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Old Mar 29, 2010, 04:10 PM
TJin(Guy + Tech)
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United States, NM, Socorro
Joined Jun 2008
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I started the day using "Outrunner" but it was about the same wag. I also started at a gain of 25 but there was chatter. So I dropped to 15 and then finally 13 trying to stop the wag. Then I decided to ask about the graph before I kept trying new settings, as the current setup works pretty well but is just not perfect cause of the wag.

I will keep playing with it.
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Old Mar 29, 2010, 04:12 PM
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Clyde N.C.
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Then I would definitely go ahead & drop the gain down a couple of points keeping check to see that the head speed doesnt drop drastically under load.

Keep us informed!

Steve
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Old May 02, 2010, 01:33 PM
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Joined Dec 2008
60 Posts
Hey

Ive got a Phoenix ICE 100 with a Scorpion S-4025-16.
When calibrating endpoints on Futaba in airplane mode, it arms at 75% on high stick and on 80 on low stick, is this normal ?

Also, what PWM should i run ?

Thanks !

Sören
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Old May 02, 2010, 02:21 PM
A man with too many toys
United States
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Yes

8

.
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Old May 06, 2010, 11:26 AM
TJin(Guy + Tech)
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United States, NM, Socorro
Joined Jun 2008
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Ok new hiccup with Ice50Lite on my 450 (kind of, really it has returned and is getting worse). If I fly around calmly I will eventually get a sharp tail kick about 3in ccw. At first I thought it was the gyro but now I am positive it is the esc. It does not do it when I am hard on the heli. FOr example I can do continuous flips and it holds like a champ but when I just cruise around, say it nice smooth backwards flight, it will do it. Usually it only does it 1-3 times per pack. The last pack this morning I spent just hovering it inverted in front of me. It was great until about 20sec before my timer went off, then it kicked hard (about 5in) and I heard the head speed drop and then over-speed slightly as it leveled off again (just like it does when I first spool up). I flipped it over and half way through the flip it did it again and then again right as I was landing. I have been slowly adjusting the settings and they were

Gain: 10
PWM: 12KHz
Timing: med
Info for HS on Gov page: 87.9%
Temp peaked: 179F
Firmware: 3.20

It does it using the 8KHz PWM also.

I have been logging it but I did not get the inverted hover flight. What should I try next. Does this sound like a settings problem? Or an esc problem? Below is the graph from the first flight. It did the tail kick near the end of the flight and I believe it was at 280sec.
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Old May 07, 2010, 06:19 AM
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I believe the first thing I would try is to up the Gov. Gain just a little.

Steve
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Old May 07, 2010, 09:27 AM
TJin(Guy + Tech)
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Actually yesterday I did fly again after I made 2 adjustments. First I made a gain adjustment of +2 to 12. And secondly I dropped my gov'd rpm from 2950 to 2900. The 3 packs after those changes were utterly perfect but then again 20 or so packs before the previous settings worked well too. It was only the last 6 or so when it started to do the hiccup thing again, and I had made no changes.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is why it was fine and then it developed a problem.

On a side note, what is the maximum preferred temp for the Ice Lite? As the weather gets warmer, I am getting a little worried about the temp of mine. The morning flight was in cool air and showed a max of 179F but the afternoon flight was in mid-80F air and it just bumped into 200F.

Also I would like to recommend a new option on the Ice logging end. How about a option where you allow the Ice to log constantly? When it fills up it simply rolls the old log data off as it adds new. That way it would always have the last flight info. This would be handy in a crash or when some other problem arose, as it would have been logged for sure. To that end how about an option to stop logging after the heli shows, say, 0 rpm for 5sec? That way it doesn't waste log space when you set the heli down to change a setting in thr radio or such. Just a though
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Old May 07, 2010, 09:46 AM
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Clyde N.C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjinguy View Post
Actually yesterday I did fly again after I made 2 adjustments. First I made a gain adjustment of +2 to 12. And secondly I dropped my gov'd rpm from 2950 to 2900. The 3 packs after those changes were utterly perfect but then again 20 or so packs before the previous settings worked well too. It was only the last 6 or so when it started to do the hiccup thing again, and I had made no changes.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is why it was fine and then it developed a problem.

On a side note, what is the maximum preferred temp for the Ice Lite? As the weather gets warmer, I am getting a little worried about the temp of mine. The morning flight was in cool air and showed a max of 179F but the afternoon flight was in mid-80F air and it just bumped into 200F.

