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Old Nov 22, 2012, 02:07 AM
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Georgia
Joined Jun 2007
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I agree that the DX-8's programming limitations with the multiple switches are a problem.
In particular
Flite mode switch and L&R trim
Momentary PB

Let me also complain about the lack of PC software to read the telemetry log file.
Spectrum users are working on the issue, since it looks like Spectrum/HH isn't willing to do so.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry2020 View Post
I also pointed out that the DX8 is very limited in its user-programmability of the switches.
FM0 should control mixes, along with FM1, FM2 and FM1,2. Some of my configurations require two switches to control flight modes due to this limitation.


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Originally Posted by Barry2020 View Post
Instead of an apology from Andy, what I got for a response was basically saying I should have bought a DX18.
At least you have a choice, now. For more than a year we received this response, without a "full featured" radio available for purchase.


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Originally Posted by Barry2020 View Post
I still donít think thereís adequate information provided by Spektrum to make that kind of decision pre-purchase.
I have to agree. I find the two manuals shipped with DX8s incomplete. The sole DX18 manual is less detailed than the pair of DX8 manuals, but the DX18 is far more complex.

The DX18 is a nice radio. Making full use of its features will take me a long time. I wish it came with a manual filled with charts like yours below.

The DX18 is more flexible than a DX8, which is really nice, but understanding how they intend us to use it isn't clear. So many choices, so little documentation. I spent hours discovering DX8 programming limitations, I'll spend far more discovering DX18 corner cases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry2020 View Post
Hereís a table I complied showing the user-programmable switch capability of the DX8.

Nice table. A few of these in their manuals would really help us make better use of these products.

IIRC, the GEAR switch will control mixes too, offering two positions.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 05:47 AM
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Canada, ON, Rockland
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I was sure the Gear Switch could control mixes but according to the graph it doesn't look like it? I guess will need to check on this myself.

The graph does make it easier to see things, nice work..
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 09:34 AM
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LizardMan,

Thanks for pointing that out. I've updated my switch table to show channel mixing with two Gear positions.

Barry

[
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracknoob View Post

Re: Orange receiver antenna:

So, back in the pits, one of the old hands took exception to my main receiver antenna orientation -- yes, the sat versus main antenna were at right angles as viewed from the side, but I had the main antenna running up and down vertically, too. Sure enough, we laid it down flat, but still kept the other axis at 90 degrees, and then re-did the range check -- NOW it was able to not only pass my usual 'generous' distance (beyond 30 paces) but I even 'stress tested' it by moving like 8 paces further than that, and the darn thing still never glitched a bit on low power. Clearly a better set up and I flew the plane again with no problems.
Can anyone else here confirm that the Orange receiver antenna should be oriented flat rather than up/down?

Thank you!
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by itsme2 View Post
Can anyone else here confirm that the Orange receiver antenna should be oriented flat rather than up/down?

Thank you!
Just for interest which orange receiver are we talking about?
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:49 AM
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South Florida
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Originally Posted by Busher View Post
Just for interest which orange receiver are we talking about?
PRODUCT ID: R610

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ng6%282%29.jpg

Instead of orienting it as shown in this pic, I had the servo wires coming into the radio from the 'top', and then the antenna pointing straight down the other side of the orange case, towards the ground through an opening in the belly pan -- thinking this would give best exposure, especially since it was orthogonal to the sat antennas mounted up in the cockpit. (It also happened to be VERY convenient to insert into this particular plane in that position.)

The 'fix' was merely to lay it flat across the inside of the fuse, antenna now inside the plane, and still orthogonal to the sat antenna.


Angles are always hard to covey on a 2d image, but let's try:



RED = main antenna in it's original position, pointing straight down
GREEN = main antenna in it's new position, inside, flat, pointed from side to side, L to R, now inside fuse
YELLOW = sat antenna running fore and aft along side of cockpit, inside. Unchanged.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:52 AM
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The tip of the antenna is where it's the least strong.

Position the main and sat at 90 to each other and also keep this in mind, don't position antenna tips that would be pointing at you during flight.

When you have them properly position you can fly in excess of 1530ft of altitude and still have near perfect Flight Log Data / signal reception.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:57 AM
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@ tracknoob - yep you got it.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 11:10 AM
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South Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsme2 View Post
Can anyone else here confirm that the Orange receiver antenna should be oriented flat rather than up/down?

Thank you!
I don't know that you will find any specific instruction to that effect, but if you consider common usage, since most planes are accessed from the top, with a flat tray for servos and radio gear, then most receivers will have the antenna end up running either L to R or else fore and aft across the fuse.

