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Old Jun 28, 2010, 07:06 AM
Bush Pilots Bounce Higher
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Have you tried setting your hold point a little lower so it stops right away ? When i just set mine up, I notice that at one point it would slow down..but a few clicks latter it would actually stop..
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Old Jun 28, 2010, 09:00 AM
TJin(Guy + Tech)
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Did you calibrate you end points properly?
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Old Jun 28, 2010, 02:44 PM
Castle Support
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfasbend View Post
I have a question about the ICE HV 80.
When I use the "Throttle Hold" switch to power down the heli, the ESC keeps the motor running for about 1 second before it powers down.
Is the a setting to do this immediately? In case of emergency, it's good when it stops right at the moment you flip the switch, not a second (or maybe 2) after that.
Is that possible?

By the way, I use the Set RPM governor mode.

Regards
Guido
Make sure there is no delay programed in the TX...you should be able to use the servo monitor to see the travel of the throttle channel output. This will show you what the ESC is getting.
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Old Aug 08, 2010, 10:00 PM
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I am seeing a large differential between the "Info" calculated throttle % and the actual logged %. For example I am running 12s on a Phoenix Ice 60 HV on my Rex550. I am using the stock 16T pinion on a Scorpion 4025-630. With the esc setup in Set RPM mode, the software tells me I am limited to right at 2250rpm. Any faster and the "Info" box turns red. Knowing that 2300 should be entirely doable, I set it to 2300rpm. Info says the governor needs 97.1% to maintain that rpm.

So I fly it and the numbers are WAY different. 2300 rpm requires an average of more like 80% throttle and never hits 100%. So I set it to 2450 and 2550 to see how that would work. Both run at well under 100% even though the reported required throttle is well over 100%. Below is a flight from today as an example. Most of the flight was at 2300, with a short run at 2450 in order to log it.

So my question is, could this be an esc math issue? Or maybe the motor Kv is off?
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Old Aug 09, 2010, 03:35 PM
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I've got the similar issue on the Governor High mode.
Set up:
T-REX 600 Stock motor 1220KV, 6S, 14T pinion, 170T, CC ICE 100

Castle Link 3.255: Setting desired head speed at 1800RPM results in a throttle input of approx. 39%

In real my setting of 30% throttle input turns out to be 1800RPM.
So I just went back on Castle Link 3.253 in demo mode. Now I get my 1800 RPM at 30% throttle again!
Seems to be an SW issue since 3.254!
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Old Aug 09, 2010, 03:58 PM
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In order to make those rpm calculations, the CC software needs to make some assumptions on the battery pack terminal output voltages.

I assume it uses a value from somewhere in the middle to end of a lipo discharge curve. In addition, the newer lipos really seem to have a low internal resistance, so that also increases the voltage available at the input to the ESC.

These two factors might account for the real world actually being better than the virtual calculation. Just a guess of course.
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Old Aug 10, 2010, 12:40 AM
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I guess I just found out my mistake. I was still running the ESC on 3.21. On this version the 30% corresponds to 1800RPM. After updating to 3.23 according to the Castle Link SW the throttle has to be set to 39%.
So, not only the recalibration of the throttle has to be done after updating to 3.23 but also the throttle curve has to be reset (at least in govornor high and low mode)!?

When in demo mode, the SW assumes the newest firmware of the ESC.
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Old Aug 21, 2010, 05:16 PM
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Im very stumped

First time setting up the castle cc85HV
I ran it for a week on a new build without adjusting anything as it came from the factory because I didnt have a Castle Link.

1st issue:The heli is a stretched trex 600 with 12S batteries, a 14T pinion, 170T main, and an 8 pole 470kv Xera 4030 3Y motor. Strict aerial photography heavy lifter, so no stunt mode, just ramp up to 85% throttle at half-stick, and stay there at that throttle setting. My headspeed is around 1800 at 85% throttle.(in stock esc config, airplane mode)
I have been flying in airplane mode up till today. Switched over to heli mode today when my Castle Link showed up and went through the calibration for throttle in this thread and ended up with end points of 86 high throttle and 86 low throttle. Is that normal? Do I need to keep the throttle end points there?
I also set my timing to low and PWM to outrunner. Now, I seem to have lost almost 200 rpm's at the head. Went from 1800 to 1600. What went wrong?

