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Old Jul 18, 2012, 09:21 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry__ View Post
Did your CSO bother to test glide performance? Or was the whole test done under power?
Hi Gerry;
Yep - that was the very first thing we did after getting the ailerons trimmed out for straight flight. Well, as a stall/glide test, actually. It fell off to one side but inconclusively as, it did so due to higher winds aloft & swirling a bit. After recovering & taking it downwind to bring it around for another attempt, getting another apparent 'loss of contact' he decided it couldn't be trusted so better bring 'er in while he had some semblance of control. Flight extended only by fact we overshot landing on 1st attempt & did a go-around -- total flight was maybe 4-5 minutes. We actually got another 'no controls' during the downwind leg of the go-around! The thing is a bit of a rocket so, it doesn't take much to get it to fast enough speed to induce the phenomenom -- it happens quickly!
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 09:38 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javatango View Post
Star,
Funny that I am experiencing some of the same issues. I needed 15 clicks of left aileron to get my plane trimmed out. 15! I also lose all aileron control during high speed dives (with motor off) but still retain elevator control. My throws matched the manual's recommendations right out of the box, I didn't need any sub trim. Wish I had an answer for you, but I am just as baffled.
Maybe we need to start a 'Baffled Blazers Club' thread, JT! *LOL*

Not holding much hope in it, but CSO says Tower Support can be unusually knowledgable about these things (plane issues) sometimes so, with mixed anticipatory feelings, I'm planning on giving them a call sometime today. Having always found some solution thru sharing of info & willing 'shareholders' here in RCG and - still hoping to hear something from the experiences here, I'm holding off calling until it appears that help isn't forthcoming. I wouldn't even, ordinarily - but I'm that lost in this case.

CSO advised me to just hope I didn't get that 'Help Desk' character that advises:
"Fly SLOWER!"

(But knowing my luck......)
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Glassing the control surfaces worked for me. My ship handles great at high speed. The servos appear to be up to the job.

I also did a fairly careful clean up of the wing with spackle and sandpaper to get a smooth contour -- the lower surface especially. Flies great with just a click or two of trim.

After my crash, I had to add some glass to one wing tip and fill a good size dent in the leading edge (epoxy+ microballoons). I kept it as light as I could, got everything straight, balanced and well contoured and it still flies great. I'm pleased as hell about that -- I really like this model.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 01:42 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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SoarVT;
That (glassing the surfaces) has the potential of being very meaningful info -- thanks for that!
One comment here about the servos -- 'CSO' said he thought they might be being overwhelmed. My thought, & response was, "Then how is it 10,000 others are flying theirs with no apparent problem?"

One thing I've been....what's the word - 'impressed'? by, is how thin the trailing edges on this aircraft are. How quickly it tapers off from the leading edge, to almost paper-like depth towards the rear & outboard.

I'm sincerly wondering if the wind, at speed, is actually deforming the ailerons & ruddervators in the areas away from where the control horns attach, basically 'flattening them out' resuting in poor-to-no control surface. You gotta wonder why they added the air-dams at the end of the ailerons in the first place -- that's a highly unusual addition on these 'keep-'em-cheap-to-build' foamies.

My planned onboard 'spy cam' should be revealing in this respect. Meanwhile, may I ask how yours performed prior to your glassing?
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 02:30 PM
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Well... I never flew it before I glassed the controls. I was really bugged by how floppy the ruddervator surfaces were. Reports here seemed to indicate they are really not adequate at high speed. Because the model needed weight in the tail anyway, I went ahead and glassed them (moving surfaces only). I was so impressed by the improvement in the stiffness of the controls that I decided to do the ailerons as well.

