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Old Jan 18, 2010, 11:59 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
Joined Mar 2000
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Discussion
1/8 Mig 21 from plan

Check my blog for details ,I will post building progress on this tread later.
Power: Tamjet 100 10-11 cells
Spring air retract
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=876
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Old Jan 18, 2010, 12:31 PM
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WOW! That is challenging project!
Subscribed.
Janusz
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Old Jan 18, 2010, 02:43 PM
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Hey arracheur de patate that's pretty impressive

A very nice project, and for once someting different from those endless boring "me too"'s A-4's and F-16's

Where'r you'r going to put your batts? I guess you have plenty of space around the duct?

A bientot, hwh
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Old Jan 18, 2010, 03:15 PM
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Indeed, a nice project! Please do keep us updated.

I investigated Carp CA, interesting area. Pet those dogs for me, I lost my 18 year old wonderful mixed breed recently.
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Old Jan 18, 2010, 04:43 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
"I investigated Carp CA, interesting area. Pet those dogs for me, I lost my 18 year old wonderful mixed breed recently
Sorry for you Dog, we also missed our 16 1/2 Golden "Brie" But 18 this is a very good life !!
Not much room for the cells , I have choice around duct or the long chin behind cockpit . I will glass the hole fuselage with the wing and I will cut the hatches: Cells, fan, retract. The front wheel is the headache. Not much clearance there for the wheel.
Anyway... back to the basement
J-C
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Old Jan 18, 2010, 04:50 PM
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... as you probably know, Airworld makes a large turbine MiG-21. Which might give you some inspiration on where to place what how

http://airworld-usa.com/forum/index.php?topic=16.0

Balsa planking ... therapeutic - I like that
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Old Jan 19, 2010, 09:56 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Rudder building free style method + intake ready for glass cloth.
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 04:43 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Since last post I struggle to build the !!!@#@@! rudder I was not happy with the result , finally I cut the hole thing and I cut a foam core Next will be the vacuum bag proceed with "gorilla" glue and 1/16 balsa. Foam is definitively easy to work with.
I "pained "the fuselage with dry wall filler. Next will be a messy and long sanding job.
A+
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 04:59 PM
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Looks great! Great subject choice, and a honest scratch built project to boot
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:54 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
Joined Mar 2000
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After struggling with other project I spent some time with the Mig today.
I finish the vertical stab ,cut foam and vacu-form balsa with gorilla glue . I carve some balsa for the top....
I add the exhaust cone in foam.…
AND started the stab , very light balsa build . Each stab will be control by a Hitec digital wing servo. Not much room for that but will be a solid and direct control on elevator . Unfortunately will be not scale all moving tail but " c'est la vie"
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Old Feb 16, 2010, 02:48 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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The wings are done , now I have to install ailerons , rudder and 2 servos for elevator.
Next is glassing the wing and fuse together, glue rudder in place and stab.
Sorry I don't go deeper in the building maybe later when I need more advice
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Old Feb 25, 2010, 06:45 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Wing glued to the fuselage .I cover the entire fuse with 1 oz fibre cloth and stab and rudder with .75 oz lot of work still ahead
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Old Feb 25, 2010, 07:49 PM
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J-C,
What a great project, I've been watching for all your updates. Good luck!
-Mike
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 07:50 PM
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I love it JC ... keep posting.

How do you make sure the wings will stay on ... I can't see what they had in mind.

I have seen the plan on ebay, maybe I'll get it too if I can see how yours progresses
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 10:26 PM
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Great work J-C,

The Mig is a challenging build because of the intake for a scratch. I watched my brother Greg really engineer some great ideas in his but the intake got him. I think you’re right on with your build. I meet you at E-jets banquet and enjoyed the good round table talks and discussing Greg’s intake dilemma. Here is the link to his build.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1124612
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 11:14 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Hello Herb, the wings are permanently attach to the fuselage, not a big problem for transport , only 3 ' feet wingspan .[ fit in my Prius)
The intake was easy to build and like the BZ model I will keep the shock-wave cone small: http://www.rcline.tv/video/1510/mig-...-grenchen-2009.
For the main I resolve the retract fitting , wheels will just clear the fan( TJ 100) The nose gear it's a different challenge , maybe I will use an electric retract and rotate the wheel @ 90 d. ( for this one I will improvise).
I already glassed the underside , reenforce the top with carbon fibre , finished the rudder and elevator. For elevator control I bury two servos inside stab for precise control. So far I'm not sure about flaps?
I think this plan first was for U control !!!?? Then somebody put a Kress fan in with DF motor ...very similar to the VMar prop plane.
Next September I will order one composite model from BZ 680 EURO+ $150 shipping to Canada for a 120 mm fan.
I always love Mig 21
Yes, E-Jets was fantastic , Lmeano I follow your thread and I was inspired buy our build, congratulation.
Maybe my Mig will make E-jet 2010 if is not recycled in toothpick
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Old Feb 28, 2010, 10:03 AM
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Claude, this is a great looking build.
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Old Feb 28, 2010, 01:00 PM
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JC, my question was what keeps the wings in place, is there a former that goes all around the duct, with spar stubs left and right? I could not tell from the pictures.

