HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 25, 2012, 06:49 PM
Registered User
wakumann's Avatar
Canada
Joined Jul 2003
2,507 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcbflyer View Post
Nice flying and music Thomas!

Bruno

Who loves "die beste Band der welt"
Hi Bruno
die Kante erinnert ein bisschen ans rote Kliff in Westerland von daher passt ganz gut.

Cheers
Thomas
wakumann is online now Find More Posts by wakumann
RCG Plus Member
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 25, 2012, 08:10 PM
Sloping the Financial Cliff
fcbflyer's Avatar
USA, CA, Santee
Joined Oct 2007
2,463 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakumann View Post
Hi Bruno
die Kante erinnert ein bisschen ans rote Kliff in Westerland von daher passt ganz gut.

Cheers
Thomas
Ha! I never been that far north.
Aber die Schweizer Alpen kenne ich schon
fcbflyer is offline Find More Posts by fcbflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2012, 07:33 PM
Registered User
belouder's Avatar
Seattle
Joined Aug 2005
371 Posts
Nice to see some action on the Cluster thread! I've had two+ years now on them and I'm still sold!! The white w/black (67 oz) has had a few shin hits but other than that it is going very strong. I can pound it into the ground all day and still it looks and flies great. Doing some serious damage with it in our Zip Start Death Match series here. Interesting thing is that the second one (yellow w/black-61.5 oz) has been long in getting it to fly as well (for me) as the heavier one. I think I have it finally sorted though.

About landing diff and such: I now use about 3-4 mm of camber in landing approach and the aileron diff reverses when the flaps come down. Really sold yaw control now-no waggling as I correct the heading. The flaps slow this thing down so much that my approaches still tend to be rather steep and fast-my goal this season is to get the "low and slow" approach that our F3J Jr WC champs seem to favor. We'll see how that goes.

"isoaritfirst"-your color scheme looks rather familiar-I actually thought it was a pic of mine!!

BK
belouder is offline Find More Posts by belouder
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2012, 09:46 AM
Win=span\massXpractice+lu ck
webbsolution's Avatar
Joined Jul 2007
3,072 Posts
The 801 is a great design, on its own with some effort its a formidable plane.

IF they are getting a c68 molded plane in the low 60's then its time for the designers to consier the recent trend of larger spans and spread tow.

A low to mid 60's 3.9 m tragi with a longer nose and larger rudder could be a major player in J. Considering the fabric used for this model now one can assume a relatively lite outcome by moving to ST where potentially valuable.

At its current span its relatively fast when required and it can float surprisingly well. It lands well and I have never seen one fail on any winch. Its a great plane but not adopted by elite contest pilots in mass.

Sleeping giant - needs to be jerked awake with span
webbsolution is online now Find More Posts by webbsolution
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 30, 2012, 02:17 PM
Registered User
R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Joined Nov 2005
3,556 Posts
I would love to see a bigger one, but I like what I have and am really looking to see how my E-801 is going to work. I have the firewall in mine and will have the wing pretty well done this PM and then lots of soldering and changing some lead lengths in the fuse. I got the fuse to go with a new wing I got with a new Tragi this winter, it is one of the RDS wings. The fues feels major lite, but with nothing in it as compared to the structure and ballast set up, pushrods, etc. I will post a couple of pics this weekend.

Marc
R.M. Gellart is offline Find More Posts by R.M. Gellart
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 02, 2012, 02:45 AM
isoaritfirst
isoaritfirst's Avatar
Not a Brummie/but close
Joined Sep 2005
1,403 Posts
You are right BK - just saw yours and said I want one.

Most of my models are yellow and black - it seems to work well in our often dull skies.

