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Old Feb 10, 2010, 05:59 AM
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demuddy's Avatar
Seoul, Korea
Joined Nov 2009
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How does PZ Ultra Micro P-51D compare to PZ T-28D as first aileron trainer?

How does PZ Ultra Micro P-51D compare to PZ T-28D as first aileron trainer?

I guess title says it best. I started out with a PZ Vapor BNF and PZ J-3 Cub and am beginning to get the hang of the J-3 Cub. Although I still have a few more dozens of hours of Cub 3-channel training left, I am thinking ahead.

I've read that the PZ T-28 is very fast despite its dihedral trainer characteristics for a low wing warbird. The biggest space I have to fly in is about 3 football fields in size, but without too much wind. The undercambered wing on the micro P-51D is supposed to be easier to fly than the PZ micro Sukhoi, but is it as good of a aileron trainer as the PZ T-28 or D version? I just think that the T-28 will cover the field too quickly and I will run out of flying space. I noticed that no matter how slow a plane flies, the first flights for a newbie requires bigger flying space, before one learns how to slow down a particular plane for comfortable flying.

I'm not thinking of going to a high wing aileron trainer specifically because I can probably mod the PZ J-3 Cub to be that aileron trainer.
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Old Feb 10, 2010, 06:35 AM
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United States, NY, Queens
Joined Oct 2005
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Hi Demuddy,

Are you flying the standard sized J-3 or the micro? If all of your flying experience is with micros, then switching to the fairly large T-28 will be difficult at first. I would then advise you to go for the micro P-51. On the other hand, if the J-3 is the standard sized one, you should be OK going with the T-28, although it is quite a bit bigger than the J-3. Three football fields should be sufficient for you to fly the T-28. Assuming that you will ROG, take offs are no problem, except that it has a tendency to go right to vertical if you pull back on the elevator control. The thing to do is to level it out as soon as it clears the grouond, then go for a gentle climb angle. For landing, I would start circling the field and slowly reducing the throttle until its descending at a steady rate (about 1/4 throttle). Let it continue to circle the field and slowly descend until about 20-25 ft above ground. Increase the throttle to keep it flying level until you are ready for the final approach, then cut the throttle to 1/4 again and let it come in with the power on. just before touching down give it a slight flare so that the main wheels touch the ground a little before the nose wheel. As soon as the wheels touch ground kill the throttle.
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Old Feb 10, 2010, 12:13 PM
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demuddy's Avatar
Seoul, Korea
Joined Nov 2009
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Ok, I flew the regular sized J-3.

Your suggestion seems more familiar with the T-28. Did you also fly the ultra micro P-51D? I'm asking because I...actually went out and just bought the PZ Ultra Micro P-51D.

(Bought it along with a new fuselage for the J-3 to take the guts out of my old J-3 which had been through a catastrophic mid-air meet-and-greet with a immovable metal post--the only obstacle in the entire field). I haven't taken the P-51 out of the box yet since the mid-air collision is still so fresh in my mind that I wanna play it safe with something more familiar for now, just flying the PZ J-3.

In YouTube vids the ultra micro P-51D seems to fly slower than the T-28, but only just. Just wanted to know what it felt like to fly both as a comparison.
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Old Feb 10, 2010, 11:00 PM
Foam flogger
Roseville, CA
Joined Apr 2009
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They're both good planes. Just use low rates with lots of expo when you start out.
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Old Feb 10, 2010, 11:56 PM
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United States, UT, West Jordan
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i am doin gabout the same thing. i have a vapor and recently bought a micro mustang. it is way fast. find a nice sized place and fly on low rates. its pretty sensitive on the roll axis. so be carefull. rolls are the most amazing thing ever though
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 02:16 AM
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demuddy's Avatar
Seoul, Korea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akwardflyer View Post
i am doin gabout the same thing. i have a vapor and recently bought a micro mustang. it is way fast. find a nice sized place and fly on low rates. its pretty sensitive on the roll axis. so be carefull. rolls are the most amazing thing ever though
Whoah, I'd say fast going from a Vapor to a UM P-51! Did you crash a lot, and if so, how did it handle the crashes? How slow were you able to slow down the UM P-51? I can slow the Vapor down now to slow walking speed.
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 08:46 AM
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ya i went fast.. i have flown it 4 times. the first flight i crashed but nothing serious just a wing got half sheared off. some tape and glue and good as new. second flight went better. did a few circuts and then landed nicely. third flight went well also did a roll then proceded to wreck but once again i pulled the nose up and made the crash not so bad. 4th flight was pretty much the same as the third. its still together and still works and flies. going to go fly it some more. its great fun. i have flown the megatech a7 which was pretty fast so i had some experience with faster planes.
i have slowed it down and it flies well at half throttle but ya its pretty fast.
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 03:22 PM
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Seoul, Korea
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Ok, kids, pay attention now!

Teach said "compare" so that means compare, as in two! I'm sho someone's flown both ems, and I wanna know what ye thinks!

Golly, teacher, I didn't realize that was the assignment! I think that the T-28 is less twitchy on ailerons and does an inverted flight better, but both fly very slow at its lowest throttle settings, although the UM P-51 flys a bit faster with higher wing loading...

That sorta answer, kids. Know what I mean?