I agree a removable wing is not needed on this one ... yes the BZM one looks good.
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Old Feb 28, 2010, 01:38 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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yes Herb exactely, it's 2 formers who are glued inside the wing with PU . Normally on the plan 1/8 balsa are used for spar , I used mapple instead + I use carbon (1.4 oz) on the wing surface where the landing gear can damage the top ...
So far the plane is very light 2.7 lb .I still have the top fuselage to glass.
If I'm carefull the total weight should be around 10 lb
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Old Mar 02, 2010, 11:29 AM
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JC take plenty of pictures as I'm very interested in your build (but very short on build time at the moment) .

I might get the plan at some point and give it a try, if the MiG-21 holds up as a lightweight hi perf airframe.
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Old Mar 03, 2010, 10:45 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Here, the control for stab and rudder are done. I use 1/64 ply for cover to keep simple and use a Matchbox to adjust 5125 Hitec for elevator , metal gear Hitec HS82 for rudder
This morning glassed the top fuselage , not easy to do with one piece of 1 once cloth.
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Old Mar 03, 2010, 12:06 PM
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That is definitely the best way to do the elevator servos.

Clean setup with short tight linkages, that's what I have in my F-86 Sabre too, with a servo box to do the individual trim adjustments.
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Old Mar 09, 2010, 01:07 PM
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I ordered the plans ... we shall see
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Old Mar 11, 2010, 12:16 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Added the fin last night, patched more spots
Next , elevator and first layer of primmer filler and more sanding....
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Old Mar 11, 2010, 01:47 PM
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It will look very nice when you start spraying the primer. Make sure the pink foam is protected though, or it will eat through.

I have the e-flite version of those retracts, there are some small differences with the ones you have. They are rated at 4.5lbs max? so you need to grease the landings above that
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Old Mar 11, 2010, 02:48 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Hello Herb,
I cover all the foam with glass . I will not use those electric retracts.
I will use : http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=7996.
I have to modify the length , very well made for the price.
The Tam Jet will be better.
So far so good I'm happy with the build , I'm not the "best" scratch builder but I have fun....As you said the grey will made the difference....
The final colour will be silver with Finish ( Finlande)marking .
George Leu explain how to play with different grey and silver colour to have a very good effect on the model . I apply is method on my Het 104 ( check my blog).
A bientot.
J-C
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Old Mar 11, 2010, 03:08 PM
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Nice, I see ...

Silver finishes are great but can give some slight visibility issues, esp. straight from the back eg. pulling up on a fast pass.

.
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Old Mar 14, 2010, 02:04 PM
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Got my plans Friday ... very nicely made

Did you cut out the formers yourself from the plans or ?
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Old Mar 14, 2010, 02:24 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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I'm not alone


No somebody cut them for me , who made lots of mistake interpreting the plan.
If I will start from scratch I will cut everything myself .
Today and last night I install the ailerons control and main retracts( 3 children's and my wife went 10 day in Mexico ) I 'm keeping the fort and take care of the fury friends and my eldest son.. Now I will advance even more, the temperature next week look good (14 C+) for painting the model and start flying F 16...and other goodie.
Bonne chance with the build Herb.
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Old Mar 15, 2010, 11:12 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Added one stab with Hysol glue and some " choucroute: epoxy with fiber"
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Old Mar 15, 2010, 11:31 AM
D.G.B.
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I see you are elevators instead of full flying tailevators.Any reason for this?My bz kit has elevators too.But I will convert to taileveators.
KOMET44
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Old Mar 15, 2010, 03:28 PM
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JC, what did you do about the canopy ? Plug ?

Mine also will have the JePe F-16 type taileron setup, fixed tail surfaces with hinged elevators, much safer and better imo on these kinds of builds

Given the overall airframe size ailerons and/or flaps are very doable too.
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Old Mar 15, 2010, 04:06 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
I see you are elevators instead of full flying tailevators.Any reason for this?My bz kit has elevators too.But I will convert to taileveators.
KOMET44
Was only for simplicity and I find the control rod are always to far from the elevator.
Definitively the full stab look more scale . BtW I'm planning to order the BZ Mig soon ( euro is weak), let us know your progress, I will be very interested.
Herb , I will make a balsa plug and vacuum form a canopy myself.
The canopy is small and you only need a small box.
Tonight a glue the next stab and will shoot primer /filler tomorrow.
The ailerons are not scale , but for landing I will drop them by few degree ( like a glider) and come for landing with very high alpha...hopefully
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Old Mar 15, 2010, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bidule View Post
... I will make a balsa plug and vacuum form a canopy myself. The canopy is small and you only need a small box.
...

