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Old Jul 08, 2010, 01:53 PM
My dog is PERFECT in my eyes
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Originally Posted by Get Real View Post
9sec240,great idea. It will show exactly whats going on in flight.. hard to dimiss when theres video of exactly whats happening with the plane. Do some full deflection of the elevator on the ground when its not under flight loads if you can,also give it full deflection under prop wash while at WOT on the ground,then the in flight video of the tail under flight loads to show exactly what it does and how little or how much its twisting in the air as well.

Metalbenderusn,i realize whats happening with the tail,without having flown the plane myself or really getting a good look at one in the air i was guessing early on but more and more feedback in the threads confirmed what it is,same for the landing gear deal.. until i started seeing pics like the one posted here i thought for sure the planes a bit heavy for its size and newer pilots must be stalling it out and dropping it hard tearing it out but it doesnt seem to look that way after seeing pics of how its glued and the amount of surface area actually making contact with the fuselage. Your 100% right on the tail.. its acting like ailerons or a taileron set up when deflection isnt equal on both halves and rolling the plane because of the amount of flex during higher deflection rates. The question is.. is it caused from trying to deflect the elevator past its limits and it binds then bends,or is the snap caused do to the force of air twisting a not so rigid flight control.. or maybe its a little of both.
My guess initally, a little of both. My fix as ilistrated above was the fix for the GWS but when I hit full up deflection of the elevator, I still get the roll, and that's binding at full deflection. I have to stay within 3/4 deflection as to NOT get a taileron roll. Since the GWS is just a cheapie, it's NOT gonna be perfect. I can do some decient scale combat manuvers without full elevator deflection, so it works out. You'll figure it out and you'll find the fix that suits your needs.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 06:08 PM
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The issue that I have with the Extra is that this is happening at such a small throw. It was corkscrewing at 30% DR and nearly snap rolling at 40% DR on ELE. That makes it hard to fly even non aggressively.

Here is a video showing just prop wash deflection.

PZ Extra 300 Prop Wash Deflection (0 min 56 sec)
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 07:31 PM
My dog is PERFECT in my eyes
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9sec240 View Post
The issue that I have with the Extra is that this is happening at such a small throw. It was corkscrewing at 30% DR and nearly snap rolling at 40% DR on ELE. That makes it hard to fly even non aggressively.

Here is a video showing just prop wash deflection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNNbSiErTm0
Facing rearward, it looks like the vertical stab is canted left...that would do it. It could just be the camera not being centered perfectly though.

I took my GWS Corsair out. First flight...I stuffed it and broke the entire horizontal stab tail surface off, and cracked the vert stab (hand launch). I had it repaired in less than an hour, flew it after 2 hours...no probs. I have NO idea why I stuffed it....stuff happens.

Then I took the EXI-450 Pro out. Two flights, only did one backflip. I did a LOT of low nose in work on those two flights. Just didn't feel like pushing it tonight....didn't really feel connected. There was NO air moving, it was hot and stuffy. I could fly it one more time, but don't feel like it.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 07:34 PM
Flippin Multirotors
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Did you add carbon or any reinforcement prior to the video? Dont see the side to side flex,the blow back during the prop wash is pretty common and doesnt seem excessive(balsa planes get that on the ground as well a little and there built much more rigid),servo linkage geometry can help lessen that a little. Didnt notice a lot of twist if any in the elevator? Did you reinforce it with anything? The tail twist laterally was kind of common on the typhoon with maximum throws with stronger servos than stock(hs-81mg's i ran)but i could get good deflection rates without binding the surfaces and making the tail flex much.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 07:37 PM
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It is still stock at the moment. I am uploading a flight video right now. It looks like the horn side moves more than the other but it is hard to tell.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 07:47 PM
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If you werent so far north id say bring it over,i got plenty of carbon and stuff for the foamies that would only take a few minutes to stiffen the tail. I think making the tail more rigid would help,but part of it is probably the wingloading as well on the plane.. pz was real clear they didnt want everyone thinking it was made for 3d which it isnt but there is probably more potential for slower floaty flying with a lighter power set up etc.. but the plane doesnt come out of the box that way so people will be on there own probably if they go changing set ups if they want it to fly more like a 3d plane than a highly powered fast sport type foamie. Im getting more tempted to get one but have to wait until i get the 72'' mxs flown and get it all set up and see if it needs any radio changes or balance stuff to be where i want it in the air.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 07:56 PM
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forgive me

for this UNSOLICITED ADVISE :

the film shows a VERTICAL TAIL canted to the right about 15degrees PLUS flopping around when the motor runs.