(BTW, all posts so far have been VERY helpful, but just waiting for the bloke who up and bought both)
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 06:05 PM
Foam flogger
Roseville, CA
Joined Apr 2009
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I have both and it's hard to compare the two. One is an ultra micro and flies like it. It's very maneuverable, twitchy and is probably harder to control. But because it's so damned light you can crater it in from 30 feet up without much damage. The other is larger and faster and easier to fly....if you have the room for it. But if you put it into the ground you're taking a trip to the LHS. 3 football fields is probably enough for most people, but your mileage may vary. It can come in pretty hot on landing so you need to have some room to line it up for first couple times.
Not sure if it means anything, but I fly my T-28 more often. One it's more relaxing to fly and two the P-51 eats thru batteries pretty quickly. Especially when it's cold out.
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belem View Post
I have both and it's hard to compare the two. One is an ultra micro and flies like it. It's very maneuverable, twitchy and is probably harder to control. But because it's so damned light you can crater it in from 30 feet up without much damage. The other is larger and faster and easier to fly....if you have the room for it. But if you put it into the ground you're taking a trip to the LHS. 3 football fields is probably enough for most people, but your mileage may vary. It can come in pretty hot on landing so you need to have some room to line it up for first couple times.
Not sure if it means anything, but I fly my T-28 more often. One it's more relaxing to fly and two the P-51 eats thru batteries pretty quickly. Especially when it's cold out.
Mr. Foam Flogger, you, sir, have done a great service to human kind and non-tool primates alike. One more question, my man Flogger, if you will, if you set the UM P-51 on low rates and 25% expo or so, is it easier to fly and less twitchy?

The one deciding factor that turned me away from the T-28 is its speed (and now, knowing that it doesn't take kindly to newbie-powered nose-dives). Speed freaks me out and probably most all noob kind: it just allows less time to react, and flying three mistakes high for such a fast plane is pretty high.
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 06:56 PM
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United States, CA, Sacramento
Joined Jan 2010
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anyone check out the new eflite p-40 ARTF? It is small, but not micro 3ch aileron with the detail of a fully trimmed plastic model!
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 09:06 PM
Foam flogger
Roseville, CA
Joined Apr 2009
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Yes, if you fly low rates with lots of expo it becomes pretty docile.
About speed thou - I fly my P-51 lower to the ground and closer to me....so that I can see it. Probably not much more than 100 feet high at a maximum and no more than about 300 feet away from me. My T-28 on the other hand I'm not often UNDER 100 feet and I routinely am over a thousand feet away. Often times more. Because of this the T-28 SEEMS slower to me. This is because I have more time to react if I do something stupid. Do something stupid with the P-51 and you're in the dirt in 1-2 seconds. With the T-28 I can spend 10 seconds just trying to figure out which way it's orientated if I'm high/far away. The other thing is that the T-28 is a real floater. Cut the throttle and it will sail forever.
Not saying one is better for you than the other. Just pointing out that comparing max speed isn't telling you the whole story. I've probably put my P-51 into the ground half a dozen times - I've never crashed the T-28.
On the other hand, I can fly the P-51 in the empty field next to my office. No way that's room enough for my T-28.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 09:46 PM
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USA, CA, Norco
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The UM P-51 was my first aileron plane, and I've recently begun flying the T-28. What the others have said is true, the p-51 can be a bit twitchy, but not much a problem in crashes, while the t-28 flies far smoother but also faster. I would say it's actually easier to land the t-28, as it tracks very well and settles nicely while still floating a bit, the p-51 will react to the slightest breeze and make landing a bit more difficult. The tricycle gear on the t-28 is easier for ground handling. Ultimately you could fly either, I might go for the p-51 just because it's cheaper

Edit: I agree with Belem, I've crashed the p-51 several times, but never crashed the t-28
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Old Feb 21, 2010, 01:34 AM
Warbird Flyer
North New Jersey
Joined Dec 2009
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I've flown both.

The T-28 was my first RC plane ever (Although I've flown full size aircraft for about 70 hours, and forever on all the Microsoft Flight Simulators).

First time up I crashed it, not for lack of ability, but because of the scale and my depth perception (ok,ability), I couldn't tell how far away it was from me. Hit a tree 80 feet high, and the wings didn't come down for a month. When they did we were glued back together and flying in no time. Very easy to fly, but can get away from you very quickly. Easy to land.

PZ Micro Mustang is awesome, worth the money. I've never had a bad crash, just a couple of nose overs on landing. I've flown in heavy wind and watched it get taken far far away and been lucky to fly it back. I've hovered in wind while landing, so it was almost vertical like a helicopter, fun indeed! Also if you like it slow, you can land at about jogging speed with no wind, and less if you have a headwind. It can be twitchy, but what better way to learn? I fly mine at 50% dual rate, and go to 100% if I want to roll or do other aerobatics, then back to 50% for landings. I use a DX6i so this is easy.

Best about the Mustang, as I'm a new flyer myself, is that even though technically it is more difficult to fly than the T-28, you don't have the same nervousness when you fly it. Plus if you do lose it and crash, the Mustang won't cause any damage, but the T-28 could really mess up a car or a person with a dog...

I'd go with the Mustang, and when you are comfortable with that you will have no trouble at all with the T-28, it will be easy for you! Good luck!

Also, have you considered the E-flite L-4 Grasshopper? It is the military version of the Piper Cub, but has 4 channels (ailerons) and is fantastic to fly. A little smaller wingspan than the T-28, and much lighter. It requires some building, but not a lot at all. It is balsa, but is well constructed and probably would be OK unless you really took a nosedive!

Regards,

~Joe
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Old Feb 21, 2010, 07:17 PM
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United States, VA, Roanoke
Joined Nov 2009
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is there really any comparison between a micro plane and a regualr size plane?? I cant imagine them flying similar - I started out with the T-28 and its very stable - great power - just comes in a little fast on landing- give yourself lots of room
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