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Old Mar 11, 2011, 11:28 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
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I meant the French 2.4g users (military etc) who control that small portion of the ISM band that is normally available to everybody.

Andy
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 11:36 AM
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Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipa_240sx View Post
Read back a few pages. Horizon Hobby has identified approx 400 TX's that cannot be upgraded via the v2.01 Airware release. The TX must be sent back for a no charge upgrade.

I would try contacting the Horizon Hobby Product Support. Not sure who handles this for AUS.
Yes, am well aware that there are "400" radios that need to be sent back. Our local distributor has said that they cannot do the upgrade themselves, but they haven't offered an alternate.

I am now in contact with HH to highlight the issue.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 01:36 PM
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Central California
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Originally Posted by vic_bull View Post
Alright,
Andy I did some testing to be sure because I noticed this late in the night so I wanted to be sure prior answering. Test conditions:
8000/1000 DSMX 11ms TX in close proximity to rx, about 3 feet, antenna pointing to rx
Powerup everything, TX off - TX on, hold alarm - clear button, wait 15+ sec alarm goes once again for the same hold, clear button, wait random time(sometimes 10 sec, sometimes 1.30 min) it will start again.

Taking seriously your words about brownouts and suspecting electrical noise in Deans connector I rebind to DSM2 everything and start testing again.Hoping to trigger brownout alarm if there is any real brownouts. NO issues, no matter how hard I try to stress the main connector and point th TX anywhere.

Back to DSMX. False alarm goes on after 15 secs of waiting. Go figure.

While making the testing I have found that RX and TM share the common ground which could be bad sometimes. I decided to take main pack voltage from the balancing tabs of my lipos, which is more convenient and mechanically stronger with such tiny wires to TM. My system is 8S made of 2 packs and if I will cross the tabs occasionally I could burn everything up. From the other point of view if the mains pack ground connector will fail for some reason I have a chance of working BEC, funny.

Andy, speaking of holds, frame loses etc. Can you suggest the alarm setting which will indicate that the RF link is going bad and it's time to get back/land. From all this data consisting of frame loses, fades and holds I couldn't figure out what indicates the loss of say 50% of signal and I'd better get back/move to other part of the airspace.

PS
Yes, sorry for messing up fades and frame loses.
I thought at the time that I was gettng a realarm at a random time interval.It could very well actually be the TM signal dropping out and then returning,Maybe today Ill go fly the 600N again and see what I find out.

You said "TX in close proximity to rx, about 3 feet, antenna pointing to rx".
You really want to avoid having the Tx antenna pointing directly at te Rx.The signal radiates from the sides of the antenna and there is actually a "dead zone" coming off the top of the antenna in a cone shape.Antenna pointing straight up is what I use to avoid having the Rx in this dead zone.

There is a telemetry signal indicator on the top left of the main screen.Its the icon that looks like the bars on a cell phone.Its not actually an RSSI(receiver signal strength indicator) but more of a go/no go indicator.If the signal from the TM is weak you wont see fewer bars.The icon will actually flicker off and on with a weak signal or disappear when there is none.

Asking Andy what he suggests for a frame loss alarm setting is kind of a loaded question.I kind of think there is no magic number to warn of an impending signal loss.Since a hold is triggered by 44+ consecutive frame losses having one here and one there and having them add up may not be a danger depending on your particular situation.Obviously if your losing alot of frames in a short period of time it could be a potential issue you might want to look into more.An actual number could likely mean 2 different things in 2 different situations.A frame loss here and there in a noisy 2.4 area is different than if your in an area without alot of other 2.4 signals.Like any data that provides statistics the important part is knowing how to interpret what your seeing.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 02:07 PM
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Russia,Moscow
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Well, of course I know that pointing antennae into RX isn't a good thing. I wasn't able to reproduce the same effect on DSM2 as I said previously which is a bit weird. I didn't notice that the link between TX and TM go down when this happens but I will look once more. As for my question, yes it's kinda hard. I see a lot of info coming from telemetry but this info isn't very much "informative". We need a simple answers to our needs but get serious questions instead. As for myself I see that getting 1 hold might be too late already, where having multiple alarms on losing 20 frames for example might be a point to turn around, the problem is that nobody knows how much time do we have between single loses and a hold which means 1sec out of control which in some situation could be a lot. Again, sorry if I'm pushing but we have an instrument which it seems no one know how to use.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 02:21 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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Vic,

We've only been using the TM1000 for 12-18 months. As we learn how to better use the information it gives us, we're improving the alarming in the radio. We have new features already in the works for a forthcoming release (probably not the next one).