I've flown it fast enough to get normally taciturn guys invoking the almighty and the handling seemed pretty excellent to me.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 03:30 PM
Once you taste flight...
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United States, VA, Fort Belvoir
Joined Dec 2011
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Hmm it does need some tail weight, sounds good to me because she is scary sometimes in power dives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoarVT View Post
Well... I never flew it before I glassed the controls. I was really bugged by how floppy the ruddervator surfaces were. Reports here seemed to indicate they are really not adequate at high speed. Because the model needed weight in the tail anyway, I went ahead and glassed them (moving surfaces only). I was so impressed by the improvement in the stiffness of the controls that I decided to do the ailerons as well.

I've flown it fast enough to get normally taciturn guys invoking the almighty and the handling seemed pretty excellent to me.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 05:10 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
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@SoarVT:
Ah so. Looks like that's how I'm gonna wind up going. Have you previously posted or have some pix handy showing closeups of your glassing job? What weight cloth & type of resin did you use?


Quote:
Originally Posted by skydvejam View Post
Hmm it does need some tail weight, sounds good to me because she is scary sometimes in power dives.
You reminded me of some info I said I'd share - it had slipped my mind.
This from my old friend who's been flying the Blaze since it first came out.

"I had been flying it with a 2200mAh battery, and this was balanced pretty closely on the CoG marks but a little bit nose heavy. Then one day I decided to try an 1800mAh, and get it spot on. To get it there I wound up drilling 3 holes just in front of the very tail end, using an 11/64 bit, and stuffing 2 or 3 .177 lead pellets inside each hole until it was balanced perfectly with the 1800 all the way back. Then I drizzled some CA over the pellets to lock them in place. This was like the difference of night & day as far as how the plane flew. I can put a 1500 in there with no problem for days when there's no wind, and I save the 2200 for days when it's real windy - that's my 'punch-thru' battery."


So there you have it. He says it flies so impressively there's 3 other guys in his club that have also bought Blazes, & they all love 'em. He's also reinforced his fuse with 'Duck' brand tape in HOT PINK - saying it's even more visible than DayGlo Orange at altitude. By the way, he's been flying RC over 50 years, & he's 70 years old now!! Yee haaaa! *LOL*
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 04:21 PM
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Hmmm. It sounds like some combination of the servos and linkages can't handle the flight loads. I have an ST ASW 28 and it suffers from the same problem to a lesser extent though it's O.K. with the standard 2 cell setup. I finally replaced the elevator servo and have learned that, when using 3 cells, I have to keep the nose high or I lose all control authority as the speed goes up. If the Blaze uses the same servos and linkages I can understand why they fail the test. Another problem that I ran into was that the ailerons were so flexible that they had no authority no matter how much throw I could coax out of them. I finally ended up stiffening them with Sky-Loft and epoxy and that pretty much solved that problem. On a faster plane I would have replaced them with reinforced wood.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 09:47 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
... ended up stiffening them with Sky-Loft and epoxy and that pretty much solved that problem...
'Sky-Loft'? That's a new one to me, Peter. Basically blew Google's virtual mind too. What's the material -- or source; link or something??

I spoke with a gent today who owns a shop specializing in some of those high-end gliders, related my problem to him & asked for some suggestions. He told me about some new stuff, a product called (you ain't gonna believe its name...wait for it.......) "New Stuff" (*LOL* I'm serious!). It's a laminating film that comes in various thicknesses, irons on sort've like Monokote, and works on foam to produce a harder, slicker finish. He says in addition to stiffening the surfaces, it'll make the plane faster too....yada yada yada - long story short I'm gonna give it a try, & see what happens.

It's coming from the west coast so will take a few days, so for the nonce I'm proceeding with plans to mount 2 or 3 key-cams & this weekend get some video of the V-Tail & ailerons in action -- if nothing else, some 'Before' imagery to get a good idea of what's going on up there. The biggest thing concerning me right now is, with such a careful setup & apparently well-matched wings, why it's taking all that aileron trim to level 'er off.

