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Old Jan 25, 2010, 11:06 PM
I got too many hobbies!
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United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined May 2009
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More bad news for the climate change drones.

Seems as if the arguments that I have used to describe the "consensus" on climate change has been proven to be correct by the UN's own scientist. They first admitted that the evidence was poor, now they say they did it just to infulence policy. Who coulda thought there was such thing as an unobjective scientist?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-verified.html



BTW: We told you so.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 11:25 PM
Cat Rack
MtnGoat's Avatar
Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
1,478 Posts
Check out my thread on IPCC: Fail

didn't even follow their own standards. tons of claims direct from advocacy group World Wildlife Federation made into the final version of the last report...none are peer reviewed studies...and that's what Warmists have been hanging their hat on, isn't it? Peer review?

Ever since Climategate broke there has been a definite change in tone from the Warmists, the Glaciergate deal of simply putting years old claims from an article based on a single phone call was really telling, even more was NASA's complicity in shaving 5 years off that claim! Now we have a lot more claims simply dumped into the final report, direct from enviro outfit, no peer review science.

On my other board, the crickets have been chirping and the tumbleweeds blowing once these latest things broke. Before, you couldn't go an hour with out machine gun back and forth...like here. Now as the IPCC crumbles...silence.

This is what happens when you let political and social desires, and feelings, overwhelm your commitment to proper process.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 11:40 PM
I got too many hobbies!
BRETT65's Avatar
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined May 2009
51 Posts
Truth always wins in the end, and with it comes Freedom.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 05:57 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
1,092 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRETT65 View Post
Seems as if the arguments that I have used to describe the "consensus" on climate change has been proven to be correct by the UN's own scientist. They first admitted that the evidence was poor, now they say they did it just to infulence policy. Who coulda thought there was such thing as an unobjective scientist?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-verified.html



BTW: We told you so.
Yet, even the useful idiots still claim faith in the GW cause.

We're going to need some old fashioned "de-programmers" to help the tie-dyed crowd come back from their fantasy and join reality.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 08:09 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
12,887 Posts
I think I've said this a few times before, or something very similar.

Is there any proof that there is NO climate change happening, whether cooling or warming. In other words, the climate can be shown to be, and will always be exactly the same. (Plus or minus a little bit obviously).

To me it's like two extremist camps, the, 'there is climate change', and the, 'no there isn't'.

If the 'yes' camp came up with 'proof', (Ok lies, half truths, occasional facts), why hasn't the 'no' camp come up with irrefutable evidence, (so they can't be accused of lies, half truths etc), that climate change isn't happening.

All the 'no's' seem to say is, 'I told you so', and rely totally on finding any misleading statements from the 'yes' camp.

Where is the proof, that climate change isn't taking place.

And if someone says, 'well actually it is changing, but..............', and then uses the, '......but it's not man made'.

I will ask the obvious question, 'can/could man influence the climate ?'.

I still don't know, but I would hazard a guess, (i.e. no proof), but that we probably could influence the climate, in exactly the same way we can pollute the ground and water.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 08:29 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
1,270 Posts
Duplicate, sorry.
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Last edited by madsci_guy; Jan 26, 2010 at 08:41 AM.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 08:40 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray View Post
Is there any proof that there is NO climate change happening, whether cooling or warming. In other words, the climate can be shown to be, and will always be exactly the same. (Plus or minus a little bit obviously).
There's plenty of evidence the climate has changed quite a bit over the last number of millenia.

Quote:
To me it's like two extremist camps, the, 'there is climate change', and the, 'no there isn't'.
But the anti-HCGW camp has always said there's been climate change.

Quote:
If the 'yes' camp came up with 'proof', (Ok lies, half truths, occasional facts), why hasn't the 'no' camp come up with irrefutable evidence, (so they can't be accused of lies, half truths etc), that climate change isn't happening.
1. You're erecting a strawman.
2. The leaked memos and the NOAA graph show clearly a bias introduced into the data that if left unbiased, whould show far less change than is being touted by the warmist camp.

Quote:
All the 'no's' seem to say is, 'I told you so', and rely totally on finding any misleading statements from the 'yes' camp.
That's how Science can work, and often does. One guy puts forth a theory and people see if they can disprove it.

Quote:
Where is the proof, that climate change isn't taking place.
Strawman. See above.

Quote:
And if someone says, 'well actually it is changing, but..............', and then uses the, '......but it's not man made'.

I will ask the obvious question, 'can/could man influence the climate ?'.
When rather severe climate change has taken place long before man was populous or industrialized enough, to reasonably be responsible, there's convincing evidence that man does not have to be responsible for large shifts in the climate.

