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Old Feb 03, 2010, 08:59 PM
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Joined Aug 2009
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Hey, I had remember seeing that video sometime ago and I was actually watching it while you posted it.
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Old Feb 03, 2010, 09:24 PM
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North vancouver, B.C. Canada
Joined Apr 2008
18,455 Posts
position your camera level with the fuse or glide angle when landing fpv

come in for a dive and set whichever brakes you can set up with your plane
spoilerons flaps crow ect.

if you have to do "s" truns or even a loop before landing to SLOW yourself down
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 01:34 AM
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stevekott's Avatar
Southern California
Joined Jul 2009
526 Posts
Hey Kyle,

Lots of good advice using spirals and S-turns.

Spirals can be a little disorienting with the goggles on.

I just built an EZ* http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1182769

The one thing I wanted to try was large flaps.

I have a similar problem in that all the places I fly seem to be surrounded by tall trees.

The flaps I installed can also rise 20 degrees like spoilerons. That definitely kills lift but the plane still flies pretty hot on landing after a steep descent.

At 40 degrees of flaps I can easily use IBCrazy's method above. Once I clear the trees I can shove the nose over and with all the drag coming from the flaps I don't exceed 20 mph. Then close to the ground flare out and it just drops on to the grass.

You might be able to use a v-tail mixer to get your existing ailerons to become flaperons. Just be careful about adverse yaw. Too much deflection down on an aileron on a high aspect wing can actually cause enough drag to cause the plane to turn the opposite direction of intent.
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 05:17 AM
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Andology's Avatar
UK
Joined Jun 2006
714 Posts
Another thing you may want to try if you're landing in limited space is to put some Wet&Dry sandpaper covering strip on the belly of the Fuzz, it will slow / reduce the skidding along the ground (and into tree stumps) loads..

Cheers

Andy
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 06:23 AM
Dave Mackie
London
Joined Oct 2005
242 Posts
could you side slip it in??
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 06:24 AM
I think my wheels fell off.
Thumb_number's Avatar
Perth
Joined Oct 2009
894 Posts
I have lots of trouble learning to land too (note current tense!). My Zeph with me behind the sticks at low speeds is sketchy at best.

I cant find a 'hot' landing clip, but thats what I've worked out to suit me best, push in over the trees, level out, and skid her in.

You see from the clips that trying to come in slow, for me, is asking for a cartwheel of destruction.

(in my defence, it was windy!)

http://www.vimeo.com/9201914
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 08:04 AM
Id rather be flying
RodrigoV's Avatar
Spain
Joined Feb 2007
270 Posts
My 2 cents:

First off you must know your airplane and be able to land it in third person without complications.

Do 4 or 5 touch and gos but pay a lot of attention to the attitude of the plane while landing.

A lot comes in to play depending the lens you are using (wide or narrow) but try to imagine yourself inside the airplane while doing the third person landing practice.

Now strap on your airplane and fly FPV.

Do a couple landing procedures but without actually landing.

Sense the attitude of the plane during a gentle descent (at a medium speed try to go faster than what you would normally do) and see where the horizon is leveled in the image. That is what you should see during the FPV landing.

If you already feel comfortable then go ahead do a full landing touching the tarmac but sparing enough speed to go back up to the air if necessary.

If everything went well, then kill the engine, keep your tracking within the runway and the plane will come down to a stop.

After 2 or 3 landings you will see it is much easier landing FPV than landing TPV (third person view)

See a few videos of my touch and gos:

Extreme Aggressive FPV flights. Super low FPV flying. (3 min 35 sec)
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 12:36 PM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
28,203 Posts
Practice practice practice..

That and knowing where your plane is going rather than paying attention to where
the nose is pointed. Realize that your view is a 2d representation of a 3d world
and use that to your advantage. Whenever the plane is flying and you're looking forward
there is some part of the screen where pixels appear to be moving "down",
and another where they appear to be moving "up". In between them is a point
that is not moving up or down, but just getting bigger (closer).
That point that is neither moving up or down, is where the plane is going.
That seems obvious but most people don't recognize that or use it. This is
true whether you can see the nose or not, whether the camera is angled up or
down a bit, whether the power is on or off, or you're at a high angle of attack.
The point that is not moving up or down in your view, is where the plane is going.

