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Old May 25, 2010, 04:14 PM
3D wing innovator
MikeRx's Avatar
Dallas, Texas
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by tman52804 View Post
Yeah, but the recommended ones are out of stock to late June. My rifle should be here today.
hitec 45-55-65s all have been used by rifle owners with good sucess.
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Old May 25, 2010, 07:13 PM
Spicy Torque Roll!
volcomsnows2k's Avatar
USA, CA, Pasadena
Joined Dec 2006
1,826 Posts
3rd Flight and Disaster!

Hey pilots. This is not bashing or anything. I just want to share my experience with you Rifle owners of something potentially extremely dangerous. Today I put flight 3# at my local field. Second flight was awesome. I was making full throttle passes a few inches off the runway. Did some extremely low pylon style turn and burns. Kept the up elevator pull not too extreme. The flight was awesome and fun! Third flight, Same flying style and 3 minutes into my flight on a WOT level pass about 5 feet off the grass, the main wing BLEW OFF the fuse. The wings did not fold. It blew off backwards with a nice composite thump at over 100mph. I could not keep an eye on the wings as I was low and HOTT. Here's the problem guys, my fuselage is still traveling at over 100mph and is a freaking loose missile. My flying site was empty with just 2 pilots in the pits. My fuselage I kid you not slid on the grass for like 2 Football fields in distance!

Here's where I am mad and I have a few things to say. After retrieving both the parts, and examining the cause, I find the culprit. MY brother was there today shooting some product photos for me and was able to snap a few shots and have a few great photos of the reason the wings blew off. The main wing is held on by a single hex wing bolt in the rear. The front of the wing has a wing seat type plastic material retainer. That is slid into the slot on in the fuse and then the wing bolt is tightened down. The freaking plastic part that holds the front of the wing to the fuse is the weak link. I must have fatigued the material and finally it gave way. The wings blew straight and level backwards. The wing bolt area as you can see below in the photos is still attached. How does Great Planes/Hobbico not extensively test these or something? I have read so many cases of the wings having problems and here I prove my case. That main wing retainer needs to be at the very least plywood or bass wood. Or Carbon. The manufacturer box of the Rifle reads 90mph. My stock recommended set up only flying on a 20C Fullymax and all the recommended motor and esc combo from Electrifly. My Rifle is not 90mph. It is well over 120mph on a flat level pass.

Think of the danger potential here. If I was not flat and level, if I was pointed up or towards the pits or something. WOW. The fuse would have landed in the next freaking zip code. I can't imagine guys flying this thing at the local parks and ball fields. You can seriously hurt someone. A fuselage traveling like a bullet uncontrollable... just wow. This is my first hotliner Electric. I fly Dynamic Soaring and my ships can pull well over 250mph and if there is a failure, at least there's just a mountain or cliff to deal with. I am just really freaked out. Watching that fuselage lawn dart at that kind of speeds leaves a pilot speachless. I will be contacting Great Planes to tell them my concerns. The damage to my Rifle is pretty minimum considering the speeds. It is because I was low and level. Smashed the firewall, and the main wings. I don't even know if I want to repair it. That wing needs to be glassed in the back section. Knocked the elevator bay loose too.

Just be careful where you fly these Rifles. They are fun but I do not think the airframe is designed well enough to handle the out of the box speeds.

Happy Flying,

Pete













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Old May 25, 2010, 07:53 PM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,796 Posts
Is that the Banana hobby dude? Ha Ha I took one of your Sky Hawk's and reinforced the wing and dropped a mega motor in it. It was a missile for a good month before it disenigrated in the air one day. Good times!!!

Regardless, thanks for the info. I have been looking at that plastic piece on the wing as a potential disaster. Now I will probably fix it.
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Old May 25, 2010, 08:02 PM
Spicy Torque Roll!
volcomsnows2k's Avatar
USA, CA, Pasadena
Joined Dec 2006
1,826 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyrocco123 View Post
Is that the Banana hobby dude? Ha Ha I took one of your Sky Hawk's and reinforced the wing and dropped a mega motor in it. It was a missile for a good month before it disenigrated in the air one day. Good times!!!

Regardless, thanks for the info. I have been looking at that plastic piece on the wing as a potential disaster. Now I will probably fix it.

HAHA Good times! Yes it is me, the Banana Hobby dude! LOL! YES by all means, get your Dremel and go to town. It is not a question of IF it's going to fail. It is a question of When. I am buying a second Rifle and I am going to modify it. I like speed. It has to be safe! Boy if you could of seen the pylon style yank and banks like with the wing tip a foot off the ground. It is so FUNNNNN! I still think the Rifle is a great product at a good retail price. Time for Rifle #2!

Happy Flying,

Pete
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Old May 25, 2010, 08:21 PM
Crashing into the sky!
jackosmeister's Avatar
Auckland NZ
Joined Aug 2007
7,302 Posts
Yikes. Ive had the same thing happen on another pylon plane (stinger) wing came fluttering to the ground and the fuselage went straight it at mach 3, I ended up with dust! Its amazing how well the rifle survived.

