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Old Dec 06, 2012, 06:18 PM
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United States, ND, Fargo
Joined Aug 2007
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Hrm, we must be doing something different or there might be other factors involved. I can't say I'm having the same experience with the polyacrylic. I didn't have to work today so I've got 4 coats on the fuse so far. I'm applying thin coats using a sponge brush, waiting 2 or 3 hours between coats, and lightly wet sanding with 400 grit inbetween and it's working a treat. So far I have a nice smooth coating that isn't really rubbery or tacky at all, but isn't rock hard either. Were you wet sanding? I can see the pilling and peeling happening if you sand too much or dry, or if it didn't fully dry between coats. Also I sanded the foam surface and cleaned with denatured alcohol beforehand.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 07:54 PM
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Kilsyth, Victoria, Australia
Joined Oct 2003
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Watdazit, I have found about 30 degrees up is plenty. If your servos are close to accurate (to each other) you should not fneed rudder but possibly just minor correction with aileron.

Do give it a try at height and keep the speed down.

Good luck
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 05:23 AM
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by johnwohl View Post
Hrm, we must be doing something different or there might be other factors involved. I can't say I'm having the same experience with the polyacrylic. I didn't have to work today so I've got 4 coats on the fuse so far. I'm applying thin coats using a sponge brush, waiting 2 or 3 hours between coats, and lightly wet sanding with 400 grit inbetween and it's working a treat. So far I have a nice smooth coating that isn't really rubbery or tacky at all, but isn't rock hard either. Were you wet sanding? I can see the pilling and peeling happening if you sand too much or dry, or if it didn't fully dry between coats. Also I sanded the foam surface and cleaned with denatured alcohol beforehand.
Hi John;
Quickest summation is to say, I just followed the mfr's instructions to a 'T'. Hmmmm....maybe difference in brands? Don't remember mine's - just that I picked it up at Lowes. I also remember it specified a bristle brush - got that too while there. And no - dry sanded only...and only after the 1st coat, after seeing the near 'disastrous' results. AFA 'too much' sanding, I was only attempting to 'scuff' the prior coat for grip for the next coat. After the 1st's results I just applied it straight on, placed the soaked paper strip layer, covered that, & set into the airstream to dry.

What's kinda funny was, I was trying to find the words to describe in the 'Builder's' thread what was happening, & the guy who in the first place recommended & described the planking process came in & told me I should'a used p-Urethane not p-Acryl, because...and described EXACTLY what was happening to me, and its results!

I knew he was an ultra-experienced, old- and long-time builder -- very well respected in the model world -- so readily snapped up his 'lessons'.

But bottom line, if 'yours' is working for you, that's the bottom line, right? Best wishes for a happy ending there!


+++
JFTR (ya'll)....I'm strongly thinkng of buying a Dynamic-S!
(Merry Xmas to me....merry Xmas to me....) *heh heh*
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 08:23 AM
Faster is Better
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United States, AZ, Gilbert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hipperson View Post
Watdazit, I have found about 30 degrees up is plenty. ...snip...

Do give it a try at height and keep the speed down.

Good luck
Just for variety's sake: I have 90% on mine, with about 10% *up* elevator mixed in. Yeah, this is probably too much... but I can deploy without any noticeable "bad effects"... and I love the way it sinks in. It works so well, in fact, that it comes in just slightly tail-low. I've had zero problems with stall but, with this sink rate, I think that's because I've had no temptation to go abnormally slow.

Between David's 30% experience, any my 90%, it's clear you have a lot of leeway to experiment without worry.

I totally agree with the suggestion to test, up high, for unexpected issues before deploying near the ground. Also, I'm a big fan of sslloooooww deployment... mine is set for 2 seconds. Gives you time to react as it settles. It also looks cool.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 04:03 PM
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Huh timed deployment... new to me. Question, if you decide you dont want the spoilers need to gun it and get the hell outa trouble, how long does it take to return to 'normal'?
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 08:40 PM
A geriatric flier
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Australia, NSW, Braidwood
Joined Nov 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hipperson View Post
Watdazit, I have found about 30 degrees up is plenty...........
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldeMan View Post
Just for variety's sake: I have 90% on mine, with about 10% *up* elevator mixed in.
Whats 60% amongst friends? I have it set on a three position switch so I can go Spoilerons or flaperons. I presume for flaperons I would have to mix in some down elevator? Also what is the difference between using either?

How do you do a timed deployment?

Thanks guys.
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Old Dec 07, 2012, 09:57 PM
Low'n Slow is safest, right?
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Norge, Østfold, Fredrikstad
Joined Jun 2011
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This could easily be a bit confusing - David Hipperson is talking about 30 degrees and OldeMan is talking about 90 percent - apples & oranges?

If David is referring to a 30 degree angle of up aileron, that would be a lot more than 30% of the total available aileron deflection (which I guess OldeMan is referring to with his 90% ?)...

On flaps vs. spoilers:
Flaps increases the camber of the wing and generates more lift - adding some drag but resulting in a lower stall speed.
Spoilers decreases the camber and kills lift, and increases lift-induced drag significantly which again kills speed...

I use spoilerons to get the Blaze down from height and down to a reasonable speed for the shortest possible landing distance, and since I seldom fly particularly slow with the Blaze, I have never felt the need for flaperons, although I have spoilerons/flaperons programmed on a three-way switch...
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 11:12 AM
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sigh .... hard for me to sit by and watch confusion.