2nd issue: I plugged in my gearing and battery numbers in an attempt to setup gov mode., I cant set the desired headspeed anywhere near 1800 or it says too fast for governing. I have to put around 1400 or so, what gives?


thanks for your help,
matt
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 09:25 AM
Castle Support
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USA, GA, Statesboro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webdr View Post
Im very stumped

First time setting up the castle cc85HV
I ran it for a week on a new build without adjusting anything as it came from the factory because I didnt have a Castle Link.

1st issue:The heli is a stretched trex 600 with 12S batteries, a 14T pinion, 170T main, and an 8 pole 470kv Xera 4030 3Y motor. Strict aerial photography heavy lifter, so no stunt mode, just ramp up to 85% throttle at half-stick, and stay there at that throttle setting. My headspeed is around 1800 at 85% throttle.(in stock esc config, airplane mode)
I have been flying in airplane mode up till today. Switched over to heli mode today when my Castle Link showed up and went through the calibration for throttle in this thread and ended up with end points of 86 high throttle and 86 low throttle. Is that normal? Do I need to keep the throttle end points there?
I also set my timing to low and PWM to outrunner. Now, I seem to have lost almost 200 rpm's at the head. Went from 1800 to 1600. What went wrong?

2nd issue: I plugged in my gearing and battery numbers in an attempt to setup gov mode., I cant set the desired headspeed anywhere near 1800 or it says too fast for governing. I have to put around 1400 or so, what gives?


thanks for your help,
matt
Matt, you can calibrate you throttle in Heli/Fixed endpoint mode and not run the Gov if that is what you are looking for. You will gain soft start over the airplane mode and you can program the auto-rotation mode if you want.

The Set Rpm GOV mode advises you of the recommended HS for the gearing, motor info and battery information you enter. For example your setup says the HS will be 116.4% of full throttle ( This is a recommendation based off the 3.7v per cell and the ability the power system will have to maintain the HS over the duration of the flight. ) As I described before if you were happy with the way you were flying it before you can set it up in Heli / Fixed Endpoint mode and not change any gearing. You will see the HS decay over the duration of the flight. You can try the GOV mode outside of the recommended parameters as you are using the model for camera work you may find that the GOV can still do a pretty good job outside the recommended range.
You can set it up in Fixed Endpoint mode and run the Heli for the Duration you will be flying and then tach the HS to see what you are turning at the end of the flight...this will tell you what the system is capable of doing and you could GOV the HS at this particular HS. It will let you have virtually the same HS over the duration using a HS that applies to the style of flying you are doing. So if you find the model is maintaining 1650 at the end of the flight then you can set the GOV to 1650 and the HS will be lower in the beginning and then it will maintain this over the duration.

If I were setting up your model based off the numbers I would run a 17t pinion and that would run the throttle very close to the max recommended throttle of 95.8% and it should work very well... the GOV needs overhead to maintain the throttle over the duration of the flight and the 95% is not a true 95% throttle but rather a number that is used to advise the range in GOV mode. If you use the 85% in the GOV mode then you have more over-head in the GOV program...the lowest recommend HS in the GOV mode is at 70% throttle in this range. Castle is not saying it will not work outside of this recommended range but rather it will work best within the recommended range. As battery technology gets better the 3.7 v per cell that the GOV parameters are based off will allow us to work outside of these parameters or recommended ranges.

I recommend running the HS where you want it in GOV mode with the same gearing to see how it works for you... I would then add a bigger pinion and see how much difference there is for your application and you may find it works better for you. Thanks

I would stick with 3.2 firmware for now as I have not flown the newest stuff on the HV 85.

clint@castlecreations.com
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 09:46 AM
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clint, is there any way I could give you a call with my issue? I know its sunday, but I wont take long
If thats cool, pm me your number. If not, Ill call CC support monday.
Matt
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 10:04 AM
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Thanks for your help Clint, Im going to try what you suggested and report back soon.
Matt
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 05:09 PM
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Ok, big progress...but maybe a little to tweak.

I got the governor working and it flies at the desired headspeed (1750), even though it says "too fast to govern" Why is that?
I dont seem to be stressing the system.
15 tooth pinion 170 tooth main
460kv, 8 pole xera 4030 3Y
Motor temp is 121 consistently
ESC temp is 114
battery(s) temp is 105-110

My throttle curve on the radio is:
0 - 89 - 89

First headspeed box 1600
Second headspeed box 1750
Third headspeed box 1750

It seems to ramp up fast to 1600 and overshoot the 1600 mark, then settle back into it. Then from 1600 to 1750 is a somewhat quick transition. Should I adjust my soft start, throttle curves, or what?