Mine is the heavy layup.
isoaritfirst is offline Find More Posts by isoaritfirst
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 02, 2012, 06:06 AM
Registered User
Finland, Klaukkala
Joined Sep 2011
49 Posts
My cluster with heavy layup weights 1810grams,not bad....Rumours about new model is on:-) V-tail at standart might come,i somehow prefer x-tail.Some pilots who fly egida,says that its large and small v-angle are really good to fly.heino was looking egidas tail at competition in estonia
janne savolainen is offline Find More Posts by janne savolainen
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 02, 2012, 10:40 AM
Registered User
belouder's Avatar
Seattle
Joined Aug 2005
371 Posts
Over here in the US most (if not all) of the Clusters I've seen are one layup-I'm assuming its the "heavy" layup? My yellow and black (#717) comes in at 61.5 oz. (1743 g). If that's heavy, how much lighter do they get?

BK
belouder is offline Find More Posts by belouder
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 02, 2012, 12:00 PM
F3X
Registered User
F3X's Avatar
Costa Mesa, CA USA
Joined Jun 2001
1,822 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by belouder View Post
Over here in the US most (if not all) of the Clusters I've seen are one layup-I'm assuming its the "heavy" layup? My yellow and black (#717) comes in at 61.5 oz. (1743 g). If that's heavy, how much lighter do they get?

BK
I order the FLC version all carbon competition w/the high modules spar. They offer a lighter D box and a heavier carbon as well std.

In all carbon they don't get much lighter (do they need to be :-) the d box saves just a smidgen and IMHO not really worth it, as the carbon can take everything you can throw at it and now with guys looking at E versions you would want the extra flutter resistance an all carbon wing gives at a light weight.

ST. One reason you see such a large weight savings from some other mfg going to spread tow is not 100% just from the material change. Its from the extra attention given to other construction areas on the model they made improvements on. To get weight down you need to tighten up a little here and there on everything. Something Tragi has always done and IMHO is the benchmark in quality on "production" models. They get these weight out of the box with "conventional materials" because they do a very very good job. If you ever have the unfortunate opportunity to see the inside of a 801 you will see its as nice as the outside. No excess spooge, gaps, drips anywhere. Lite & Tight.
F3X is offline Find More Posts by F3X
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2012, 12:38 AM
Registered User
belouder's Avatar
Seattle
Joined Aug 2005
371 Posts
Believe me-I have no reason nor desire to wish for a lighter version. Even my "heavier" Tragi (67 oz) flies very well (in fact I prefer it to the lighter version-some magic in the setup or something) and both are VERY stout. I do a LOT of landing practice and have yet to have any issues arise from repeatedly pounding the Cluster into the ground.

Regarding ST-someone else has had this conversation with Tragi and they were told that ST has yet to yield the quality of finish that Tragis are known for and until they feel they can put out something that satisfies them, no ST.

I HAVE seen the inside of these airframes (don't ask) and Tom is correct-the quality of work in places you can't see (or concieve of how the heck they get in there!) is rather stunning.

And to isoaritfirst: I'll be wanting a comission on that color scheme.......

BK
belouder is offline Find More Posts by belouder
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2012, 03:34 AM
isoaritfirst
isoaritfirst's Avatar
Not a Brummie/but close
Joined Sep 2005
1,403 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by belouder View Post

And to isoaritfirst: I'll be wanting a comission on that color scheme.......

BK
No chance BK = you got the stripes on all wrong
isoaritfirst is offline Find More Posts by isoaritfirst
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2012, 11:02 AM
Win=span\massXpractice+lu ck
webbsolution's Avatar
Joined Jul 2007
3,072 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by F3X View Post
I order the FLC version all carbon competition w/the high modules spar. They offer a lighter D box and a heavier carbon as well std.

In all carbon they don't get much lighter (do they need to be :-) the d box saves just a smidgen and IMHO not really worth it, as the carbon can take everything you can throw at it and now with guys looking at E versions you would want the extra flutter resistance an all carbon wing gives at a light weight.

ST. One reason you see such a large weight savings from some other mfg going to spread tow is not 100% just from the material change. Its from the extra attention given to other construction areas on the model they made improvements on. To get weight down you need to tighten up a little here and there on everything. Something Tragi has always done and IMHO is the benchmark in quality on "production" models. They get these weight out of the box with "conventional materials" because they do a very very good job. If you ever have the unfortunate opportunity to see the inside of a 801 you will see its as nice as the outside. No excess spooge, gaps, drips anywhere. Lite & Tight.
I totally agree on the model quality. It is the best fit and finish in the market. However, finish does not win contests. It sucks that the MFR is not interested in more agressive contest layups. It seems like they have figured out how to get this span perfectly lite, none are blowing up - the introduction of some span is so logical.

