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Old Mar 21, 2010, 07:49 PM
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balancing Thunder Tiger Ecureuil scale fuse

I have a Thunder Tiger Titan 50. I love this bird. I bought a Thunder Tiger Ecureuil scale fuse. The instructions say to add a 3600 sub c receiver pack to balance this bird. I did this and still had to add another 16 oz of lead to achieve a proper static balance. In forward flight the heli will do a severe inward tuck if you turn too tight. It will scare the heck out of you. The scale fuse also uses a inverted air foil horizontal stab. This will cause the heli to climb in forward flight. Does this stab allow you to use less weight to balance? What happens as you transition to hover if you do not have the proper weight up front. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old Mar 22, 2010, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayman5 View Post
I have a Thunder Tiger Titan 50. I love this bird. I bought a Thunder Tiger Ecureuil scale fuse. The instructions say to add a 3600 sub c receiver pack to balance this bird. I did this and still had to add another 16 oz of lead to achieve a proper static balance. In forward flight the heli will do a severe inward tuck if you turn too tight. It will scare the heck out of you. The scale fuse also uses a inverted air foil horizontal stab. This will cause the heli to climb in forward flight. Does this stab allow you to use less weight to balance? What happens as you transition to hover if you do not have the proper weight up front. Any help would be appreciated.
Welcome to RCGroups Rayman5. Adding the weight to achieve the proper static balance is the only way to go. The stab has little effect on the models flying characteristics. On the 1:1 Squirrel the inverted airfoil has the tendency to help keep the nose up. This doesn't really scale down to the model in my experience. Transitioning to a hover with a tail heavy bird will force you to apply forward or down elevator to keep the heli stationary. Not sure what might be causing the inward tuck you mentioned. Hopefully others will chime in and address that issue.

Cheers - Boyd
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Old Mar 22, 2010, 06:24 PM
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Thank you Hoverup. At least I have one step of the process confirmed. I would love to hear from some others.
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Old Mar 23, 2010, 11:04 AM
kin
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I 100% agree Hover up ! the tail wing are (no use ) in rc models heli , it effect is you can not feel . in my 600 Apache are the full steb wing are 20 degree down angel but the flying performance are same same !! Just well balance the c/g is enough ! I have a experence are the 50 nitro size Hughes 500 D from Funkxx , it is a very big effect from the big egg fuselage ! it so diffcult to fly well in fast speed straight line .and bad hovering in side wing . The AS-350 is a good slim fuselage ,same jet ranger .it is a easy fuselage .it must fly well ! Check the c/g balance !
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Old Mar 23, 2010, 11:55 AM
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I built one of these for a friend and have flown it several times. It required a fair amount of lead in addition to a large RX pack to balance properly. I haven't noticed any of the behaviors you mention.... As noted, the stab isn't going to have a significant effect on flight in this scale.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "inward tuck"? Do you mean it's dropping the nose? How hard of a turn? Scale, or 3D?
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Old Apr 06, 2010, 10:52 PM
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Rodman, thanks for your input. When I say inward tuck, I am talking about when I turn, the nose will drop severly and want to tuck in and down toward the direction of the turn. If uncorrected I get the feeling that the heli would roll onto it's back and maybe even swap ends. Very scary. I try to fly this bird scale. I may just be turning too sharp and need to flatten out my turn.
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Old Apr 07, 2010, 12:03 AM
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Wow, that sounds like a serious problem... I've never experienced anything like that on any RC heli I've ever flown. It doesn't sound like a balance issue, though...
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Old Apr 07, 2010, 04:57 AM
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Rudder end point adjustment??

Long shot here but on my much smaller 450 size Airwolf I had an issue with the turns and if I am following what you are saying as for the nose 'tucking' in it sounds kind of similar. In a tight turn the nose liked to drop like a rock. I turned down the rudder endpoints in my radio as well as added a touch of expo and it completely cured that issue. I think prior to this I was over controlling it in the turns due to too much tail movement hence causing the nose "tuck" or drop. Now this is not an issue in my MD500 450 size but I can tell you they fly completely different.

Might be worth a try.

David.
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Old Apr 08, 2010, 12:11 PM
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I don't have that particular version, but I do have the Graupner AS-350. Remember that this configuration has a large vertical fin way back.

This amount of fin area has a strong impact on turning right versus left. If you are flying heading hold, turn it off and learn to use rate mode. What is likely happening is you are trying to force the model to turn right tighter than it wants to and running out of tail authority. You then try to force the turn with "aileron" which is simpy trying to cause the model to roll - especially as you now have a fiar degree of skid going on too.

I suspect you can turn fine to the left but to the right is where life gets bad but........

A second issue is that all models that are not running at 3D rpm will show some full size habits of rolling toward the advancing blade (that is not a misstype) in translation. My Squirrel is particularly strong in this respec and the result is that in a coordinated turn to the left you end up pulling slightly back and right to stop the turn tightening and the nose dropping.

So - two potential issues - any of this fit?

And by the way - trying telling anyone who flies F3C that the horizontal tail has no effect and see what happens.
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Old Sep 05, 2010, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayman5 View Post
I have a Thunder Tiger Titan 50. I love this bird. I bought a Thunder Tiger Ecureuil scale fuse. The instructions say to add a 3600 sub c receiver pack to balance this bird. I did this and still had to add another 16 oz of lead to achieve a proper static balance. In forward flight the heli will do a severe inward tuck if you turn too tight. It will scare the heck out of you. The scale fuse also uses a inverted air foil horizontal stab. This will cause the heli to climb in forward flight. Does this stab allow you to use less weight to balance? What happens as you transition to hover if you do not have the proper weight up front. Any help would be appreciated.
Hi Rayman5,
I bought the same heli and have the same problem.
I'd like to know how did you solve this problem.
At the moment I mounted the ballast in the nose of the fuselage (used 350 gr of adhesive lead weights), but don't know if there is some better way to put the ballast.
Many thanks
Bye
Paolo
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