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Old Mar 01, 2010, 02:50 AM
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USA, WA, Bremerton
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I guess you will have to manually set the restriction using the 7-point curves to back off the pitch and roll throws at full pitch, set the mix on each to "Single", so it will still allow full pitch and full aileron or full pitch and full elevator but not full travel on all 3. You are probably correct there isn't an elegant solution to that one (i.e. a button that says "linkage comp"), it requires a combination of finesse and manual force with a more kludgy method.

From that link you posted I conclude this will be included in the swash/cyclic ring software?

As far as I can tell this is still a huge step forward from my current JR X8103 Heli. I have owned about a dozen eCCPM helis over the last decade (JR Voyager, T-Rex 450, Raptor - although not ccpm of course - etc) but admit I haven't played with any of them in a few years due to other interests.

At any rate two out of your original three "Can't Do This" questions ain't bad.

**edit** For future software (hopefully Hitec is listening...), inserting a Boolean operator in the Swash Compensation setting would fix all these problems. Set up a condition where the ail-pitch and ele-pitch are delimited when they are both at full range, i.e. the mix goes active when ail AND ele AND pitch go beyond a specific stick travel.

p.s. DGF thanks for the clarification on linkage compensation.
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 04:07 AM
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Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyZRC View Post
the A9 has more programming flexibility and will excel in non-standard applications where hand-wrought mixing is important.
if the quadcopter is such an application, then the A9 distinguishes itself.
if non-standard mixing isn't an issue, then the 8FG provides more outright performance in terms of latency response, but the A9 provides a more pleasant user interface and the novel telemetry feature. the A9 is probably the better choice for anyone not already invested to FASST and also not overly concerned with latency. the 8FG is still an excellent offering, but unless you're a competition flier I would say the A9's features are more everyday useful and provide for a better purchase.
As a flier of RC models for in excess of 50 years, the most important factors are ease of use, reliability, back up and support. Talk of latency and etc has no meaning for 99.0% of fliers and even the remaining 1% of "expert fliers" have been unable to demonstrate the actual difference in real hands on time at local fields....
Readers perhaps should also be aware of other threads:
Optima RX - Independent Comprehensive Range Test" The Hitec system worked as well as any I have tested and better than most. It performed better than the Futaba FASST, the Airtronics, the XPS and the JR low end receivers. It performed at least as good as my reference receiver, the JR AR7000."
8FG, SD-10G or A9 what would you choose?

Regards
Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 06:10 AM
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United States, NJ
Joined Jun 2004
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A couple of words about latency.

Latency is measure in really small numbers. As a rule it's hard for us to feel 20msec. The A9 with ~50msec latency is not slow but actually pretty good compared to FM/PCM radios. The FM/PCM radios range between 20msec for the superfast Stylus and 100-150msec for the superslow Futaba 9c et al.

Now, even though the 9c was slow it was still perfectly usable. It's a great radio in it's own right. Going from a slow (100sec) radio to the A9 you will feel the difference. Going from 50msec to 20 or 10msec might not be that much of a difference especially if your servos are analog.

I feel that the latency issue has been blown out of proportion. While I admit that I do feel a difference flying a jet with a 50msec system and with a 20msec system this does not mean it's a must for everybody. I think that as a rule, if you're flying fast or big or nervous (heli type nervous) with digital servos on 6v a 20msec radio is nice to have. Flying a sport airplane 50msec is perfectly good. Especially if that 50msec radio has a ton of features.


rant off
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 04:32 PM
most exalted one
Canada, BC, Blind Bay
Joined Aug 2002
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And don't bash the 9C either...Your slow number is PCM . On PPM-FM it is much better!
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 05:10 PM
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Poway, California, United States
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erazz View Post
A couple of words about latency.

Latency is measure in really small numbers. As a rule it's hard for us to feel 20msec. The A9 with ~50msec latency is not slow but actually pretty good compared to FM/PCM radios. The FM/PCM radios range between 20msec for the superfast Stylus and 100-150msec for the superslow Futaba 9c et al.

Now, even though the 9c was slow it was still perfectly usable. It's a great radio in it's own right. Going from a slow (100sec) radio to the A9 you will feel the difference. Going from 50msec to 20 or 10msec might not be that much of a difference especially if your servos are analog.

