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Old Dec 09, 2011, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JetMech2002 View Post
If you mod the rudder and wing tips it will be a shoestring. The Wagner is a Shoestring with modified wingtips and rudder. It is merely a shape change.
Since all of the above are balsa pieces, you can make it an actual shoestring.

Here ya go;
Just a quick note to anyone changing a current design. By the rule it is no longer approved for use. If you decide to modify a design you will need to submit your changes for approval.

FYI a Wagner solution is not the same airplane as a shoestring. It may have started there but it didn't end up there. I not trying to spoil anyone's fun. Just beware of the rules.

Dan
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Alien_Tech View Post
Anyone catch this headline today?

Small Plane Lands On Roof, FBI Called In
Plane Lands On Roof Of Federal Building



Take a look at the video, any EF1 pilots want to cop to this? Sure looks like a Pogo to me!

Footage about 45 seconds in: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news...37/detail.html
Sure does look like a pogo.

DK
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 08:54 AM
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Levittown,PA
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Thanks Tom, Let me know what color ultracote you used, Beautiful Job on all three planes, Great work!! Jack
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 03:53 PM
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United States, MO, Sedalia
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Originally Posted by dkane View Post
FYI a Wagner solution is not the same airplane as a shoestring. It may have started there but it didn't end up there. I not trying to spoil anyone's fun. Just beware of the rules.
Dan
Agreed in the model forms available, but the fuselage in the real Formula one air racing plane is in fact a Shoestring on the Wagner Solution #44. I did not mean to steer anyone in the wrong direction. Always make sure you are within the rules by contacting DKANE.

This is a snipit from the 2005 NAR site

"participants must use the same engine, a Continental O-200 with 100 HP. That is the same engine installed in the popular Cessna 150. The airplanes of the Formula One Class -with this engine and fixed propeller - reach a maximum speed that doubles the speed of the Cessna 150. There are further regulations for the surface of the wings (66 square feet) and on the empty weight (min. 500 pounds).

The Formula One Class is dominated by two types of aircraft: the Cassutt and the Shoestring Racer. Each team makes their own modifications, according to the regulations described above. This year 24 participants raced in the F-1 Class."

This whole class is a much a history lesson for me as it is a model Aircraft venue.


In the history of Formula one/Midget air racing there is one aircraft that reigns supreme as the most famous of all: SHOESTRING. No other design has won the Championship as many times as has this thoroughbred that began life in 1949 when it was created and built by Vincent Ast of California. Throughout time it has been admired by thousands of racing fans and was flown by racing immortals Bob Downey, John Paul Jones, and Ray Cote, just to name a few. Originally, race speeds of 170 -180 mph gave way to 200, 220, 240, and even 250 mph speeds as this design remained a champion. This led to a fine pedigree as it was modified, developed, and evolved through decades of racing.

Here is some more history on the Shoestring;

Kreimendahl Shoestring Goodyear Racer

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Old Dec 09, 2011, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JetMech2002 View Post
Agreed in the model forms available, but the fuselage in the real Formula one air racing plane is in fact a Shoestring on the Wagner Solution #44. I did not mean to steer anyone in the wrong direction. Always make sure you are within the rules by contacting DKANE.
My point was just be cautious of the changes you make. The "GREEN" shoestring has completely different tail feathers and wing design. To change the "Solution" would require these changes and at that point it is not a "Solution" any more, it has become a "Shoestring".

The wing area is one concern as well as the horizontal stab area. If one was to modify Archie's kit, they may not be legal.

I say kit bash all you want, just take a little extra care too make sure you are within the rules.

DK
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 04:51 PM
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United States, CA, Palmdale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkane View Post
My point was just be cautious of the changes you make. The "GREEN" shoestring has completely different tail feathers and wing design. To change the "Solution" would require these changes and at that point it is not a "Solution" any more, it has become a "Shoestring".

The wing area is one concern as well as the horizontal stab area. If one was to modify Archie's kit, they may not be legal.

I say kit bash all you want, just take a little extra care too make sure you are within the rules.

DK
And re-submit it for approval......
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 02:35 PM
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subscribe..... New excited future e-pylon racer!