When you cut the power and let the airspeed drop until you're on a stable descent path
simply find that point in the frame, which is somewhere on the ground if you're descending,
that is not moving up or down and that's where you'll end up landing.
If that point is beyond your target LZ, then either do S-turns to burn up
the altitude quicker, or go around for another approach and start descent further
back or with less power. If you're coming in a little short then increase power just
enough to make that point that doesn't move rise a bit in the frame and then just
hold steady low power on that path until you intersect where you want to.

Practice just doing descents and finding that non-moving point in the frame and
trying to place it on the ground where you want to land without actually landing.
And if you have a tight LZ surrounded by trees, don't make your approach flying
straight and level over the trees. Start higher and further back and adjust
your descent to put the non-moving point right at the tops of the trees.
You want to be on a low airspeed, high angle descent that causes you to just clear
the tips of the trees and continue down at the same rate to the ground.
The problem with coming in level over the trees is that you'll likely have
too much airspeed because you need to fly faster to stay level. You
chop the throttle and it takes time to establish a stable descent and you end up
running long of the LZ.

Another way to deal with a line of trees is to come at it parallel. Come in
parallel and close to the trees on the LZ side, 90 degrees from your final approach,
descend until you're actually below the tops of the trees, and then make a tight 90
degree turn onto final which will burn up some more altitude and drop you where you
want to be.

Lastly, learn how to fly a conventional landing pattern.
Downwind (not always downwind, but is always opposite direction as final), base, final.

Establish your decent rate on the downwind leg. Turn 90 degrees to base
when you feel as though the combination of the distance of base and final will put
you where you want. If you're high on downwind, then just go further before turning
to base and final. That way you're not trying to make all your airspeed and decent
angle decisions on final (as many people do). Realize also that if you are
flying a true downwind leg and final is upwind, that you're effective descent angle
will increase as you turn to final, because your ground speed will decrease.
That means you can be a little high on downwind and base and
still drop it in on final. Or you know you can fly downwind and base as though
there is no wind, and then increase power slightly on final to decrease descent
rate to get you to the LZ.

While I fly planes with power, virtually all my landings are dead stick. I rarely
land more than 50-100 feet from my base station. One advantage to always
gliding in for a landing is that you generally *will not* stall once a stable descent
is established. Many people stall because they're trying to fly level or at
too low a decent rate for the given power. They're trying to pull up
to go up instead of powering up to go up. If you take away the power
then there's no ambiguity about what the descent rate needs to be. Then just
adjust approach pattern to make it longer or shorter until you intersect the
ground where you want.

BTW, Flaperons on EZG or similar are not a great idea. It'll reduce
aileron effectiveness and increase chance of tip stalls.
Spoilerons (both ailerons up) is more useful. You won't tip stall, and it will increase
your descent rate when you need it.

ian
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 12:40 PM
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Fishbone4u's Avatar
Irving, TX
Joined Apr 2006
525 Posts
great plane...great flying...great landing!



Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxiex View Post
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 04:26 PM
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Joined Aug 2009
2,047 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Practice practice practice..

That and knowing where your plane is going rather than paying attention to where
the nose is pointed. Realize that your view is a 2d representation of a 3d world
and use that to your advantage. Whenever the plane is flying and you're looking forward
there is some part of the screen where pixels appear to be moving "down",
and another where they appear to be moving "up". In between them is a point
that is not moving up or down, but just getting bigger (closer).
That point that is neither moving up or down, is where the plane is going.
That seems obvious but most people don't recognize that or use it. This is
true whether you can see the nose or not, whether the camera is angled up or
down a bit, whether the power is on or off, or you're at a high angle of attack.
The point that is not moving up or down in your view, is where the plane is going.

When you cut the power and let the airspeed drop until you're on a stable descent path
simply find that point in the frame, which is somewhere on the ground if you're descending,
that is not moving up or down and that's where you'll end up landing.
If that point is beyond your target LZ, then either do S-turns to burn up
the altitude quicker, or go around for another approach and start descent further
back or with less power. If you're coming in a little short then increase power just
enough to make that point that doesn't move rise a bit in the frame and then just
hold steady low power on that path until you intersect where you want to.

