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Old Mar 07, 2010, 07:17 PM
Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Champaign, IL
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May I jump in here?

I did some of the in-house development, test flying and wrote the instruction manual for the Evader. About the cheater hole, that was the first thing that caught my eye when the project was assigned to me. But when I flew the plane I forgot all about it. Others who have seen it say the same thing..."too bad there is a cheater hole." I understand. But, it's an inexpensive jet that flies fast so, as a modeler, it doesn't bother me. The thing is so small and flies so fast, I promise the cheater hole will be the last thing you will be thinking of when flying it--it's difficult enough to see the plane let alone the hole.

In a humble attempt to answer the question "why not put in duct work?," well, weight is a consideration as well as, what's the phrase..."return on investment." I suppose duct work could have been worked in, but we were so happy with the speed of the plane in the first place the time/cost of development probably wouldn't have been worth it--in our opinion. And now that I think about it, you'd also have to make a hatch (for motor/fan installation/access) further increasing the weight and cost. I mean, the Evader is a toy among toys.

Well, personally I absolutely love the plane and can't wait to get one for my self.

Tim Lampe
Hobbico R&D
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Last edited by KRProton; Mar 07, 2010 at 07:29 PM.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 07:24 PM
Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Champaign, IL
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidingexpert View Post
26.5 inch wing span!!! How do you keep up with a 100mph mini jet?? I want one now, but I don't think Tower has them listed , yet.
Hi.

That's a very legitimate question and something I tried to address in the instruction manual.

Here's how to keep up with a 100mph speck in the sky:
1. Make sure all your faculties are in check--good vision, descent pilot, good night's sleep, etc. (Seriously.)
2. Don't fly it on cloudy days or when the sky is gray--at least not the first time out.
3. Don't fly it if the sun is in your face.
4. I recommend a spotter. He can also adjust the trim tabs for you so you don't have to look down or take your thumbs/fingers off the sticks.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 07:54 PM
EDF rules... :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRProton View Post
May I jump in here?

I did some of the in-house development, test flying and wrote the instruction manual for the Evader. About the cheater hole, that was the first thing that caught my eye when the project was assigned to me. But when I flew the plane I forgot all about it. Others who have seen it say the same thing..."too bad there is a cheater hole." I understand. But, it's an inexpensive jet that flies fast so, as a modeler, it doesn't bother me. The thing is so small and flies so fast, I promise the cheater hole will be the last thing you will be thinking of when flying it--it's difficult enough to see the plane let alone the hole.

In a humble attempt to answer the question "why not put in duct work?," well, weight is a consideration as well as, what's the phrase..."return on investment." I suppose duct work could have been worked in, but we were so happy with the speed of the plane in the first place the time/cost of development probably wouldn't have been worth it--in our opinion. And now that I think about it, you'd also have to make a hatch (for motor/fan installation/access) further increasing the weight and cost. I mean, the Evader is a toy among toys.

Well, personally I absolutely love the plane and can't wait to get one for my self.

Tim Lampe
Hobbico R&D
Tim.

Thanks for coming in an giving us your background and take on this airplane. I have an L39 and when I saw the thread I came in to see what the airplane looked like. When I saw the small inlets, the side cheaters and then the bottom cheater I posted my opinion on what I like and dislike about this EDF airframe. I woudl have been interested in it even if it did not have ducting but the small inlets and side cheaters definitely turned me off. If the airframe where designed with enough inlet area then ducting could have been retrofitted and I would have bought one or two. My post with my opinion would have been the end of my participation in this thread but othes have tried to squelch opinons like mine that can be used in the future by people like you to produce what we want not what a manufacturer thinks will sell.
EDF is not rocket science but it can be difficult to do correctly and just a little more work can make the difference between something that is adequate and something that takes the market by storm.

Eric B.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 07:57 PM
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Dyess AFB
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side cheaters? are you mistaking the "grip thingys" as cheater holes? I looked over the manual and they have grip pads on the side to get a better hold when using the included bungie system.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 08:04 PM
EDF rules... :)
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Joined Nov 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Howard View Post
side cheaters? are you mistaking the "grip thingys" as cheater holes? I looked over the manual and they have grip pads on the side to get a better hold when using the included bungie system.
Oh those are grip thingies?.....
I must be going blind still if there were enough area to support the fan at the inlets then my opinion would be different, the large cheater could be covered and I can make my own ducting.