Getting my popcorn and going to read this whole thread.

Kev
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 05:39 PM
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United States, WA, Olympia
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What color green??

Jackspt28, the closest green color to the one I am using is the Apple Green Ultracote from Hangar 9(Horizon Hobby). Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Been moving last couple weeks, and just now getting shop together.

Tom Jr.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 09:10 AM
Gary James
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Originally Posted by JetMech2002 View Post
Agreed in the model forms available, but the fuselage in the real Formula one air racing plane is in fact a Shoestring on the Wagner Solution #44
Almost correct, but not quite. I have crewed #44 at Reno when it was owned by Ray Cote. Because Judy Wagner was a very tall woman, the fuselage of her #44 is stretched in length about a foot. The design and layout of the fuselage of #44 was identical to the standard Shoestring but it was lengthened a bit. #2 is also a psudo-Shoestring, as it was to be Judy Wagner's "new mount" but she died in the crash of her AeroStar before the airplane was completed.

Also, the fuselage of #44 was COMPLETELY sheeted in mahogany aircraft plywood forming a smooth "shell" The plans-built Shoestrings use a stringer and fabric covering.

The airplane has been EXTENSIVELY modified since I crewed it, new wing, horizontal tail, vertical tail, cowling, etc., etc. I suspect that the only thing on it that hasn't been changed is the steel truss underneath.

BTW: My EF-1 Shoestring has arrived at the hobby shop. I've got a set of the Circus Circus decals ready to go! FUN!
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 12:11 PM
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Great info and History! Thank you!
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 08:44 AM
Gary James
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For your amusement, I remembered another unique thing about #44 when Judy Wagner had it. It used a custom oil tank that was integrated into the cowling, but unfortunately, there was no provision for a drain. Imagine that! It was necessary to use a "turkey baster" or large syringe to suck out the oil through the filler port. The amount of "gunk" in the bottom of the tank was amazing and most likely caused engine problems. Cote put in a flush drain plug.

#2 was also built with a shell over the steel tube truss, but the shell was composite instead of plywood. #2 was originally yellow in color and had a standard wooden Shoestring wing, but I don't remember if it ever raced with that one before the wing was replaced with a composite wing.
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 06:13 PM
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United States, FL, Sebastian
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Newly approved EF-1 Design Miss Cosmic Wind

Hey guys here is a photo of my recently approved EF1 design. It is a Miss Cosmic Wind,which I hope to offer as a short kit very soon. A great deal of thanks is owed to Jerry Small for his rapid turnaround on the plans approval as well as moral support and encouragement in this program. The plans were approved in early November and here we are with a prototype framed up already. Being a former nitro formula one driver, this is an appealing event and I hope it is embraced and promoted around the country. We all owe both Jerry and Dan Kane a great deal of appreciation for their efforts in the development and promotion of this new class.Your feedback will be greatly appreciated in that if enough interest is generated , I will pursue getting it produced as an ARF or ARC or both.Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

Jeff Kerlo

P.S. Two new designs on the drawing board to be turned in soon for approval!!!
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 10:58 PM
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Isn't the cosmic wind and the Lil Toni the same??? and i thought they were low wing airplanes.
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 10:59 PM
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Ok I didn't read the P.S.

What are the mid wing designs??
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 11:10 PM
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A good question would be "How much would the arf be? " hard to beat 150.00 or even match it

[QUOTE=canardjeff;20199631]Hey guys here is a photo of my recently approved EF1 design. It is a Miss Cosmic Wind,which I hope to offer as a short kit very soon. A great deal of thanks is owed to Jerry Small for his rapid turnaround on the plans approval as well as moral support and encouragement in this program. The plans were approved in early November and here we are with a prototype framed up already. Being a former nitro formula one driver, this is an appealing event and I hope it is embraced and promoted around the country. We all owe both Jerry and Dan Kane a great deal of appreciation for their efforts in the development and promotion of this new class.Your feedback will be greatly appreciated in that if enough interest is generated , I will pursue getting it produced as an ARF or ARC or both.Let me know your thoughts. Thanks

Jeff Kerlo

P.S. Two new designs on the drawing board to be turned in soon for approval!!![/QUOTE]
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