Quote:
I still don't know, but I would hazard a guess, (i.e. no proof), but that we probably could influence the climate, in exactly the same way we can pollute the ground and water.
Ok, so you have an opinion. Would you spend many trillions of dollars, and affect the lives of billions on the planet, forcing them to stay out of any economic improvement just because you have an opinion?

Because the "cure" for human caused global warming is so very radical and will cause such economic disruption, I would think you would want to know beyond a reasonable doubt, that what you're trying to cure is worth the cost.
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Last edited by madsci_guy; Jan 26, 2010 at 09:46 AM. Reason: speling
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 08:42 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
1,092 Posts
Guys, there is no debate about the fact that weather is changing. It is.
And it's been changing since the planet was formed and will continue to change.

The question is whether man is causing it, which we aren't.
The GW liars simply wanted us to believe that mankind was causing weather to change in order to use it as a reason for global redistribution of wealth and power.

Now that the lie has been exposed, we can move on and start getting rid of all these little pissants who are trying to ruin our lives for their own benefit.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 09:09 AM
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Houston Intercont, Texas, United States
Joined Jun 2001
122 Posts
I don't think anybody is arguing that there isn't any climate change. That has been proven many times. The ice ages, the medieval warm period. Etc. The question is, is man causing it. I don't know, but I have my doubts. At least there has never been enough proof that man is causing it to tax businesses ala the "Carbon Tax". Or the headlong rush at great expense to find alternative energy sources because of the so called build up of CO2. Sure, we need to find alternate energy sources, but not at the expense of jobs here at home. And, I don't believe for one second that the so called "green jobs" will out number the jobs we lose. I believe that is just a big liberal plan for more Govt. control. It kind of backfired on them and now they are trying to make excuses for their conclusions.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 10:32 AM
Cat Rack
MtnGoat's Avatar
Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray View Post
Is there any proof that there is NO climate change happening, whether cooling or warming.
No. Asking for proof of a negative is an irrational expectation to start with. Basing ideas in a illogical expectation is not a good start.

Further..climate always changes and always will.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 11:06 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricflyer6 View Post
Climate change is happening.Is it man made? we cant be sure at this point, but why take more risks? what is so wrong with reducing emissions and c02 levels.Is lowering our carbon footprint such a horrible thing to do?.
Hey, I have an idea. Let's kill off half the people on the planet.
That would lower human caused emissions by 1/2.

Like you said, it's better to be safe than sorry.

By the way, none of us are likely old enough to remember the open smokestacks in the early part of the 1900's.
Many big cities were in smog much of the time, and you could see rising smoke for miles away from almost any city with a population over 100,000.

So we've lowered all those emissions by about 95% from those days which means that most people have already decided that lowering emissions isn't such a horrible thing to do.
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 11:09 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Here's what people forget from "The good 'ol days":

Circa 1900. "Illinois Steel Works, Joliet." Detroit Publishing Co
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 11:23 AM
Not THAT Ira
Real Ira's Avatar
Coupeville, Wa
Joined Jan 2006
4,722 Posts
Here's another about face that will make you laugh yourself right out of your chair.

Remember all the freaking out about the "ozone hole" (the last climate scam angle)?

Now it is being claimed as a God send and saving the earth from Global Warming.

http://news.scotsman.com/scitech/Now...one.6012558.jp
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 11:44 AM
IAMCANADIAN
Grejen's Avatar
Canada, BC, Squamish
Joined Jul 2002
4,744 Posts
shheeeshh! first this Scientist says:
"...unexpected and complex climate feedback".

He highlighted that atmospheric impacts on the climate were "inordinately complicated" and it "...was not unusual for unexpected consequences to be revealed"

But then maintains the dogma:
"...essential for carbon emissions to be slashed in the same way that CFCs – the ozone-depleting substances in aerosols – were cut under the 1987 Montreal Protocol."

Um... wait... the system is really complex and it's not unusual to see unexpected results but we recomend this course of action anyway. c'mon... is the general public really that stupid.

Also note - the ozone thing may not have been entirely our fault either!
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/2...ic-ozone-hole/


I believe in climate change. yessir I strongly believe the climate will change. We'd better learn to adapt.
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Last edited by Grejen; Jan 27, 2010 at 02:47 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old Jan 26, 2010, 01:51 PM
Cat Rack
MtnGoat's Avatar
Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
1,478 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricflyer6 View Post
what is so wrong with reducing emissions and c02 levels.Is lowering our carbon footprint such a horrible thing to do?.
because of the cost and the loss of liberty.
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