My 'Sunburst' graphic vinyls are due in this Friday too, so that's something else I'll have to hold off until this trim thing is resolved. I'll keep y'all posted as to progress.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 11:46 PM
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That "new stuff" laminating film looks interesting. Which thickness of film did you purchase?
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 05:15 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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He recommended the 5-mil; said I could cover the wing with 5' of the stuff, & it's dirt cheap (~$1 for an 18" sheet. It's also available in 1.7, 3 & 10-mil.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 10:24 PM
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Hacienda Heights, Ca., USA
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Flew several batteries thru the Blaze today and had a great time. I had a brain fart and landed on a blacktop runway, instead of the nice soft grass. Oh well, the black stripe running down the fuse looks custom!
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 02:39 PM
Balsa Builder. With some foam.
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Eastern Norway Scandinavia
Joined Dec 2009
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Had a blast with my well taped and glued Blaze today. To much wind for many Pilots. But I had no problem with the Blaze. In fact landing up wind, with spoilerons was just like a nice touch on the grass. I fly with 2200, and the balance is spot on. Fly in the wind again tomorrow, with the Blaze and a old Birdy, which was really hot when it came out. Today both my gliders are lukewarm. But they are fast enough for me.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 08:11 AM
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Uneventful day here. The much-anticipated opportunity to get some in-air video of the elevator & ailerons was quashed by dear ol' Ma Nature & her teasing ways. Beautiful morning, sunny skies with only clouds off over the horizon, rather mild breezes.....we can't fly before noon (club rule - churches nearby) plus our CSO had to work & couldn't make it out before 4:30pm. And wouldn't you know, about 4m the bottom fell out -- even lost power here at the house for about a half hour.

Next opp will be Tuesday pm, or 'Training Day' for our club's novices when I know he'll be out there, but forecast is for 12-15mph winds so.......curses, foiled again??

OHHH! Almost forgot....I did make some changes however! Added a turbo spinner with 10x7 Aero-Naut Carbon blades. This combined with the 40A ESC upgrade I made last week hopefully gets me to the capability assured in the 'other' Blaze thread: "One of the best mods you can do is swap out the stock ESC for a 40A one and put on Aeronaut 10x7 folding props. Truly unlimited vertical."

Also made a perhaps related discovery or two. Pix & video & EagleTree charts are involved so it'll take me a while to document. Stay tuned - "film at 11"? *LOL*
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 09:22 AM
Once you taste flight...
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United States, VA, Fort Belvoir
Joined Dec 2011
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My research has got to to where I am and what I am trying next time I fly her. I had to put two flat spots on my motor shaft, kept popping the prop off, added a 45 amp ESC, and HK's 12x6 same as they have on the one they sell. looking forward to getting the chance to try it out, also had to repair my nose since it snapped off after the first prop decided it had spent too much time on the plane causing a stall too low and I was too steep >.<.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Uneventful day here. The much-anticipated opportunity to get some in-air video of the elevator & ailerons was quashed by dear ol' Ma Nature & her teasing ways. Beautiful morning, sunny skies with only clouds off over the horizon, rather mild breezes.....we can't fly before noon (club rule - churches nearby) plus our CSO had to work & couldn't make it out before 4:30pm. And wouldn't you know, about 4m the bottom fell out -- even lost power here at the house for about a half hour.

Next opp will be Tuesday pm, or 'Training Day' for our club's novices when I know he'll be out there, but forecast is for 12-15mph winds so.......curses, foiled again??

OHHH! Almost forgot....I did make some changes however! Added a turbo spinner with 10x7 Aero-Naut Carbon blades. This combined with the 40A ESC upgrade I made last week hopefully gets me to the capability assured in the 'other' Blaze thread: "One of the best mods you can do is swap out the stock ESC for a 40A one and put on Aeronaut 10x7 folding props. Truly unlimited vertical."

Also made a perhaps related discovery or two. Pix & video & EagleTree charts are involved so it'll take me a while to document. Stay tuned - "film at 11"? *LOL*
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