All these delays from tower and the not so flash build quality of the rifle is annoying me, I might go look at something else. LHS has a quick30 thats been sitting on the shelf for years....
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Old May 26, 2010, 08:31 AM
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keehopper's Avatar
Albuquerque NM
Joined Mar 2009
82 Posts
So, for all of us that have not had this bad situation happen yet, what would be the fix? Should we be taking these back to the store we purchased them from and get something else? Most of us have already fixed or replaced the firewall, fixed or replaced the servo plate inside, I am on my 2 ammo motor (1st one had bad bent shaft and could not balance prop, not to mention the known overheating problems people are having with the stock setup) an now we have to be concerned with keeping the wing on a potential missile that needs modifications before flying...to be safe. By the pics I see above, it looks like the tab is only made of foam core covered with glass or plastic. Is there no wood in the tab at all? All I can say is that I have built many planes from other manufactures without the concerns or issues attached to this project. I will most likely sell this and buy something else from another manufacture.
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Old May 26, 2010, 08:47 AM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,796 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by keehopper View Post
So, for all of us that have not had this bad situation happen yet, what would be the fix? Should we be taking these back to the store we purchased them from and get something else? Most of us have already fixed or replaced the firewall, fixed or replaced the servo plate inside, I am on my 2 ammo motor (1st one had bad bent shaft and could not balance prop, not to mention the known overheating problems people are having with the stock setup) an now we have to be concerned with keeping the wing on a potential missile that needs modifications before flying...to be safe. By the pics I see above, it looks like the tab is only made of foam core covered with glass or plastic. Is there no wood in the tab at all? All I can say is that I have built many planes from other manufactures without the concerns or issues attached to this project. I will most likely sell this and buy something else from another manufacture.
I bought this plane knowing there would be issues, kind of an experiment to see if I could help buddies get into pylons for $100 without having to do too many mods.

If you want something with less drag and none of the problems you see on this thread, you need to go to the next level of fiberglass pylons. There are three or four I can think of off the top of my head in the ($179-$210) price range. That's as cheap as it gets for a little missile that wil take the speed and still hold together. I don't hear anything about wings folding or ripping off on these little Speed 400 pylons.

Sokol, VIP-1, Quick. There is no building involved with the VIP-1. Drop in your servos (no glue required), add motor and ESC and you are done in about 20 minutes.

VIP

http://www.soaringusa.com/products/p...ategory_id=265
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Old May 26, 2010, 08:51 AM
Spicy Torque Roll!
volcomsnows2k's Avatar
USA, CA, Pasadena
Joined Dec 2006
1,826 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by keehopper View Post
So, for all of us that have not had this bad situation happen yet, what would be the fix? Should we be taking these back to the store we purchased them from and get something else? Most of us have already fixed or replaced the firewall, fixed or replaced the servo plate inside, I am on my 2 ammo motor (1st one had bad bent shaft and could not balance prop, not to mention the known overheating problems people are having with the stock setup) an now we have to be concerned with keeping the wing on a potential missile that needs modifications before flying...to be safe. By the pics I see above, it looks like the tab is only made of foam core covered with glass or plastic. Is there no wood in the tab at all? All I can say is that I have built many planes from other manufactures without the concerns or issues attached to this project. I will most likely sell this and buy something else from another manufacture.

I think overall, the Rifle is a nice little aircraft. She definitely performs. I have read the folding of the wings, firewall etc. As far as I know, I am the first with the tab breaking. I think for the $109 price tag, it is okay to perform some small modifications by the hobbyist. As I looked at my broken tab and for the guys that want to modify it, I think its a pretty easy process. I know I have one busted up wing and I am going to experiment with it. I plan on using a Dremel. OR some kind of a high frequency hobby knife. In any case, that tab should be replaced with at least a plywood stock. Basswood would be great and carbon would be even better. Once you get the old tab removed, epoxy does wonders. I'm going to just epoxy the new tab in. I am more than sure this will resolve the issue. I already called Great Planes and told them of my whole issue. I also said, I can care less about crashing an airplane. I have crashed 10G turbines do to electronics failure and I don't hold any company at fault. I told them the reason I contacted them is the potential danger with this issue. It's not a foam or balsa plane that crash and so be it. This issue is followed by a projectile that is launched at over 100mph. Great Planes was very responsive and asked for photos and a detailed email sent to the tech department and they will review with their RnD guys. I still really like the Rifle. The looks are sweet. She just looks FASSST when she's sitting on my work counter. I am buying a second and I am going to mod that tab. Surprisingly, I did not mod the firewall, but then again I was only on flight #3.

Happy Flying,

Pete
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Old May 26, 2010, 08:57 AM
Spicy Torque Roll!
volcomsnows2k's Avatar
USA, CA, Pasadena
Joined Dec 2006
1,826 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyrocco123 View Post
I bought this plane knowing there would be issues, kind of an experiment to see if I could help buddies get into pylons for $100 without having to do too many mods.