I feel that the latency issue has been blown out of proportion. While I admit that I do feel a difference flying a jet with a 50msec system and with a 20msec system this does not mean it's a must for everybody. I think that as a rule, if you're flying fast or big or nervous (heli type nervous) with digital servos on 6v a 20msec radio is nice to have. Flying a sport airplane 50msec is perfectly good. Especially if that 50msec radio has a ton of features.


rant off
Good observation... many Aurora users commented that it "feels" faster than the 9303 or DX-7, for example, which several have sold in favor of the Aurora.

I have heard the flying fast needs low latency theory before, but as indicated in the post below the Aurora was perfectly suitable with a dynamic soaring sailplane at speeds to 337MPH!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe manor View Post
Test flew my Hitec Aurora 9 today in a heavy carbon D80 today and this thing is amazing. I did several power down range checks inside my shop, closed myself in the next room, outside out of sight, 300ft away and could never get it to not work. I specked out the D80 and flew it for over an hour today with laps up to 337mph and it's working flawlessly. I really think the touchscreen, and onscreen receiver battery voltage is a huge value. I launched the plane with 6.7 volts and flew for an hour down to 6.2 volts. Hitec has something special here. I will continue to test this system and keep a log for those who are interested.

Joe
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 09:37 PM
DGF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTerry View Post
I guess you will have to manually set the restriction using the 7-point curves to back off the pitch and roll throws at full pitch, set the mix on each to "Single", so it will still allow full pitch and full aileron or full pitch and full elevator but not full travel on all 3. You are probably correct there isn't an elegant solution to that one (i.e. a button that says "linkage comp"), it requires a combination of finesse and manual force with a more kludgy method.

From that link you posted I conclude this will be included in the swash/cyclic ring software?

As far as I can tell this is still a huge step forward from my current JR X8103 Heli. I have owned about a dozen eCCPM helis over the last decade (JR Voyager, T-Rex 450, Raptor - although not ccpm of course - etc) but admit I haven't played with any of them in a few years due to other interests.

At any rate two out of your original three "Can't Do This" questions ain't bad.

**edit** For future software (hopefully Hitec is listening...), inserting a Boolean operator in the Swash Compensation setting would fix all these problems. Set up a condition where the ail-pitch and ele-pitch are delimited when they are both at full range, i.e. the mix goes active when ail AND ele AND pitch go beyond a specific stick travel.

p.s. DGF thanks for the clarification on linkage compensation.
8FG Link Compensation is a really handy feature and works very well. I am sure Hitec will support it in the near future. It shouldnít be too hard to implement. The logic is similar to what you described. Another 8FG eCCPM feature that I didnít mention is Speed Compensation. It removes swash interactions when moving the ELE stick up/down quickly.
Anyway A9 and 8FG are good transmitters. You cannot go wrong with either one. I am very satisfied with my 8FG.
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 10:00 PM
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United States, MI, Jenison
Joined Jun 2008
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Purchased the 8FG

Reasons for my selection:
-Futaba brand seemed more respected in the community of experts I asked.
-Slim design and ergonomics were awesome when I held it in the hobby shop.
-Great balancing from the neck strap.
-Extra FASST receiver for only $10 (I know Hitec had a comparable offer)

But the #1 reason:
-2 pots on the front and two sliders on the sides.
I'm building a quad-copter for aerial photography and these programmable knobs will work well for pan/tilt functions. This is a feature the A9 couldn't touch. I also need one pot for the gain adjustment on my quad board.

Every time I got ready to order the A9 I got that gut feeling that I was buying a high-end Kia instead of a BMW. Sure it looks nice and has lots of bells and whistles but in the end it's a Kia. (no offense to Kia drivers)

Thank you all! I appreciate your input. Hopefully I won't be disappointed spending a little more.
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 11:18 PM
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USA, WA, Bremerton
Joined Aug 2001
328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGF View Post
Another 8FG eCCPM feature that I didnít mention is Speed Compensation. It removes swash interactions when moving the ELE stick up/down quickly.
Anyway A9 and 8FG are good transmitters. You cannot go wrong with either one. I am very satisfied with my 8FG.
The A9 has something called Acceleration Offset that does something similar. It is just a different way of solving the same problem.

Right now my brother is trying to decide between the 8FG and the 10C. As far as I can tell he just might be better off with the 8FG despite it being cheaper than the 10c. Some of the features are really amazing. He is upgrading from a 9C. I know he won't be disappointed with either choice.

nicnaimless, until about 12 years ago Futaba was THE name in RC. For a few decades up to that point ALL the top pilots used it in every competition (except sailplanes where Airtronics was the undisputed champion with the Stylus). Then a huge marketing push (and good products) brought JR to the front and Futaba was somewhat sidelined.