Even those mounted on the side of the inside of the fuse will still be fore and aft.

I've never seen anyone (except me) orient one straight up and down, and thus my entire reason for posting: to share that it did not work out well -- I had a 'spotty' range check (compared to past range checks) and then a bona fide lock-out, with a thankful recovery!

So don't do what I did!

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Old Nov 22, 2012, 12:42 PM
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I think the golden rule is have the two antenna at right angles. I have always wondered if that meant fore/aft - left/right or fore/aft - up/down etc.

I have assumed, rightly or wrongly, that it isn't particlarly important as long as they are at right angles... are you suggesting that up/down doesn't work so well? I wonder why?
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Barry2020 View Post
LizardMan,

Thanks for pointing that out. I've updated my switch table to show channel mixing with two Gear positions.

There's another issue, related to FMODE switch and mixes. The available mix triggers are FM1, FM2 and FM1,2.

FM0 isn't offered, making a three position switch effectively a two position switch for controlling mixes. It's three position for flight modes, but not mixes. Making best use of the flight mode switch is key to programming a DX8. Supporting additional combos, like FM0,1 and FM0,2 would be valuable.

More combos for AUX2 and D/R switches would really help. I'd still run out of mixes before fully supporting sailplanes, but the configuration would be easier to operate.

A DX18 looks similar to a DX8 at first glance, but all switches are general purpose. They lack labels like "FMODE", "AUX2", "D/R" and "MIX". Instead, they're A, B, C, D, etc. up through I (the button).

Setting up five flight modes (Acro and heli) using two switches is a major change. Laying out ten flight modes (sailplane) using three switches (your choice of switches) requires serious thought. This is where their skimpy manual comes up short.

To fully explain all DX18 features (and reasons to purchase one) requires an English only manual as thick as their multi-language manual. The DX18 manual should carefully explain RX port mapping, input mapping, flight mode switch choices (there are hard coded limits) and include charts, block diagrams and examples.

Two confusing areas coming from a DX8 are RX port mapping and input mapping. Their manual doesn't include much detail here, considering all aspects involved. TX screens and manual charts could be better. A block diagram would help explain mappings. Imagine actual examples using HH's own products like RadianPro and their new 3m sailplane.

Rx port mapping is a key DX18 feature. Mapping throttle to AUX2 and LAL to RX throttle port (DX18 default with certain sailplane wing layouts) could disable fail-safe features of the RX, without the user knowing. OTOH, it's very powerful, allowing a AR6255 RX to fully support a full-house sailplane, something it can't do bound to a DX8.

Their charts should include headings like yours. Is the left column of the Rx Port chart/screen the port labels printed on their RX units? I think that's what they intended.

I was surprised to find zero (0) DX18 sample model profiles available for download. There's a nice selection available for the DX8, but not one for the DX18.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Central California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulChurchley View Post
I think the golden rule is have the two antenna at right angles. I have always wondered if that meant fore/aft - left/right or fore/aft - up/down etc.

I have assumed, rightly or wrongly, that it isn't particlarly important as long as they are at right angles... are you suggesting that up/down doesn't work so well? I wonder why?
There are general guidelines but I dont think they are a "golden rule" as such.
Thats one of the reasons why doing advanced range/low power testing/checking and examining FL data to determine the best configuration in various applications is important.I have them in various configurations.Ive had a few where I repositioned a couple times during setup and initial testing to find the best looking FL data.There really isnt a one configuration fits all situation.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by aerocal View Post
There are general guidelines but I dont think they are a "golden rule" as such.
Thats one of the reasons why doing advanced range/low power testing/checking and examining FL data to determine the best configuration in various applications is important.I have them in various configurations.Ive had a few where I repositioned a couple times during setup and initial testing to find the best looking FL data.There really isnt a one configuration fits all situation.
Yup, I think at the end of the day, there is no substitute for 'just doing it'.

And, now that I know what a marginal plane looks like on my personal range check, I will be able to have more confidence next time, and as you say, the acid test from that point is then both function in real flying, and checking the number of fades and holds observed (logged or telemetered) while doing that flying.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tracknoob View Post
Yup, I think at the end of the day, there is no substitute for 'just doing it'.

And, now that I know what a marginal plane looks like on my personal range check, I will be able to have more confidence next time, and as you say, the acid test from that point is then both function in real flying, and checking the number of fades and holds observed (logged or telemetered) while doing that flying.
We're you aware that the sat connected to that receiver does not help much in the overall scheme of things? And that you may be better all round changing the receiver for a better one. Whilst it has a sat connector it has been proved that it does not work as an extra receiver, your results may just be from better orientation of the main receiver.
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