If you want something with less drag and none of the problems you see on this thread, you need to go to the next level of fiberglass pylons. There are three or four I can think of off the top of my head in the ($179-$210) price range. That's as cheap as it gets for a little missile that wil take the speed and still hold together. I don't hear anything about wings folding or ripping off on these little Speed 400 pylons.

Sokol, VIP-1, Quick. There is no building involved with the VIP-1. Drop in your servos (no glue required), add motor and ESC and you are done in about 20 minutes.

VIP

http://www.soaringusa.com/products/p...ategory_id=265
rocco, thanks for the link. I will be talking to the guys at soaring this week. I fly everything from turbines, to 40 plus percent 3D, to slope racing and dynamic soaring. This Rifle is my first try at Electric Speed. I have to tell you after 3 flights for me and that low oval full speed banking, I am HOOKED. I need something that will have that speed and be able to take handle the speed and G's. When I lost that wing on my Rifle, I have flash backs of wow if I was 90 degrees from one of my banking turns that fuse would be tracking towards my face. Not a pretty sight.

You sound like you know quite a lot about this whole speed thing. If you don't mind, when I settle on an airframe, I'd like to consult with you for a nice power system. Thanks for you help!

Happy Flying,

Pete
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Old May 26, 2010, 09:02 AM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,796 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by volcomsnows2k View Post
rocco, thanks for the link. I will be talking to the guys at soaring this week. I fly everything from turbines, to 40 plus percent 3D, to slope racing and dynamic soaring. This Rifle is my first try at Electric Speed. I have to tell you after 3 flights for me and that low oval full speed banking, I am HOOKED. I need something that will have that speed and be able to take handle the speed and G's. When I lost that wing on my Rifle, I have flash backs of wow if I was 90 degrees from one of my banking turns that fuse would be tracking towards my face. Not a pretty sight.

You sound like you know quite a lot about this whole speed thing. If you don't mind, when I settle on an airframe, I'd like to consult with you for a nice power system. Thanks for you help!

Happy Flying,

Pete
No prob. Give a good look at the VIP-1, I have two of them, they fly great and can be pushed to 150mph with the right setup.
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Old May 26, 2010, 09:28 AM
Spicy Torque Roll!
volcomsnows2k's Avatar
USA, CA, Pasadena
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyrocco123 View Post
No prob. Give a good look at the VIP-1, I have two of them, they fly great and can be pushed to 150mph with the right setup.

I am taking a look. Thanks!
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Old May 26, 2010, 09:31 AM
Spicy Torque Roll!
volcomsnows2k's Avatar
USA, CA, Pasadena
Joined Dec 2006
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So I just took the remaining piece of the tab out of the wing. It only inserts into the wing about 1/8 of an inch. The tab is solid PLASTIC. Not even composite mix or anything. It was soft enough for me to just use an XACTO blade to just cut it out. Go figure. What a way to spare a penny for the manufacturer. The tab was removed very easily. I am replacing it with basswood.

Happy Flying,

Pete

*** More dis assembly: Bent motor shaft, bent prop adapter. The firewall is like CA glued in or something and just fell off clean. I am rebuilding her and going to literally go to the desert (dry lake bed) and I am going to try and fold the wings.
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Last edited by volcomsnows2k; May 26, 2010 at 09:43 AM.
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Old May 26, 2010, 09:53 AM
3D wing innovator
MikeRx's Avatar
Dallas, Texas
Joined Dec 2009
2,175 Posts
Splash #2

Well Im sad to report a wing fold yesterday. I was getting very confident, pulling harder turns when the wing snapped in two with one half staying connected to the plane. I already had noticed the wing/tongue problem and fixed accordingly. Problem is that the plane went into a road and hit HARD.
I was flying in moderate wind, 92 degrees, and running 2200 3s at 19.5oz weight.. Pulled hard left after 120 est mph downwind pass... I walked up to a separated battery AND buzzing servos I did not want to touch it!

Will post pics later..
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Old May 26, 2010, 10:04 AM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,796 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRx View Post
Well Im sad to report a wing fold yesterday. I was getting very confident, pulling harder turns when the wing snapped in two with one half staying connected to the plane. I already had noticed the wing/tongue problem and fixed accordingly. Problem is that the plane went into a road and hit HARD.
I was flying in moderate wind, 92 degrees, and running 2200 3s at 19.5oz weight.. Pulled hard left after 120 est mph downwind pass... I walked up to a separated battery AND buzzing servos I did not want to touch it!

Will post pics later..
That really bites. I'm sorry to hear that. Reading all this is like waiting for the inevitable. Everytime I fly my poor little "RIfle" I wonder....Is this the flight?
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Old May 26, 2010, 10:14 AM
3D wing innovator
MikeRx's Avatar
Dallas, Texas
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyrocco123 View Post
That really bites. I'm sorry to hear that. Reading all this is like waiting for the inevitable. Everytime I fly my poor little "RIfle" I wonder....Is this the flight?
thank you.
Heat may have weakened the adhesive in the glass.
Fly in cooler weathher?? Dont know..be SAFE and do not fly over roads or close to people or property.. and certainly dont turn hard towards yourself or that RIFLE could throw some AMMO right at ya!
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