Last, the tail does oscillate back and forth, but not with any frequency. Its kinda random (manybe every few seconds?) and very little but it is noticeable.
My gain was at high (35), and I tried medium (25) maybe it helped a little...
Should I try low? I would have today but my batteries got low and I had to pack it up.
Matt
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Old Aug 23, 2010, 06:48 AM
Castle Support
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USA, GA, Statesboro
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webdr View Post
Ok, big progress...but maybe a little to tweak.

I got the governor working and it flies at the desired headspeed (1750), even though it says "too fast to govern" Why is that?
I dont seem to be stressing the system.
15 tooth pinion 170 tooth main
460kv, 8 pole xera 4030 3Y
Motor temp is 121 consistently
ESC temp is 114
battery(s) temp is 105-110

My throttle curve on the radio is:
0 - 89 - 89

First headspeed box 1600
Second headspeed box 1750
Third headspeed box 1750

It seems to ramp up fast to 1600 and overshoot the 1600 mark, then settle back into it. Then from 1600 to 1750 is a somewhat quick transition. Should I adjust my soft start, throttle curves, or what?

Last, the tail does oscillate back and forth, but not with any frequency. Its kinda random (manybe every few seconds?) and very little but it is noticeable.
My gain was at high (35), and I tried medium (25) maybe it helped a little...
Should I try low? I would have today but my batteries got low and I had to pack it up.
Matt
Matt I enjoyed talking with you yesterday and it sounds like you made a lot of progress. As for the GOV Gain I recommended starting at low and actually I believe I would set it to a custom value of 7. As for your question about the GOV program saying you are too fast for proper GOV. this is beacause you are outside of the recommended range. Now as I told you on the phone this does not mean it will not work. The load you are putting on the system is very low compared to a 3D model as you are mostly hovering and the current draw is very low and the Head Speed can easy hold for you.

I would change the Head Speed spool up to a value of 2 and then you should see a nice slow spool up. Turning the Gov Gain to 7 should also help smooth things out. The temps sound good and as I told you on the phone you need to use a temp gun to be able to accurately tell what difference your changes make. Looking forward to hearing back after you try the lower gain.
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Old Aug 23, 2010, 07:33 PM
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Clint,
WOW, what can I say man?
This thing runs better now than it EVER has! I cant thank you enough for helping me understand GOV mode on my atypical AP heli i.e. very different from the standard 3D setup.

Im hovering close to 14 minutes and the CC85HV temp at the end of a long flight isnt even 100 degrees. The motor is around 105 now and the batts are both right at 100. This is superb flight times for a big AP heli. SOme people dont get close to 7 mins flight with their AP rigs and Im at double that.

This is probally the last thing I need to iron out.
The tail twitch disappeared when I set the gov gain to 7, but came back slightly half way through the flight. Should I bump it down to 6? Or could there be other issues. Just for notation, no tail twitch in fixed endpoints.
Thanks!
Matt
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 06:05 AM
Castle Support
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USA, GA, Statesboro
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webdr View Post
Clint,
WOW, what can I say man?
This thing runs better now than it EVER has! I cant thank you enough for helping me understand GOV mode on my atypical AP heli i.e. very different from the standard 3D setup.

Im hovering close to 14 minutes and the CC85HV temp at the end of a long flight isnt even 100 degrees. The motor is around 105 now and the batts are both right at 100. This is superb flight times for a big AP heli. SOme people dont get close to 7 mins flight with their AP rigs and Im at double that.

This is probally the last thing I need to iron out.
The tail twitch disappeared when I set the gov gain to 7, but came back slightly half way through the flight. Should I bump it down to 6? Or could there be other issues. Just for notation, no tail twitch in fixed endpoints.
Thanks!
Matt
Try puling the HS back about 50 RPM if you can just to try it. You are running out side of the recommended range and I feel it would help to drop the Head Speed just a little bit if for nothing else but testing. Then try the simple mode like we talked about and I bet you will find the answer. Sounds like you have made a lot of progress
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