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Old Feb 16, 2013, 09:54 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
6,919 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoov128 View Post
..

Edit: north, I said $250 cause that's what horizonhobby.com lists for archer bnf. Must be a lot better deals elsewhere.
Here ya go, mang ...

These are the regular prices... other stores should be consistent, I believe they have agreements.

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Old Feb 16, 2013, 09:56 PM
Exodus 4:13
bhoov128's Avatar
United States, FL, Davenport
Joined May 2012
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pushed refresh and it popped out... I must have been looking repeatedly at a cached page. Oops! Thanks north
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 10:46 PM
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DeBary, FL
Joined Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by Greg Head View Post
Couple noob questions again.
does battery placement really effect flight that much, the batteries are tiny?
'What bhoov said,' and here's the math.

My Champ here is 43.4g without battery, and battery is 4.2g. That's conveniently appx. 10%. So yeah moving that significant -%- of total weight makes a difference.

But whether you notice it 'much' really depends on conditions and flying style. The lower the wind conditions, the more apparent CG variation will seem to be. I almost *NEVER* have 'zero wind' conditions AAMOF was flying it for 6 months before I had a day with low enough wind to find out what 'trim' really meant. Most days I do notice a little how behavior varies during loops, stalls, snap rolls, given slight variation in battery placement, but still it's usually just so much stick action dealing with the -wind- that the fine effects of CG don't matter much.

It's also harder to notice CG variation because the heavy dihedral makes Champ very tip-stall-free and nearly immune. In a 10mph wind, holding a harrier hover at 'exactly this' throttle and 'exactly this' elevator, vs 'exactly that' throttle/elevator, is very difficult to tell the difference moving the CG 1/8" either way.

At the other end of the scale, the pro class pattern people I see setting up and literally -calibrating- their 50# planes, they measure, for example, h-stab incidence to the fraction of degree. But, they're flying with very exacting very extreme precision and repeatability.

Every plane, condition, maneuver, and pilot preference does have that proverbial sweet spot and when you -find- it can be an epiphany moment.

Here's a way to test CG stuff, by doing exactly the same thing many times, with gauged variations.

Move battery to one end of the range that you tend to fly it. Do one whole flight of nothing but loops. Pay attention to what speed you're going into the loop, and/or what angle you're diving into it. You should be able to do a few dozen loops. Try to think about and remember how Champ is behaving at different points in the loop, going in, inverted, and coming out.

Now, move the battery to the opposite end of the CG range you're used to, and do the same exercise of a few dozen loops. At each point in a typical loop, going in, inverted, and coming out, think about how it behaves -differently- from the previous flight. You'll feel whether each aspect of the loop feels more/less comfortable and in control, whether it feels/looks smoother.

Now another flight with the battery in the -center- of the two extreme CG points. Do the loops exercise again. Think about whether this loops feel more/less comfortable and in control as -compared- to the two previous flights.

Compared to the last battery position, think about which of the other two positions feels 'better' either forward or backward. Now move the battery halfway between the last battery position, and the one that feels better. Repeat loops test. Don't know if

Never mind what the spec says. Given all that subjective data you'll be able to find the exact spot where -you- prefer the CG to be at. Static/ground trim is just a starting point. Flight trim is where it counts and varies from one plane to the next even if they're exactly the same, conditions, and flying style preferences.

I didn't learn this stuff with Champ but with Slow Stick. I was -constantly- breaking, repairing, strengthening, improving it. With each variation it felt differently. When a change felt -worse- I'd ask the more experienced guys what to do to adjust it. They'd hear what I said and watch it fly and say 'move CG this/that way' or 'increase/decrease wing incidence' or 'increase surface travel.'

For the REALLY dirty gritty plane tuning details see http://www.rcacf.com/RC_Advice.htm Now most of these tests/fixes aren't appropriate to Champ because they involve things that Champ can't even do. LOL! But you'll get an idea of how to think through plane tuning, and be prepared for what's down the road with your future planes(s).
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 01:11 AM
Addict.
United States, NY, Binghamton
Joined Jul 2010
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Originally Posted by bradymartin View Post
well excuse me i hope i have your forgiveness. i didnt realize i had committed such a sinful crime. the internet is indeed serious business. proceed with your insignificant all knowing posts, wise man full of wisdom. you are probably the next aristotle or perhaps plato.

anyway, please dont address me again.

everyone else yeah i should have just left the posts as is.
Wow, that is not the way to find help in a forum filled with people that volunteer their expertise for no cost. You may want to check your attitude, there's no need to behave like a child.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 06:49 AM
Like a Tortoise
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Joined Jan 2013
144 Posts
Schools out, and there is an ignore button but then I miss the show here.