Also I would like to recommend a new option on the Ice logging end. How about a option where you allow the Ice to log constantly? When it fills up it simply rolls the old log data off as it adds new. That way it would always have the last flight info. This would be handy in a crash or when some other problem arose, as it would have been logged for sure. To that end how about an option to stop logging after the heli shows, say, 0 rpm for 5sec? That way it doesn't waste log space when you set the heli down to change a setting in thr radio or such. Just a though
The data logger does stop recording after a certain amount of zero throttle time. As for a continuos loop the controller would have to stop "watching the motor" for a period of time to clear & restart & we dont think that wise at this time. You can clear the logger before each flight or at any time if you like by giving a full throttle signature from the Tx at the time you plug in the pack - full throttle if in fixed endpoint or Idle up 2 if set rpm & after 4 seconds the logger will clear. * The motor will not start doing this because it has NOT seen a zero throttle condition to arm.

On your tail issue this might be a shot in the dark but how long has it been since the tail pitch slider has been oiled & the various moving parts associated with it?
I have run into similar problems in the past when I forget to periodically lube my machines. Being electric this gets overlooked a lot because were used to the slime from nitros doing it for us.

Steve
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Old May 07, 2010, 10:45 AM
TJin(Guy + Tech)
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United States, NM, Socorro
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Originally Posted by RS Rogers View Post
... As for a continuos loop the controller would have to stop "watching the motor" for a period of time to clear & restart & we dont think that wise at this time. ...

Steve
No I am not sure I made myself clear. Have the logger log forever. When the buffer fills, just roll off the old data as the new data needs space. That way the logger would contain the last however minutes of logging you flew. I suggest this because many times something happens when you are not expecting it and if you were not expecting it, the log was probably full. This leaves you with no troubleshooting data. This of course could come in handy.

The tail is in fine working order. I know it is a gov issue because I can hear the motor let off for a split second and then recover, slightly overshooting as it does so. Besides a gov change fixed it once again and nothing else was changed. I am starting to believe that the gov has issues if things line up just right. Kind of like resonance frequencies when talking about sound. By changing the head speed just a little, I think it solves the problem. That is just a theory I have thought up.
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Old May 07, 2010, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjinguy View Post
No I am not sure I made myself clear. Have the logger log forever. When the buffer fills, just roll off the old data as the new data needs space. That way the logger would contain the last however minutes of logging you flew. I suggest this because many times something happens when you are not expecting it and if you were not expecting it, the log was probably full. This leaves you with no troubleshooting data. This of course could come in handy.

The tail is in fine working order. I know it is a gov issue because I can hear the motor let off for a split second and then recover, slightly overshooting as it does so. Besides a gov change fixed it once again and nothing else was changed. I am starting to believe that the gov has issues if things line up just right. Kind of like resonance frequencies when talking about sound. By changing the head speed just a little, I think it solves the problem. That is just a theory I have thought up.
Hi tjinguy,

What you are talking about is planned for a future release of the ICE software. We call it a "circular buffer." Basically, when the log gets full, the oldest data will be continuously overwritten by newer data.

Thanx!

Patrick
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Old May 11, 2010, 12:42 PM
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Joined Dec 2009
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Question on new set-up for CC

Working on upgrading my 450SE V2 to an IceLite 50 and a NEU 1107H-1.5Y and wanted to make sure I got it right.

1) I’m looking to run a 12T pinion (150T main gear) and target 2900-3000 rpm headspeed (3S). Using the Set RPM Governor mode that would put me around 94-97.5 %. Is this correct? Is it recommended that I move to the 13T pinion?

2) If I use Governor Simple (instead) do I just set my throttle curves flat for the percent I would like to operate the motor? (i.e. flat 80% = 80% max motor rpm) This would be the same or similar to a Kontronik.

3) For a NEU motor run 12 kHz PMW Rate? Set Current limiting to “insensitive”?

4) What is recommended for Motor Timing?

Here is my CC config file. But the above really addresses the questions I have at this point. Greatly appreciate the help!

################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Tuesday, May 11, 2010
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Sample Frequency: 5 Sample / Sec (*)
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell: 3.0 Volts/Cell (*)
Power-On Beep: Enabled (*)
BEC Voltage: 5
Hex55: 85
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Governor Mode
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Gain: 14
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 2
Head Speed Change Rate: 5
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: Fixed
Vehicle Setup - Battery Type: LiPo
Vehicle Setup - Number of Cells: 3
Vehicle Setup - Battery Voltage: 11.10
Vehicle Setup - Gear Ratio: 12.5000
Vehicle Setup - Pinion: 12
Vehicle Setup - Spur: 150
Vehicle Setup - Motor Kv: 3850
Vehicle Setup - Motor Number of Poles: 4
Desired Head Speed 1: 2800
Desired Head Speed 2: 2900
Desired Head Speed 3: 3000
Data Log Enabled: 255
Motor Timing: 5
PWM Rate: 12 Khz
Brake Strength: 0
Direction: Reverse
Current Limiting: Insensitive (80A)
Motor Start Power: 59
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
Cutoff Voltage: 90
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Last edited by drsmith751; May 11, 2010 at 04:24 PM. Reason: added config file
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Old May 12, 2010, 08:01 AM
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USA, GA, Statesboro
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsmith751 View Post
Working on upgrading my 450SE V2 to an IceLite 50 and a NEU 1107H-1.5Y and wanted to make sure I got it right.

