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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:04 AM
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DeBary, FL
Joined Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by bradymartin View Post
just maidened my new champ at the park. watching it whiz by above and seeing its shadow go by was very cool.
Excellent. You're hooked.

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couple of things. i either had a hard time getting the cog correct or the 5mph and below winds didnt help the plane fly perfectlfy balanced like ive seen in the videos. anyhow i flew three batteries through it, the first one flew nice and level and then maybe the wind picked up or i just didnt get the cog right the next couple of batteries.
Ultramicro CGs are measured in mm, appx. 1.5/16th inch. Larger scale planes are measured in quarter inches. My Sig Senior is appx. 100x heavier than Champ, and if CG 'looks like about 1/4 chord' it'll probably fly fine.

So yes you need to try to place Champ battery as -repeatedly- accurately as possible.

Champ is heavily undercambered, a very 'lifty' wing, meaning very slight variation in throttle will affect pitch. At on notch on the stick it might travel level, yet just one notch up will make it climb slightly and on notch down make it descend slightly.

The other effect is varying wind movement. Senior shrugs off minor variations that can pitch Champ drastically up or down. The wind is at its' simplest a 'moving body of air' - but it's not uniform/homogenous. Pour milk into coffee and you see all the swirls and loops on the top surface of the liquid. Well, in air the same thing is going on except it's happening in three dimensions. In even just slightly gusty breeze pressure variations are hitting the Champ from top, bottom, left, right, front and back constantly. Those variations can happen every few feet or every few yards. At its' worst Champ looks like it's being thrown around in a washing machine keeping the nose pointed 'mostly up' and 'vaguely in that direction.' I flew Champ for 6 months before I found out what 'trim' *meant*!! And days like that are few and verrrry far between.

It's very easy to doink the tail surfaces and whack out the trim too. Inspect surfaces every time you take it out of the box, -and- take another look just before launch just to be safer.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:54 AM
Like a Tortoise
hare's Avatar
Joined Jan 2013
144 Posts
Ah when caffeen does not do it, the champ does, and the champ is having a Long Holiday, on all of us/ So where we hang and share some stories, till its a ghost town, and flying. AHHHH!
nah, always a champ day but a smart day, not to fly?

Ex report unknown, wind 50 mph plus and gusts, rain, sunshine, warm, getting colder. Time to just admire and work on struts
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Last edited by hare; Jan 31, 2013 at 07:26 AM.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 10:22 PM
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Jan 2013
449 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbarchuk View Post
Excellent. You're hooked.



Ultramicro CGs are measured in mm, appx. 1.5/16th inch. Larger scale planes are measured in quarter inches. My Sig Senior is appx. 100x heavier than Champ, and if CG 'looks like about 1/4 chord' it'll probably fly fine.

So yes you need to try to place Champ battery as -repeatedly- accurately as possible.

Champ is heavily undercambered, a very 'lifty' wing, meaning very slight variation in throttle will affect pitch. At on notch on the stick it might travel level, yet just one notch up will make it climb slightly and on notch down make it descend slightly.

The other effect is varying wind movement. Senior shrugs off minor variations that can pitch Champ drastically up or down. The wind is at its' simplest a 'moving body of air' - but it's not uniform/homogenous. Pour milk into coffee and you see all the swirls and loops on the top surface of the liquid. Well, in air the same thing is going on except it's happening in three dimensions. In even just slightly gusty breeze pressure variations are hitting the Champ from top, bottom, left, right, front and back constantly. Those variations can happen every few feet or every few yards. At its' worst Champ looks like it's being thrown around in a washing machine keeping the nose pointed 'mostly up' and 'vaguely in that direction.' I flew Champ for 6 months before I found out what 'trim' *meant*!! And days like that are few and verrrry far between.

It's very easy to doink the tail surfaces and whack out the trim too. Inspect surfaces every time you take it out of the box, -and- take another look just before launch just to be safer.
thanks for the info, just today after watching a youtube video on the hb stratos and how it works, it showed when you use throttle the elevator goes down which helps keep the plane fly level. so there i realized i trimmed the elevator on my champ incorrectly on the maiden last weekend.

i dont know where i read the bad info but i tried to get the champ to fly level by trimming the elevator to angle upwards. no wonder the plane kept trying to climb even at like below 1/4th throttle, and it just plain behaved wierd when turning because i would give a little down elevator. i cant believe i flew 4 batteries and didnt destroy it. this sunday ill correct the trim and i should have an even better time.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:09 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by bradymartin View Post
thanks for the info, just today after watching a youtube video on the hb stratos and how it works, it showed when you use throttle the elevator goes down which helps keep the plane fly level. so there i realized i trimmed the elevator on my champ incorrectly on the maiden last weekend.