Andy
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 02:30 PM
Air, Ground & Water
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Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
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Vic I think the answer you are looking for is on page 42 of the manual
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 02:34 PM
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Russia,Moscow
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Andy, I will look more into my problem of getting multiple alarms and report back not to confuse everyone. I don't argue and believe in possibility that TM loses signal because of nearby TX thus triggering the unwanted alarm.

Meanwhile I whish to point out one more thing. When you set up some mixes and get back to mix menu you always start with default mix like aile-rudd. When you press roller to select mix1 for example you see zero values for all of the pmixes even if you have them set until you select a particular one. Can we see the mix values while scrolling the roller to know if they are set in the future? Thanks.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 03:02 PM
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Freechip, not exactly. The info we get is good for fine tuning but not enough for inflight occasions. Do you use wifi? Do you see the bars drop when the signal is giving up? And then you know you'd better move closer to the router or the connection will suffer. We don't exactly have it in our situation thus not really warned to turn around and get back to safe signal zone.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 03:16 PM
Air, Ground & Water
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Canada, ON, Rockland
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Antenna fades—represents the loss of a bit of information on that specific antenna. It’s normal to have as many as 50 to 100 antenna fades during a flight. If any single antenna experiences over 500 fades in a single flight, the antenna should be repositioned in the aircraft to optimize the RF link.

Frame loss—represents simultaneous antenna fades on all attached receivers. If the RF link is performing optimally, frame losses per flight should be less than 20.

A Hold- occurs when 45 continuous frame losses occur. This takes about one second. If a hold occurs during a flight, it’s important to re-evaluate the system, moving the antennas to different locations and/or checking to be sure the transmitter and receivers are all working correctly.


IMO you should set for just ONE SINGLE HOLD since having just one is not recommended.
IMO since a normal flight should not have more the 20 then 20 should be the alarm value.

Then if any of these alarms are triggered I would turn around and land. Regardless of the distance and time it takes to get one.


Not sure what else you would want to get from telemetry. Not arguying but simply trying to understand what you want/expect to get from telemetry.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 03:27 PM
The "Foaminator"
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Mar 2007
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I wonder when the Manufactures will come around to just adding flash memory and loggin all the data on the RX right up to a the point of power loss. Then when you walk out to the pieces you can take the RX back and get the flight data DL'ed to a PC and anylize it.

If you have a successful flight plug in a netbook or the likes and DL the flight data, fly again and repeat. I'd much prefer complete logging for the entire flight.

My 2 cents

Hmmm, RC BlackBox?


Mike R
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 03:33 PM
Never stop
Ottawa, ON, Canada
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeruth View Post
I wonder when the Manufactures will come around to just adding flash memory and loggin all the data on the RX right up to a the point of power loss. Then when you walk out to the pieces you can take the RX back and get the flight data DL'ed to a PC and anylize it.
They'll never do that!

If they did, it would be easy to point the finger at them. As it stands, they can always blame a "faulty power connection" or "user error" for everything.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 03:34 PM
jdr43
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USA, AR, Bella Vista
Joined Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeruth View Post
I wonder when the Manufactures will come around to just adding flash memory and loggin all the data on the RX right up to a the point of power loss. Then when you walk out to the pieces you can take the RX back and get the flight data DL'ed to a PC and anylize it.

If you have a successful flight plug in a netbook or the likes and DL the flight data, fly again and repeat. I'd much prefer complete logging for the entire flight.

My 2 cents

Hmmm, RC BlackBox?


Mike R


That's a good idea
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 03:38 PM
The "Foaminator"
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
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Originally Posted by Left_Drift View Post
They'll never do that!

If they did, it would be easy to point the finger at them. As it stands, they can always blame a "faulty power connection" or "user error" for everything.
+1 your probably right~!

MikeR
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 03:43 PM
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The problem is that you might not have these holds spread on time, the one might be enought to evaluate in 10 or 20 at the same time thus giving you 10 or 20 seconds out of control. Speaking of lost frames we don't have any audio/vibe warning on that(and that's probably what might signal an upcoming hold which is bad already). I dunno, I don't want to say that what we have is bad, all I want to say that it's not clear how to use it for the best results. A lot of testing is to be done to understand how to turn it from the raw data to advantage/warning system.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 03:51 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic_bull View Post
A lot of testing is to be done to understand how to turn it from the raw data to advantage/warning system.
Exactly, and we are constantly working on and refining that, and will be explaining how to better use the tool as we make improvements to it.

Andy
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