Practice just doing descents and finding that non-moving point in the frame and
trying to place it on the ground where you want to land without actually landing.
And if you have a tight LZ surrounded by trees, don't make your approach flying
straight and level over the trees. Start higher and further back and adjust
your descent to put the non-moving point right at the tops of the trees.
You want to be on a low airspeed, high angle descent that causes you to just clear
the tips of the trees and continue down at the same rate to the ground.
The problem with coming in level over the trees is that you'll likely have
too much airspeed because you need to fly faster to stay level. You
chop the throttle and it takes time to establish a stable descent and you end up
running long of the LZ.

Another way to deal with a line of trees is to come at it parallel. Come in
parallel and close to the trees on the LZ side, 90 degrees from your final approach,
descend until you're actually below the tops of the trees, and then make a tight 90
degree turn onto final which will burn up some more altitude and drop you where you
want to be.

Lastly, learn how to fly a conventional landing pattern.
Downwind (not always downwind, but is always opposite direction as final), base, final.

Establish your decent rate on the downwind leg. Turn 90 degrees to base
when you feel as though the combination of the distance of base and final will put
you where you want. If you're high on downwind, then just go further before turning
to base and final. That way you're not trying to make all your airspeed and decent
angle decisions on final (as many people do). Realize also that if you are
flying a true downwind leg and final is upwind, that you're effective descent angle
will increase as you turn to final, because your ground speed will decrease.
That means you can be a little high on downwind and base and
still drop it in on final. Or you know you can fly downwind and base as though
there is no wind, and then increase power slightly on final to decrease descent
rate to get you to the LZ.

While I fly planes with power, virtually all my landings are dead stick. I rarely
land more than 50-100 feet from my base station. One advantage to always
gliding in for a landing is that you generally *will not* stall once a stable descent
is established. Many people stall because they're trying to fly level or at
too low a decent rate for the given power. They're trying to pull up
to go up instead of powering up to go up. If you take away the power
then there's no ambiguity about what the descent rate needs to be. Then just
adjust approach pattern to make it longer or shorter until you intersect the
ground where you want.

BTW, Flaperons on EZG or similar are not a great idea. It'll reduce
aileron effectiveness and increase chance of tip stalls.
Spoilerons (both ailerons up) is more useful. You won't tip stall, and it will increase
your descent rate when you need it.

ian
Thanks for all of the great information! I think I remember reading something about that static visual point in a aeronautical book once upon a time. Never thought about applying that to FPV flying.
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 05:14 PM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
28,203 Posts
Yep, you can do the same thing in a full scale aircraft by holding your head still
and sighting on that non-moving spot through the windshield.
And if you see the nose going up but the static visual point is going down,
then you're approaching a stall.

I've been meaning to put some of my landing clips together so here was a convenient
excuse to do so.
FPV Landings - power planes (9 min 30 sec)

Notice how I'm usually flying at least two legs of the landing pattern but the legs can be
of varying lengths as I will turn when I think I'm on the right glide slope to make the landing
where I want.

Keep an eye out for the non-moving visual point whenever I'm lined up on final and
see if you can predict roughly where I'll touch down. I often aim a little short
but carry enough airspeed to ride the ground effect a bit long, and I can drop it
anywhere in between.

ian
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 07:14 PM
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Carlyle Harper's Avatar
Joined Feb 2007
1,278 Posts
I've got a couple of landing videos of a sr. telemaster. My landing pretty much consist of skimming the tree tops then diving down once clear and modulate the elevator for a soft landing.
Sr. Telemaster landings Part 2 (33 min 52 sec)
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 07:33 PM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
28,203 Posts
That treeline doesn't exactly constrain your approach into a 1000 ft long runway though.

ian
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Old Feb 05, 2010, 01:52 AM
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North vancouver, B.C. Canada
Joined Apr 2008
18,455 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
BTW, Flaperons on EZG or similar are not a great idea. It'll reduce
aileron effectiveness and increase chance of tip stalls.
Spoilerons (both ailerons up) is more useful. You won't tip stall, and it will increase
your descent rate when you need it.

ian
crow with the ez glider pro works very well for fpv landing
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Old Feb 07, 2010, 06:16 AM
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Joined Aug 2009
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So I tried some landings yesterday. I took the advice of diving for the ground and then leveling out at the last second. It felt really wierd, but worked wonderfully. I'm landing in a distance of about 50 yards now.
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