Eric B.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 08:11 PM
Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Champaign, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirX View Post
Tim.

Thanks for coming in an giving us your background and take on this airplane. I have an L39 and when I saw the thread I came in to see what the airplane looked like. When I saw the small inlets, the side cheaters and then the bottom cheater I posted my opinion on what I like and dislike about this EDF airframe. I woudl have been interested in it even if it did not have ducting but the small inlets and side cheaters definitely turned me off. If the airframe where designed with enough inlet area then ducting could have been retrofitted and I would have bought one or two. My post with my opinion would have been the end of my participation in this thread but othes have tried to squelch opinons like mine that can be used in the future by people like you to produce what we want not what a manufacturer thinks will sell.
EDF is not rocket science but it can be difficult to do correctly and just a little more work can make the difference between something that is adequate and something that takes the market by storm.

Eric B.
Hi Eric.

Thanks! Yea, there were a few strong opinions posted about the cheaters and I didn't keep track of who said what, but all opinions are valid with me and I won't try to squelch any of them (not that I have the authority or knowledge to do so). I'll just try my best to provide an explanation!

Tim
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 08:22 PM
EDF rules... :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRProton View Post
Hi Eric.

Thanks! Yea, there were a few strong opinions posted about the cheaters and I didn't keep track of who said what, but all opinions are valid with me and I won't try to squelch any of them (not that I have the authority or knowledge to do so). I'll just try my best to provide an explanation!

Tim
Tim,

Thanks for the reply. Take some time to look into the threads and see what people build and the performance levels that are achieved. I do a bit of scratch building as I started when models were just sticks and pressed parts on balsa sheets not electronics ready or even RTF but then each to his own you have to start somewhere.

Eric B.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 08:53 PM
Tim Lampe; Hobbico R&D
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Champaign, IL
Joined Dec 2009
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Thanks Eric.

I think we're somewhat alike--I pride my self a builder too--been into the hobby about forty years now starting with lots of those Peck models (that were drawings of ribs and formers inked onto balsa sheets as you mentioned) and lots of Jemco stuff too! Then there's the Gillows and Stirling stick-and-tissue stuff, and of course, about every Goldberg CL model ever made. Unfortunately (or fortunately), in a work environment you can't always experiment to your heart's desire--eventually you have to determine if the project has met its goal and keep things moving...but I will read up as you suggested.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 09:01 PM
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United States, MI, Grand Blanc
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I'm relatively new to RC airplanes (been flying helicopters for 5 years though) and if I may add my opinion to mix? Thanks, I will.

IMO

This thread started off like so many others and was quickly hijacked and taken down a negative road.

Now instead of learning about a product I was interested in I waded through several pages of crap. If the OP would start another thread I for one would appreciate it.

For those that hate cheater holes, start a thread and educate all of us as to why, that would be constructive. Maybe start a thread called "I hate cheater holes" and vent, cry like baby girls and whine or whatever else you want but, hijacking threads with negative posts does someone like me no good and doesn't further your cause.

Maybe someone that actually knows (fact, not opinion) could chime in with specific cost/performance estimates regarding cheater holes. I know on my budget $20-40 can make or break a model for me. Those of you that don't have this issue, God bless you but, please don't come to my table and rave about your T-bone steak while damning my hamburger. In the end, it all turns to feces anyway and I'd rather eat a hamburger than nothing at all.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to a new "clean" thread about this plane. The negative opinions have already been voiced so there's no need for them to be heard again in a new thread.
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Last edited by Buzzkill2; Mar 07, 2010 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Your post was reported for violating the following rule: Offensive content (Naughty bits) You have got to be kidding me?
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 09:09 PM
EDF rules... :)
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Joined Nov 1999
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Tim,

I did not get into free flight, built a couple Guillows models left them bare though, never go the hang of tissue and dope.

Good luck with the Evader.

