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Old Nov 19, 2010, 06:42 PM
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Rsmith's Avatar
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined May 2002
555 Posts
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Originally Posted by Robert Youens View Post
Hey Pilots,

Here is another video. Sorry the lens was dirty and didn't focus too well.

Robert
Robert,
I believe your camera is set on 'Auto Focus'. Common mistake taking video of small far away moving objects. Most times when your frame is low enough to include the flyers and the start line, the camera focuses in on that. When you raise the frame to the sky it cannot find an object to focus on so it starts hunting.

If you can get into your camera menu and turn auto focus OFF or set it to Manual it will work much better. In manual, just set the focus for 'infinity' and leave it there. Everything at a distance will be in focus.


Randy
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Old Nov 19, 2010, 07:35 PM
Hovering my 85" Katana
Robert Youens's Avatar
Austin, Texas
Joined Mar 2006
924 Posts
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Last edited by Robert Youens; Nov 25, 2010 at 12:38 AM.
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Old Nov 21, 2010, 03:18 PM
Hovering my 85" Katana
Robert Youens's Avatar
Austin, Texas
Joined Mar 2006
924 Posts
EF1 Power System Discussion

Pilots,

Pilots, I just started a new power system discussion thread in "High Performance" for Electric Formula 1. Please respond and comment to the following discussion on that thread. Here is the challenge.

I have tried several setups on an unmodified E-Flight LR-1A Pogo. Running this plane on a 400' course for 10 laps is taking around 80 seconds with average flight skills. With a battery limit of 4 cell and maximum 325 gram, the limit seems to be the power delivered by the battery. For this challenge you are limited to a 8" diameter prop of any pitch. You are also limited to an out runner motor. The all up weight of the aircraft has to remain between 3.25 lbs and 3.5 lbs.

What is not limited is motor brand, size, or KV. There is no limit on ESC.

I have found it possible to increase ultimate speed, but at the cost of draining the battery before the required time to complete the 10 lap 400' course. So the goal is definitely not ultimate speed, but fastest time around the course. I have tried a range of batteries from 2500 mah to 3000 mah with a range of C ratings.

What seems to be the limiting factor is watt limiting associated with a 325 gram battery. The other limiting factor seem to the relatively draggy E-Flight Pogo. Getting it to go much faster than 110 mph on course seems to require a high exponential increase in power with a minimal increase in speed that quickly draws down the battery and reduces overall performance around the 10 lap 400' course.

To be up front with you I have run this challenge past some of the most qualified rc pilots, rc motors design engineers and theoretical physicist.

It seems that regardless of KV, prop pitch, motor size, motor brand, or ESC a statistically evaluate-able performance difference over the prescribe course with prescribe limitations is unlikely. It seems by limiting the prop diameter to 8" and the battery to 325 grams on a factory E-Flight LR-1A you can reach performance parity with commonly available, inexpensive power system components. Please prove me wrong.

Please respond on the Electric Formula 1 Power System Performance Thread in High Performance.

Thanks,

Robert Youens
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Old Nov 22, 2010, 09:56 AM
DHG
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United States, CO, Arvada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Youens View Post
What seems to be the limiting factor is watt limiting associated with a 325 gram battery. The other limiting factor seem to the relatively draggy E-Flight Pogo. Getting it to go much faster than 110 mph on course seems to require a high exponential increase in power with a minimal increase in speed that quickly draws down the battery and reduces overall performance around the 10 lap 400' course.

To be up front with you I have run this challenge past some of the most qualified rc pilots, rc motors design engineers and theoretical physicist.

It seems that regardless of KV, prop pitch, motor size, motor brand, or ESC a statistically evaluate-able performance difference over the prescribe course with prescribe limitations is unlikely. It seems by limiting the prop diameter to 8" and the battery to 325 grams on a factory E-Flight LR-1A you can reach performance parity with commonly available, inexpensive power system components.
Robert,

Thanks for confirming that the rule-writers have succeeded in doing EXACTLY what they set out to do! FWIW, the same holds true in Formula 1 Sport (AMA event no. 421, 1/4-scale F1s using .90 cu. in. glow engines). Unfortunately, F1 Sport seems not to have attracted the level of interest that EF-1 is now attracting. C'est la vie. Let's go with whatever works.

The absolutely essential, historically elusive element is guaranteeing enough parity in speed so that everyone is on the same lap, regardless of what design they choose or how expensive a powerplant they put on it. If the EF-1 formula has managed to achieve that, it will be the best formula ever.

Cheers,

Duane
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Old Nov 22, 2010, 01:20 PM
I Just Want to Hover!
Bill Martins's Avatar
United States, OR, Eugene
Joined Jun 2004
703 Posts
Beautiful Shoestring!

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Originally Posted by dkane View Post
I had to post a couple of pictures just because. The pictures were taken by Sean Dunnavant at the recent Q-40 Champ race in PHX. We had a blast with the EF1's and the pictures show how gifted Sean is at taking pictures.

DK
Dan,

Is it possible to get a PDF plan of the Shoestring? I read that it is not available in a kit. I would like to scratch build one. Great looking plane.

I know the Doddger is a slimer, I just wanted to show my ability to build.

Cheers,

Bill
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Last edited by Bill Martins; Nov 22, 2010 at 01:23 PM. Reason: add slimer line
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Old Nov 22, 2010, 03:08 PM
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USA
Joined Jul 2002
757 Posts
Bill,

Nice picts of your work. I am sure you could handle the shoestring if it was available. Unfortunately, I never created a set of plans. I created raw cut sheets of the parts and thats it. My plate is pretty full at the moment, so I have no intention to complete them as of yet. Jerry and I have been working pretty hard at getting someone to produce kits. Stay tuned there may be someone releasing kits in a month or two. (it won't be my shoestring, but it will be a shoulder wing EF1).