1) I’m looking to run a 12T pinion (150T main gear) and target 2900-3000 rpm headspeed (3S). Using the Set RPM Governor mode that would put me around 94-97.5 %. Is this correct? Is it recommended that I move to the 13T pinion?

2) If I use Governor Simple (instead) do I just set my throttle curves flat for the percent I would like to operate the motor? (i.e. flat 80% = 80% max motor rpm) This would be the same or similar to a Kontronik.

3) For a NEU motor run 12 kHz PMW Rate? Set Current limiting to “insensitive”?

4) What is recommended for Motor Timing?

Here is my CC config file. But the above really addresses the questions I have at this point. Greatly appreciate the help!

################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Tuesday, May 11, 2010
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Sample Frequency: 5 Sample / Sec (*)
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell: 3.0 Volts/Cell (*)
Power-On Beep: Enabled (*)
BEC Voltage: 5
Hex55: 85
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Governor Mode
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Gain: 14
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 2
Head Speed Change Rate: 5
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: Fixed
Vehicle Setup - Battery Type: LiPo
Vehicle Setup - Number of Cells: 3
Vehicle Setup - Battery Voltage: 11.10
Vehicle Setup - Gear Ratio: 12.5000
Vehicle Setup - Pinion: 12
Vehicle Setup - Spur: 150
Vehicle Setup - Motor Kv: 3850
Vehicle Setup - Motor Number of Poles: 4
Desired Head Speed 1: 2800
Desired Head Speed 2: 2900
Desired Head Speed 3: 3000
Data Log Enabled: 255
Motor Timing: 5
PWM Rate: 12 Khz
Brake Strength: 0
Direction: Reverse
Current Limiting: Insensitive (80A)
Motor Start Power: 59
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
Cutoff Voltage: 90
Motor timing should be low.
12 PWM
Current Limiting - Insensitive


"Simple Governor Mode
Simple governor mode is designed to be the easiest to use out of the box. You simply throttle up as if you were in ‘Heli-Fixed’ mode. The throttle stick is directly controlling the power to the motor, and NOT specifying rpm. Once you get to your desired rpm, leave the stick at that position for 1.5 seconds and the ESC will ‘lock’ onto that RPM. If you move the throttle, the head-speed will change accordingly. The only drawback to this mode is you do not know your exact head-speed."

Where ever you set the HS it looks at the the throttle power for 1.5 seconds and then it locks in if you change the throttle it will lock in again in 1.5 seconds. You can put the curves in or the flat throttle and use a tach to determine the Head Speed you want. Set Rpm Mode is a great improvement over Simple mode as you just enter the information on the motor, Battery and gearing, set the Head Speed and go fly. The GOV Gain is the only thing to adjust after that. The Set Rpm Mode will even advise you of the recommend Head Speed.
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Old May 12, 2010, 08:34 AM
A man with too many toys
United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintstone View Post
Set Rpm Mode is a great improvement over Simple mode as you just enter the information on the motor, Battery and gearing, set the Head Speed and go fly. The GOV Gain is the only thing to adjust after that. The Set Rpm Mode will even advise you of the recommend Head Speed.
+1 for the Set RPM mode.


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Old Jun 28, 2010, 12:54 AM
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Joined Jun 2010
1 Posts
ICE HV 80 power down

I have a question about the ICE HV 80.
When I use the "Throttle Hold" switch to power down the heli, the ESC keeps the motor running for about 1 second before it powers down.
Is the a setting to do this immediately? In case of emergency, it's good when it stops right at the moment you flip the switch, not a second (or maybe 2) after that.
Is that possible?

By the way, I use the Set RPM governor mode.

Regards
Guido
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Old Jun 28, 2010, 05:25 AM
A man with too many toys
United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfasbend View Post
I have a question about the ICE HV 80.
When I use the "Throttle Hold" switch to power down the heli, the ESC keeps the motor running for about 1 second before it powers down.
Is the a setting to do this immediately? In case of emergency, it's good when it stops right at the moment you flip the switch, not a second (or maybe 2) after that.
Is that possible?

By the way, I use the Set RPM governor mode.

Regards
Guido
Mine stops instantly. Sounds like you need to lower the hold throttle on your transmitter a little.

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