There are a LOT of pilots who will invest in a plane that at its concept is for contest use and not as pretty as the current runs. I sold mine because there is a diferent flying style required for this bird Vs my Xplorers and I did not want to be divided and was well invested in Xplorers which are working better for me as a contest oriented pilot. The tragi series is great I just think the MFR is missing the boat.

Your points on the other factors that go into making a model lite are valid but ST will invariably lower the weight allowing for more span.
webbsolution is online now Find More Posts by webbsolution
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2012, 09:24 PM
Registered User
R.M. Gellart's Avatar
Joined Nov 2005
3,556 Posts
Littla left to do, but the E-Tragi is just about in one piece. As it stands now, with a hacker A20 W/4.4 GB/3500rpm/v, 1800mah TP 3S 65C, 2S LiFe 1100mah, and normal complement of serovs and RX. As it looks now, the fuse gained about 7.5 ounces give or take. This is better than the E-Supra I put together before this. If this plays out the ET should weigh about 72oz and ES weighes 73oz. Respectively, the empty Tragi weighes about 66, and the Supra Pro (glass wing) weighes 60.5 empty. The Supra fuse is heavier and is the older style e-version, also it took an ounce in the arse end to get the CG, it was the first try. The ET fuse has no guts inside like the regular one, nothing other than the driver for the stab and the main stab pivot assembly. Also, the ES fuse has the older and heavier boom and unlike the Supra Pro has a foam rudder.

If all works well, should fly this weekend.

Marc
R.M. Gellart is offline Find More Posts by R.M. Gellart
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 05, 2012, 01:12 AM
Registered User
Tuomo's Avatar
Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
2,431 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by webbsolution View Post
I totally agree on the model quality. It is the best fit and finish in the market. However, finish does not win contests. It sucks that the MFR is not interested in more agressive contest layups. It seems like they have figured out how to get this span perfectly lite, none are blowing up - the introduction of some span is so logical.

There are a LOT of pilots who will invest in a plane that at its concept is for contest use and not as pretty as the current runs. I sold mine because there is a diferent flying style required for this bird Vs my Xplorers and I did not want to be divided and was well invested in Xplorers which are working better for me as a contest oriented pilot. The tragi series is great I just think the MFR is missing the boat.

Your points on the other factors that go into making a model lite are valid but ST will invariably lower the weight allowing for more span.
Sorry, what is MFR?

I have a history with Heino, Years back I flew Tragi 705 for a few years. Then got frustrated as I did not get the changes I wanted... Well the Cluster came out maybe a year after I had made my decision.

The problem I see with Tragi, is that Heino is not F3J pilot himself and F3J scene is not so active in Estonia and (Baltic countries in general). These two factors give CZ and SVK manufacturers and NAN in Bulgaria a definitive advantage when it comes to improving products.

Otherwise Cluster 801 is a very nice plane. If you like it, I see not problem flying it in competitions.
Tuomo is offline Find More Posts by Tuomo
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 05, 2012, 01:42 AM
Registered User
Tampere, Finland
Joined Oct 2009
146 Posts
MFR = manufacturer?

Tommy
Tommy Wee is offline Find More Posts by Tommy Wee
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Build Log Speed 2.0M from F3x.com paladindg Slope 32 Jun 08, 2007 11:15 AM
Discussion V2 from f3x.com - Opinions. hanknmorgan Slope 40 Feb 07, 2006 05:43 PM
Mini NYX at F3X.com banknyank Electric Sailplanes 6 Sep 23, 2002 02:35 AM
Anyone else having problems getting to F3X.com? GregG Electric Sailplanes 5 Jun 22, 2001 02:17 AM
F3X.com Introduction F3X Electric Sailplanes 6 Jun 16, 2001 12:03 AM