....
That won't happen on this Champ unless you've programmed it yourself to do so... with something like a DX6i or other programmable Tx (mixing).
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:14 PM
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
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Originally Posted by North_of_49 View Post
That won't happen on this Champ unless you've programmed it yourself to do so... with something like a DX6i or other programmable Tx (mixing).
but just to make sure am i correct regarding elevatr trim? i did it wrong on the maiden, right?
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 11:23 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
6,485 Posts
Most guys just check to make sure it's visually horizontal, that nothing was assembled wacky from the factory, and just chuck it into the air then tweak with the Tx trim... which is a personal taste thing depending at what speed you like to fly for level flight. I know Mike posted a big checklist for you recently. To be honest, I threw mine into the air right out of the box and to this day have done pretty much none of the things on that list. But it's still recommended.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 12:16 AM
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Jan 2013
449 Posts
this guy must be a super master at flying the champ or he has it dialed in really good. he makes it look so easy.

Hobby Zone UM Champ at cottage playing with the trees.wmv (10 min 37 sec)
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 12:27 AM
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Joined Feb 2012
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Originally Posted by bradymartin View Post
this guy must be a super master at flying the champ or he has it dialed in really good. he makes it look so easy.
It's not so much the flying itself that's impressive but the spacial awareness. With that many obstacles around and at so many variable distances and requiring constant manoeuvring, he is doing exceptionally well. I would surely be hitting something at every go-around. If there's one pole or bush in a flying field my planes seem to be attracted to it.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 06:33 AM
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Hilton (Rochester), NY
Joined Mar 2008
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The guy in the video is Livonia Bob and I posted his settings for his DX6i recently.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 08:01 AM
No place like cloud base......
SuperBarlow's Avatar
United States, VT
Joined Aug 2012
422 Posts
Now I have another question;
I occasionally fly indoors with my champ, and whenever I do, I constantly have to hold about half up elevator to keep it flying level at 1/3 throttle. Am I doing something wrong, or is this because of the thrust line and I'm fine?
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 08:42 AM
An Ordinary User
United States, VA, Fluvanna
Joined Jan 2011
1,185 Posts
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Originally Posted by SuperBarlow View Post
Now I have another question;
I occasionally fly indoors with my champ, and whenever I do, I constantly have to hold about half up elevator to keep it flying level at 1/3 throttle. Am I doing something wrong, or is this because of the thrust line and I'm fine?
You can do that or you can adjust the trim on the Tx so it flies level at 1/3 throttle once you're up. There's nothing wrong with adjusting the trim while flying.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 08:43 AM
BMFA 190658
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United Kingdom, Yeadon
Joined Mar 2007
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It maybe just because it is flying slower.
No (head)wind indoors to slow things up!
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 10:57 AM
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DeBary, FL
Joined Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by SilentPilot View Post
It maybe just because it is flying slower.
No (head)wind indoors to slow things up!
Of course he's -trying- to flying slower, that's because it's easier to miss the walls. But it has nothing to do with [head|tail]wind. Champ is designed to fly level around 1/2 throttle. Flying 15mph with a prevailing wind of 15mph yields 30mph groundspeed, while the opposite direction yields 0mph.

Super, as Goober said to fly you need more AoA to increase drag. That requires more elevator -and- throttle to maintain -lift-.

I've had interesting experiences lately flying Vapor in near-zero to zero air movement. With the heavy undercamber it handles very much like Champ. It's very easy to move the wing and battery around to vary balance. It can fly 'level' at (guessing) around 8-10mph. Or I can run the AoA up to 40-45deg, use more throttle, and groundspeed slows to 2-3mph. But because I can move -both- wing and battery this is all without even -touching- the elevator. With the Champ you can't move the wing, so shift the battery and kick up the elevator and it will get tailheavy and slow down tons. It will get a bit more roll-twitchy but the dihedral will discourage tip stall, and since there're no drafts coming from different directions it'll feel much more stable than it looks.

Keep sliding the battery back till you can't stand it any more and I'll bet you can get it down to walking speed.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 07:22 PM
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Joined Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbarchuk View Post
...

I've had interesting experiences lately flying Vapor in near-zero to zero air movement. With the heavy undercamber it handles very much like Champ. It's very easy to move the wing and battery around to vary balance. ...
My Vapor doesn't have the option of moving the wing - how do you do that?

Moving the battery does make a big difference to AoA - not deliberate, but when it happens, I've also found that just letting the battery hang by it's wiring provides max AoA.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 08:10 PM
Stitching 'em back together!
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United States, MO, Lee's Summit
Joined Jun 2012
385 Posts
I flew a Champ for the first time today, but more importantly my wife flew it. I started flying last year and really wanted her to get into it with me. Well on my way home from work yesterday we stopped in our local hobby shop and picked up the champ and a few extra batteries. The weather was in the low 40s with the wind out of the west around 8mph. So we headed to the city park where there are a few soccer fields. I took it up and made sure it was trimmed and did a few passes and showed her what I was doing. Then I landed and handed the control over to her. She had to hand it back to me from time to time at first but really got the hang of it by the 3rd battery.

As for durability it hit a goal posted once and landed in a tree after a poor correction from a wind gust. However it still looks the same as when we took it out of the box. So I'll chock that up as a win.
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