once that VERTICAL SURFACE is straight and anchored correctly your plane will fly perfectly.
ALSO (if you permit) the DEFLECTION of the elevators AT HIGH RATE is probably about 300% of what it should be.... at speed, that angle will literally stop the flight....the low rate could be reduced as well
I apologize for having the GALL to inject my opinions, totally UNSOLICITED

RICK shame- faced
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 08:04 PM
Luvin' Life
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Ivan,
My 2 cents. I betting with others that the non control elevator is blowing back causing the cork screw. I was just shy of being flamed on RCGroups for saying that about my 47" SHPV1. I added another servo for the other half and my SHP made perfect loops. The prop wash won't push as hard is actual flight pressures on the surface. Another thing to do is make sure your wing and stab are parallel. one great way to check is position your plane on a table and step back 5-10 feet. standing directly in front of the plane slowly lower down until you can see both the stab and the wing. See if they are in line. Just thinking.

After reading Rick's comments I have to agree with the flopping tail. You could stiffen everything up well with 4 carbon fiber rods in a diamond around from the tail to the stab and stab to the body.

Blessings,

Jay
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 08:04 PM
My dog is PERFECT in my eyes
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BARRRICK View Post
for this UNSOLICITED ADVISE :

the film shows a VERTICAL TAIL canted to the right about 15degrees PLUS flopping around when the motor runs.

once that VERTICAL SURFACE is straight and anchored correctly your plane will fly perfectly.
ALSO (if you permit) the DEFLECTION of the elevators AT HIGH RATE is probably about 300% of what it should be.... at speed, that angle will literally stop the flight....the low rate could be reduced as well
I apologize for having the GALL to inject my opinions, totally UNSOLICITED

RICK shame- faced
ALMIGHTY PLANK PIONEER....I see the same as you saw on that vid. I swear that vert stab is canted. The faster the plane flys, the worse it will handle. I agree with your entire post as stated above. YOU SIR are correct in your observations and have NOTHING to be ashamed about.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 08:10 PM
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Embarassed

by my INEFFICIENCY in flying helicopters with radio control inputs, however.
Just now in a break in the CONSTANT rains, I was able to re-instate one of my INNOVATORS and also flew the Microscopic MD530 outside, it goes out until its hard to see and still flies steady as a rock. I am mystified with this very tiny heli and how nice it works. Fixed the WALKERA also, it had popped a grub scres and stripped the inside threads ( it had maybe 3 or 4 threads, is all ! ) and it ALSO is a great flyer.
Thanks for your very flattering opinion of what I know about MODEL AIRPLANES. !!!!
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 08:21 PM
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Rick, thanks for your advice. Most of the vertical stab lean you see in that video is due to camera angle and some of is due to the landing gear being crooked and some of it is an actual lean. It is not as bad as the video makes it look.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 08:23 PM
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Actual flight video but it does not show too much IMO.

Extra elevator deflection during flight (5 min 38 sec)
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 08:23 PM
Luvin' Life
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Ivan, from the pics your elevator is not paralell to the fuse, Head on it dips to the left. I wonder if your fuse twists as well. Does she corkscrew right every time?
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 08:26 PM
My dog is PERFECT in my eyes
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BARRRICK View Post
by my INEFFICIENCY in flying helicopters with radio control inputs, however.
Just now in a break in the CONSTANT rains, I was able to re-instate one of my INNOVATORS and also flew the Microscopic MD530 outside, it goes out until its hard to see and still flies steady as a rock. I am mystified with this very tiny heli and how nice it works. Fixed the WALKERA also, it had popped a grub scres and stripped the inside threads ( it had maybe 3 or 4 threads, is all ! ) and it ALSO is a great flyer.
Thanks for your very flattering opinion of what I know about MODEL AIRPLANES. !!!!
LMAO....Rick...you FORGOT more than I've ever learned in R/C. Thanks to guys like you and Richard Rogers (no longer with us), I went from flying a .40 high wing trainer to flying mid and low wing JETS and planks as well as vastly improving my helicopter mechanics and flying skills.
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Old Jul 08, 2010, 08:27 PM
Flippin Multirotors
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Jay,like i said when you first linked me to this thread.. what i liked a lot about it was the honest no BS feedback without any brand crap in the mix. If you encounter something with ANY plane you tell it like it is,if you find a way to fix it you share it. I dont care if the plane was a dud or just poor quality control on the one you got.. if you had that problem it EXISTED and you did what you had to do to fix it. Keep it real.. i understand some pills are tough to swallow if you havent experienced it first hand with a plane sometimes but no reason to deny it exists because someone else hasnt experienced it.
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