you. This is a great referance on paints and should be bookmarked. I suspected something with the Krylon because I coat the back of decals with Lacquar often (duh ). Also seems a bit brilttle on fiberglass parts if you drop them! (don't ask )

I remember reading a formula for milk paint, like in the good old days, remember White Lead (Lead in paint was everywhere), Fish Oil in pant made it a real good, long lasting variety, and other things younger people would think strange.

Guess most people don't understand that paint was mankinds greatest invention. Without it, homes, cars, and just about every man made object would go back to nature really fast without the protection paint provides.

Thanks again.

Fred
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 05:53 PM
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vtdiy's Avatar
Southern Vermont
Joined Feb 2007
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Some interesting facts that may also be of use:

Shellac and lacquer can both be re-dissolved in their respective thinners. A cracked shellac finish (typical on some older weathered furniture) can be re-amalgamated by rubbing with some denatured alcohol (methylated spirits to you Brits) on a cotton ball and made to look new again without stripping. This is because lacquers and shellacs simply evaporate their thinner to "dry".

Oil based enamel, however cannot do the same thing. It undergoes a chemical change when it dries. The oils it contains oxidize and become hard. It doesn't "dry" in the same sense that shellac and lacquer do. It polymerizes. Thus you need a paint stripper to remove it, and the stripper softens and breaks up the paint. It is then permanently changed and cannot be re-used. The drying oxidizing process also explains why enamels take a lot longer to dry than lacquers and shellacs, with their very volatile thinners. It also explains why enamels apply thicker than lacquers. The oil medium stays put, rather than evaporating, like lacquer thinner.

Acrylics and polyurethane also polymerize rather than "dry".

I have made paint for painting oil paintings by grinding pigment powder with a glass muller on a sheet of plate glass, by hand, with a little linseed oil. High quality artist's oil paints are the same thing. Pure pigment and linseed oil only. Except white which uses safflower oil.

Boiled linseed oil polymerizes quickly and so is used in paint. Raw linseed oil does not, and would take forever to dry.

Boiled linseed oil is no longer boiled, but has a chemical additive which makes it oxidize quickly. It is just labeled "boiled" because of the tradition.

Lacquer finishes are very thin, so are usually made up of many coats. Freddie does this with the decals.

Fish oil is non-drying, so plasticizes an enamel which is made up of mainly drying oils. It also protects metal because it stays oil. Rustoleum may still have fish oil in it. I'm not sure.

Oleum means oil.

Linoleum used linseed oil as a base.
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