Answer about spoileron setting given in my post #1034. Please look at it.

Now, giving percentages is only good if everyone is using same radio that uses percentages as input AND everyone have linkages set up the same.

Please, it is much safer and better to use measurement like millimeters. Set spoilers to move upward 10mm from wing surface as starting point. Best to put your select travel range on slider so you have adjustable deflection for different flight situations. Everyone can use ruler so set up based on measurement from wing surface. If you feel like you must give degrees, then imagine a protractor at wing surface wit 0 degree being level at wing surface. Then move upward to get degree of deflection.

Of course, there is a reason that virtually all manufatures give measurement of contol surface travel in mm/inch. It is much easier for all to understand and translate.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 01:10 PM
A geriatric flier
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Australia, NSW, Braidwood
Joined Nov 2008
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Thanks again guys. It is probably better we give measurements in mm but I know I can get stuck on talking % because that is how the Tx gives us the relationship of movement, but as said all radios as said are different.

Ain't the internet marvelous. Four guys from different parts of the world discussing the finer points of flying like a conversation over a cup of coffee. I'm packing the car now and heading for the field. It's going to be a hot day.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 03:00 PM
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Thinking about picking this up as a trainer before trying a balsa glider/warmliner. Could someone please give me a quick abstract on which mods are recommended?
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Coast DJ View Post
Thinking about picking this up as a trainer before trying a balsa glider/warmliner. Could someone please give me a quick abstract on which mods are recommended?
This sort of depends on the condition your plane comes in.

On mine I added a carbon strip to each ruddervators of the V-tail. This to strengthen the surface for better deflection. I also found that the V-tail servos did not quite sit proper in their cavity. Thus I had to whittle a bit of foam to get V-tail and servos to sit properly. I suspect that one other user here that has his plane doing hard climbs is due to V-tail not be true to datum line. Other words V-tail is pointed downwards, possibly.

Check lateral balance of plane, if one wing is heavier then plane will want to turn to that direction. Weigh each wing on its own and see if they weigh the same. A gram here or there not matter much usually, however, you get 15 grams difference and plane will react to weight of one wing being heavier.

Assemble plane and then level plane, look at plane from front on. Measure wingtip to table surface. It should be the same, if not then adjust wing in the saddle. Also measure wing tip to V-tail distance. Should be the same for each side. Push V-tail agains flat surface or wall, as long as flat and at true 90 degree to table that plane is leveled on. Back of V-tail should evenly match both sides when placed against wall. Also both tip of V-tail should be same height from table.

Over all, the biggest defect on my plane were the ruddervator surfacers of V-tail where too weak and would not stand up to wind velocity. Strenghten those, balance and trim plane and it should fly well for you.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 05:02 PM
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Thinking about buying the Dynamic-S. But what is the fuss about left trim? Does Dynamic-S has a factory fault ? How to fix ?
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 05:33 PM
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Early on in trying spoilers on my models (and some really benefit) I made up very simple protractors cut from card so that I could ensure that both ailerons were producing the same deflection. Now I'm comfortable in doing it "by eye".

One thing I don't like is the common use from some radio manufactures is switches whether for spoilerons of flaps. Even if set up correctly this is very much an on-off sort of situation. The Blaze happens to be set up on an older Futaba EXA converted to Fly Dream 2.4. This has a rotating knob which allows infinite adjustment whether a touch or through to full on. Likewise I have a Multiplex Cockpit also converted to 2.4 and this of course has sliders fitted.

The thing is that in flight weather conditions vary greatly and for me matching the amount of "spoil" or brake offers much more comfort. Likewise different aircraft also require differing set ups.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 05:59 PM
Faster is Better
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United States, AZ, Gilbert
Joined Jul 2012
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Originally Posted by KaiWE View Post
This could easily be a bit confusing - David Hipperson is talking about 30 degrees and OldeMan is talking about 90 percent - apples & oranges? ...
Oh my, yes! I screwed that up good -- sorry about that -- I got lazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obake View Post
... Please, it is much safer and better to use measurement like millimeters. ...
Yeah... smart people should do that! (Sorry to have pained you, Obake.)

Measured at the inboard position, I have about 15mm of spoilerons. By my calculation, that's about 25 degrees. Quite close to David's 30.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UlteriorModem View Post
... Question, if you decide you dont want the spoilers need to gun it and get the hell outa trouble, how long does it take to return to 'normal'?
On my Tx... same as the deployment speed... about 2 seconds. However... this is why I prefer spoilerons to flaperons: If you use flaperons to help you slow down to a speed that would ordinarily be substall... then panic and cancel the flaperons... you are going to stall because you are going too slow for the normal airfoil. If you use spoilerons to sink in faster, you can keep up your airspeed. Then, if you panic and cancel the spoilerons, you simply get more lift immediately... as the airfoil shape returns to normal.
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 09:51 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by Left Coast DJ View Post
Thinking about picking this up as a trainer before trying a balsa glider/warmliner. Could someone please give me a quick abstract on which mods are recommended?
I've copied & pasted this so many times now the original ink is startin' to fade:
"One of the best mods you can do is swap out the stock ESC for a 40A one and put on Aeronaut 10x7 folding props."
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