Eric B.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 09:27 PM
EDF rules... :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzkill2 View Post
Maybe someone that actually knows (fact, not opinion) could chime in with specific cost/performance estimates regarding cheater holes. I know on my budget $20-40 can make or break a model for me. Those of you that don't have this issue, God bless you but, please don't come to my table and rave about your T-bone steak while damning my hamburger. In the end, it all turns to Sh%T anyway and I'd rather eat a hamburger than nothing at all.
Since you asked - the diminishing returns come as speed builds, the air flow does not want to make sharp turns so what airflow does make the turn into the cheater hole is turbulent which requires more power to change its direction and be reaccellerated.
My credentials come from the EDF models I have designed, most notably the A4 Skyhawk sold by Warbirdkits.com of which I am proud to be associated with.
Not sure why you think that I am trying to make this model a silk purse though, if I were to invest the kind of money in a fibreglass kit I would take more time to do the job right, anyone can go and make foam models that are much cheaper and thereby justify not making the right investment in thier model they are marketing.
Just remember you asked.

Eric B.

OBTW This is fact not opinion.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirX View Post
Since you asked - the diminishing returns come as speed builds, the air flow does not want to make sharp turns so what airflow does make the turn into the cheater hole is turbulent which requires more power to change its direction and be reaccellerated.
My credentials come from the EDF models I have designed, most notably the A4 Skyhawk sold by Warbirdkits.com of which I am proud to be associated with.
Not sure why you think that I am trying to make this model a silk purse though, if I were to invest the kind of money in a fibreglass kit I would take more time to do the job right, anyone can go and make foam models that are much cheaper and thereby justify not making the right investment in thier model they are marketing.
Just remember you asked.

Eric B.

OBTW This is fact not opinion.
I certainly did ask. Now can you also tell all of us the additional costs associated with "doing it right" and the increase in cost to the consumer?

With an estimated cost of $179 (I believe I read that earlier) adding another $20,$30 or $40 (more?) will put this model out of my reach and I'm sure it will put it out of reach for others as well.

If I had the money I'd have a warehouse full of top of the line models to fly. As it stands I do not so, if the cheater holes keep this plane within my budget then I'll gladly fly with the cheater holes as opposed to not flying without them.

Further more, even though you didn't ask, I did not specifically "name" you or anyone else. Do you own the model? Have you flown it? Can you say with any certainty that it does not perform well with the Cheater hole? Could you tell me where the cheater hole was or the size if you didn't already know and it was flying by at 100mph @100' up?

You and others don't like cheater holes, that's your opinion and your right. I'm also entitled to mine and my opinion is still this thread was hijacked by "cheater hole haters" and does nothing to help the hobby or those interested in this particular product.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 10:13 PM
EDF rules... :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzkill2 View Post
I certainly did ask. Now can you also tell all of us the additional costs associated with "doing it right" and the increase in cost to the consumer?

With an estimated cost of $179 (I believe I read that earlier) adding another $20,$30 or $40 (more?) will put this model out of my reach and I'm sure it will put it out of reach for others as well.

If I had the money I'd have a warehouse full of top of the line models to fly. As it stands I do not so, if the cheater holes keep this plane within my budget then I'll gladly fly with the cheater holes as opposed to not flying without them.

Further more, even though you didn't ask, I did not specifically "name" you or anyone else. Do you own the model? Have you flown it? Can you say with any certainty that it does not perform well with the Cheater hole? Could you tell me where the cheater hole was or the size if you didn't already know and it was flying by at 100mph @100' up?

You and others don't like cheater holes, that's your opinion and your right. I'm also entitled to mine and my opinion is still this thread was hijacked by "cheater hole haters" and does nothing to help the hobby or those interested in this particular product.
Buzz,

It would not have cost a penny to do it right from the beginning. Trying to fix it now would not make sense and is/was not what I was trying to get them to do.
My take is it is a Chinese design that GP came upon and decided to market, this is typical of the chinese designers who are good craftsmen but lack the mechanical knowledge to produce a proper product. Some of the companies in china have gained the knowlege but at this time they do not seem to share the information from company to company.
That being said I dont think this airplane will make 100mph, the L39 on 3 cells will maybe do 65mph on 4 cells maybe 80 and it has the same fan. I know I have one.
As you want this model go ahead and buy it, you will obviously like it.
If this discussion contains something that I am interested in I will join it and stay with it as it seems you will also. The only hater here is the one that hates the cheater hole haters...

Cheers,
Eric B.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 10:25 PM
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I've said all I have to say. I hope we get some more info on this bird.
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Old Mar 07, 2010, 11:21 PM
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LOL!!! Eric.
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