Sorry that it wasn't the news you were looking for, but that is the best I can offer right now.

DK
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Old Nov 22, 2010, 03:14 PM
I Just Want to Hover!
Bill Martins's Avatar
United States, OR, Eugene
Joined Jun 2004
703 Posts
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Originally Posted by dkane View Post
Bill,

Nice picts of your work. I am sure you could handle the shoestring if it was available. Unfortunately, I never created a set of plans. I created raw cut sheets of the parts and thats it. My plate is pretty full at the moment, so I have no intention to complete them as of yet. Jerry and I have been working pretty hard at getting someone to produce kits. Stay tuned there may be someone releasing kits in a month or two. (it won't be my shoestring, but it will be a shoulder wing EF1).

Sorry that it wasn't the news you were looking for, but that is the best I can offer right now.

DK
Thanks Dan for the quick reply.

I'll see if I can find some 3 views. I really like what you did with the airframe.

Bill
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Old Nov 22, 2010, 05:41 PM
I Just Want to Hover!
Bill Martins's Avatar
United States, OR, Eugene
Joined Jun 2004
703 Posts
Ray Cote Shoestring

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkane View Post
Bill,

Nice picts of your work. I am sure you could handle the shoestring if it was available. Unfortunately, I never created a set of plans. I created raw cut sheets of the parts and thats it. My plate is pretty full at the moment, so I have no intention to complete them as of yet. Jerry and I have been working pretty hard at getting someone to produce kits. Stay tuned there may be someone releasing kits in a month or two. (it won't be my shoestring, but it will be a shoulder wing EF1).

Sorry that it wasn't the news you were looking for, but that is the best I can offer right now.

DK
Dan,

I downloaded and printed the Little Toni plans and parts PDF's at a local Lazerquick a few days ago. Very nice.

Question, if I were to follow a 3 view I found of the Ray Cote Shoestring, would it be advisable to use the wing templates (root and tip) from the Toni? I would adjust for the width of the fuse. I was planning to scratch build it anyway and will size it up to 400 sq in. for local Club racing.

I will try not to bug you for a while. I'm exited about this plane.

Cheers,

Bill
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Old Nov 22, 2010, 08:27 PM
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dkane's Avatar
USA
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757 Posts
Bill, you are very safe with the templates from the toni and the same moments. Have at it and post your progress.

DK
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Old Nov 22, 2010, 09:06 PM
I Just Want to Hover!
Bill Martins's Avatar
United States, OR, Eugene
Joined Jun 2004
703 Posts
Proud Bird 3 View

Hi All,

I've been looking on the net and can't seem to find a 3 view of a RC Proud Bird Race Plane.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers,

Bill
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Old Nov 22, 2010, 09:12 PM
I Just Want to Hover!
Bill Martins's Avatar
United States, OR, Eugene
Joined Jun 2004
703 Posts
Shoestring

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkane View Post
Bill, you are very safe with the templates from the toni and the same moments. Have at it and post your progress.

DK
Thanks Dan

Hope to start in a couple of days.
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Old Nov 23, 2010, 11:06 PM
Caution:Makes sharp left turns
Troy's Avatar
United States, CA, Lake Forest
Joined Feb 1999
6,007 Posts
While you guys are out racing (jealous) I am finally back on to working on my Midget Mustang. I am about halfway through the wing. Still a few major details to finish (hinging ailerons, glassing center, gear reinforcement).

The next big hurdle is cutting out the tail feathers and starting to cover.
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Old Nov 24, 2010, 01:09 AM
I Just Want to Hover!
Bill Martins's Avatar
United States, OR, Eugene
Joined Jun 2004
703 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Martins View Post
Hi All,

I've been looking on the net and can't seem to find a 3 view of a RC Proud Bird Race Plane.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers,

Bill
Mr. Kite was able to help me with a 3 view and photos.

Thank you Mr. Kite.
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Old Nov 25, 2010, 01:41 PM
I Just Want to Hover!
Bill Martins's Avatar
United States, OR, Eugene
Joined Jun 2004
703 Posts
Aileron technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy View Post
While you guys are out racing (jealous) I am finally back on to working on my Midget Mustang. I am about halfway through the wing. Still a few major details to finish (hinging ailerons, glassing center, gear reinforcement).

The next big hurdle is cutting out the tail feathers and starting to cover.
Troy,

Great work! Wing looks good. Nice job on the wing tips.

Say would you mind taking a couple of pics of your hinging technique or an explanation. I am trying to figure out a way to have a mono-kote type hinge and rods from the center of the wing. I have some red nyrod, but not to keen on using it as it tends to change length with temperature changes. The ailerons are about 8 inches from the center of the wing.

I've buried 2 servos in the wing previously with success with a direct link to the control horns, would like to go with one servo.

Appreciate your time and effort.

Cheers,

Bill
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Old Nov 25, 2010, 01:57 PM
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Rsmith's Avatar
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined May 2002
555 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Martins View Post
Dan,

Question, if I were to follow a 3 view I found of the Ray Cote Shoestring, would it be advisable to use the wing templates (root and tip) from the Toni? I would adjust for the width of the fuse. I was planning to scratch build it anyway
Bill,
My father and I have the same love for the Shoestring and want to scratch build a Shoestring for E-F1. Can you tell me where to find the three view of the Ray Cote Shoestring ? He wants to do something similar to what you are doing.

Can you post the link to the three views or send me a message to my email at pylon.guy@shaw.ca

Thanks,

Randy Smith
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