Since you are doing AP I can see why you want the rotary knobs on the front, this is one of the weaknesses on my Aurora in my mind. I also prefer the knob.

Futaba is still doing what they always did, making exceptionally good radios. I guarantee you will be happy with your choice.
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 11:46 PM
Hitec/Multiplex USA
MikeMayberry's Avatar
Poway, California, United States
Joined Sep 2000
4,200 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicnaimless View Post
Reasons for my selection:
-Futaba brand seemed more respected in the community of experts I asked.
-Slim design and ergonomics were awesome when I held it in the hobby shop.
-Great balancing from the neck strap.
-Extra FASST receiver for only $10 (I know Hitec had a comparable offer)

But the #1 reason:
-2 pots on the front and two sliders on the sides.
I'm building a quad-copter for aerial photography and these programmable knobs will work well for pan/tilt functions. This is a feature the A9 couldn't touch. I also need one pot for the gain adjustment on my quad board.

Every time I got ready to order the A9 I got that gut feeling that I was buying a high-end Kia instead of a BMW. Sure it looks nice and has lots of bells and whistles but in the end it's a Kia. (no offense to Kia drivers)

Thank you all! I appreciate your input. Hopefully I won't be disappointed spending a little more.
FYI: The LT,CT, and RT digital trim switches can also be assigned to a channel to control anything independently as well as be assigned to adjust the level of certain mixes like gyro gain, governor and more in flight.

I don't know if I'd use the Kia as a comparison... if we're comparing a Korean based car to a BMW (although Futaba is a Japanese company so it's more like a Lexus) then I think the Hyundai Genesis 4.6 would be more appropriate. http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/ca...enesis-4.6l-v8

Have fun with the 8FG, that's really all the matters anyway.

Mike.
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Old Mar 02, 2010, 04:08 AM
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USA, CA, Merced
Joined Dec 2007
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sorry guys, but calling the A9 anything other than colossally slow is to deny the truth staring you in the face.

PPM radios have been runniing low 20's average latency for ~3 decades, and the vast majority of flying has been done with those PPM systems for that period.

most PCM systems are (roughly) equal in speed to the A9, a couple are faster (notably, ATX stylus is actually faster than PPM, and that was 10+ years ago) and some are slower (futaba 1024 on anything but a 10C). those PCM systems are colossally slow, as is the A9.

people will say what they feel, and feel what they believe, and believe any damn thing.

numbers don't lie, people though are full of crap.

(if any of you had to drive a car down the road with electronic power steering servoing at 20hz, you'd scream bloody murder)

it's still an excellent, nice to use radio with excellent programming features, but there are *definite* applications where it's shortcomings are relevant.
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Old Mar 02, 2010, 04:19 AM
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Dallas, TX
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyZRC View Post
sorry guys, but calling the A9 anything other than colossally slow is to deny the truth staring you in the face.
The only people complaining about the speed seem to be the ones that haven't flown with one.

The numbers may not 'lie' but people preaching about the effect of the numbers seem to be getting pretty close to it
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Old Mar 02, 2010, 05:10 AM
どうもありがとうミスターロボット
Wrend's Avatar
United States, IL
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMayberry View Post
...

Have fun with the 8FG, that's really all the matters anyway.

Mike.
Not that you really needed it, but you earned more respect from me for saying that.

Cheers.
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Old Mar 02, 2010, 07:46 AM
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United States, MI, Jenison
Joined Jun 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMayberry View Post
FYI: The LT,CT, and RT digital trim switches can also be assigned to a channel to control anything independently as well as be assigned to adjust the level of certain mixes like gyro gain, governor and more in flight.

I don't know if I'd use the Kia as a comparison... if we're comparing a Korean based car to a BMW (although Futaba is a Japanese company so it's more like a Lexus) then I think the Hyundai Genesis 4.6 would be more appropriate. http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/ca...enesis-4.6l-v8

Have fun with the 8FG, that's really all the matters anyway.

Mike.
perhaps the Kia / BMW comparison was a bit extreme.
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Old Mar 02, 2010, 01:05 PM
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United States, NJ
Joined Jun 2004
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Hey! I drive a Kia!
(and secretly despise it )
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Old Mar 02, 2010, 01:16 PM
どうもありがとうミスターロボット
Wrend's Avatar
United States, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicnaimless View Post
perhaps the Kia / BMW comparison was a bit extreme.
The analogy I've used is BMW / Porsche, respectively. You don't get a 911 GT3 for the cup holder...
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