Welcome to the champ doam
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 07:25 AM
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Hilton (Rochester), NY
Joined Mar 2008
9,885 Posts
You can easily spend a small fortune on heli's and also spend a lot of time and money fixing them. The newest features and the constant need to go bigger don't come cheap. UM planes fit an area that a lot of people feel comfortable with. If nothing else, the boxes they come in usually are an ideal way to transport them to a local field. Bigger planes aren't as easy to move around. You can get into a 4-channel plane for very little more than the price of the Champ, especially if you buy it as BNF. Have a look at the PZ P-51 Mustang.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:18 AM
Fly em if ya got em.
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Winder Ga
Joined Sep 2008
12,040 Posts
Greg, the UM (small) T-28 was my reccomendation for a secound plane. You learn the 4th channel well with it. But, now, honestlly, I don't know anymore. The AS3X systems are just too (good) sounding. Think of it this way...On your copters, you had a gyro for the tail? You might have bought (invested) in the flight systems? Or FBL systems? Well, all that really was, two more gyro's linked up. One for ail, one for ele. The AS3X is a 3 gyro board that really is susposed to help.
Lee
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:21 AM
Exodus 4:13
bhoov128's Avatar
United States, FL, Davenport
Joined May 2012
8,780 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by leethetreeguy View Post
Greg, the UM (small) T-28 was my reccomendation for a secound plane. You learn the 4th channel well with it. But, now, honestlly, I don't know anymore. The AS3X systems are just too (good) sounding. Think of it this way...On your copters, you had a gyro for the tail? You might have bought (invested) in the flight systems? Or FBL systems? Well, all that really was, two more gyro's linked up. One for ail, one for ele. The AS3X is a 3 gyro board that really is susposed to help.
Lee
I agree. I'd go with a UM Spitfire or UM P-40 Warhawk. My P-51 is begging for a RCBabbel SX Motor and a Spitfire AS3X brick.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:43 AM
Newbe learning everyday!
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United States, OH, Parma Heights
Joined Aug 2012
717 Posts
I put a as3x board and a rcbabbel motor in my t-28 and it is by far my favorite micro. Flight times are short but it's been cold and I really haven't flown it with this set up in warm weather yet. Once the babbel motor breaks in ( about 20 flights), it really does well. These motors really make a big difference. I'm also using the 5043 prop and adapter he sells. I bought another set up from him and tried it in my champ, but can't get it to fly right. I think I may put it in my p-51 and put the p-51 motor in the champ. I'm doing a new fuse on the champ because I think I've pulled the gear box out too many times and now the gear box angle is off making it impossible to fly. It just wants to climb almost verticle at anything past 1/4 throttle. I have to use almost full down elevator to keep it level, which makes it very difficult to fly.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 05:25 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
6,919 Posts
The HZ Glasair I mentioned has gyros (2 axis)

We just need to hound HH to offer a BNF.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 10:59 PM
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Joined Aug 2012
546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
You can easily spend a small fortune on heli's and also spend a lot of time and money fixing them. The newest features and the constant need to go bigger don't come cheap. UM planes fit an area that a lot of people feel comfortable with. If nothing else, the boxes they come in usually are an ideal way to transport them to a local field. Bigger planes aren't as easy to move around. You can get into a 4-channel plane for very little more than the price of the Champ, especially if you buy it as BNF. Have a look at the PZ P-51 Mustang.
I like the price, is this a good first 4ch plane?
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:38 AM
BMFA 190658
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United Kingdom, Yeadon
Joined Mar 2007
4,519 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_of_49 View Post
Greg, check out the new Parkzone Archer and Hobbyzone Glasair for a first 4 -channel plane... I am (especially the Glasair... it's designed to be someone's first plane... period)

unless you like the trojan... I don't.

There are threads here for both mentioned planes.
That's exactly how I feel!
I'm not keen on the looks of a Trojan but I wanted a tricycle easy flyer for lazy days.

I've always liked the Piper Cherokee which is basically an Archer and would have got one in a flash if it were out a few months ago....


Tony
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:41 AM
I am GBLynden
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United States, WA, Lynden
Joined Mar 2011
2,848 Posts
I love the looks and the way the T-28 flies. I learn 4-channel on the P-51, but like to fly the T-28 a lot more.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:15 AM
Newbe learning everyday!
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United States, OH, Parma Heights
Joined Aug 2012
717 Posts
+ 1 on the t-28, a great plane!
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:51 AM
Registered User
kodak_jack's Avatar
Hilton (Rochester), NY
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Head View Post
I like the price, is this a good first 4ch plane?
I guess I'll be finding out since I swapped an MQX for a P-51. Something is going on with a lot of RC stuff lately hinting it's time for new and improved models coming out. It would be nice to have a lot of favorite planes and heli's go brushless and/ or 3 axis gyros.
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