Sounds good JC ... make 2
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Old Mar 15, 2010, 07:46 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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LOL ....I will....
I will try with a soda bottle ..First the plug
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Old Mar 16, 2010, 08:18 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Back upstairs, ready for filler primmer Weight so far is 3.8 pounds with 5 servos, I hope the model will be under 11 pounds
When the plane drying I will start making the canopy plug and all the "scale fairing"
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Old Mar 16, 2010, 03:04 PM
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Nice ... starts to look like a MiG-21 ...

Btw I saw one fly back in the early 80's, Yugoslav one over the Adriatic - Fast and low, what a menacing beast, loudest thing I ever heard.
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Old Mar 16, 2010, 07:28 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Yes , thank you Herb I was on you blog and I'm sure your Mig will be with a nicer finish You are a very very good modeller.
I'm made a mistake : I used 1/16 balsa instead of 3/32 for the wing , I have some bumps and I know I can't fix that....
In 1975 I worked for a Swiss company in Angola and i was lucky to see LOTS of action : Mig 21 and Mig 23 No I was not a mercenary.
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Old Mar 18, 2010, 01:03 PM
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It looks pretty good to me ... some more lightweight filler should make it pretty smooth.

Interestingly enough I read that on the large Airworld MiG-21 they even replicated poor russian workmanship, ie. misaligned rivets and crooked hatches

The big headache for me in these kind of scale projects is where to put your batts so that it stays a flyable (ie easily servicable) model ... will be watching how you solve that little problem.

With the icdf version it seems they split the tank in two, one extra tank behind the cockpit.
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Old Mar 18, 2010, 01:27 PM
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A hatch on top aft of the cockpit would be a good idea, there's some room on top of the duct for batteries I think. I have the same plan and that was where I planned to put Lipos. And then a hatch at the bottom right at the wing trailing edge for access to the fan unit.
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Old Mar 18, 2010, 01:30 PM
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I am considering either the Russian aerobatic team scheme, or one of the others below,

.
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Old Mar 18, 2010, 01:42 PM
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That second Russian one was really cool, do you have any more pics of it?
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Old Mar 18, 2010, 01:49 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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I put lot of weight in the back , servos , fan etc.. The plan is to fit the cells 3 4 cells 5000 mah XPS in line after the cockpit.. The Cg is a guess 25-30% from the leading edge.
I change my mind with retract and I will use Behotec C21 for main and try the electric for the nose.
For scale I keep simple, I carved from contest balsa all the bumps and vents, few layers of dope and primer .
The plug for the canopy is done ,I will use 1/64 ply for detailing the windows.
Mine will be the Romanian one:
Herb check this nice Video:
MiG-21 LanceR Tribute (RoAF) (3 min 28 sec)

I have to said ; the Airworld is gorgeous sometime dark side is goooood!
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Old Mar 19, 2010, 11:15 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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I was not happy with the foam intake , to fragile , was cover with 1 once fibreglass but not ding resistant Finally I cut and made a balsa ring with all the left over of balsa sheeting , epoxies in place and more sanding tonight.
Herb, I moved the retract to W3 my headache went away: the wheels have enough room and just made a small cut in the fuselage. Sorry my English falling apart....
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Old Mar 19, 2010, 01:51 PM
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Nice pics JC And yes that video is cool too thanks.

I also thought that a balsa intake would be much better, especially given that the original has a very sharp inlet.

The retract setup looks good ... in the original those massive wheels rotate when they retract ... in the model the only sensible way is to move them outboard a bit as you did.

Did you have a problem with the HC retracts? I would like to know. I am thinking Behotec, Springairs or Jet-1A.

Angier, here's are a couple more pics of the blue MiG-21, suprisingly I could not find a single picture of the read aerobatic one, real or model ...

My plans incidentally refer to the MiG-21 MF (Fishbed J) - see below.

.
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 04:57 AM
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Thanks for the photos Herb, I really liked that scheme.

As for the main wheels, they do a strange rotation on the fullsize, as they end up vertically on either side of the inlet duct on the full size when retracted, so the point of rotation must be on the axle end of the leg and not the whole leg assembly I think. Not easy to replicate on a model, and the legs also retract 45 degrees forward as well so doing it scale like on a model is a real pain.
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 09:16 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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The whell rotated 87 degree inward . The linkage system is called : Parallelogram"
As you said no company make the model with this complex linkage...I'm sure a nut somewhere is trying
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Old Mar 21, 2010, 01:38 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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This morning I cut the hatch for fan, and after hour's sanding the intake start looking OK.. very solid
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Old Mar 21, 2010, 05:53 PM
Da' Cajun
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Lookin' good!

I've been following this build from day 1. I've got a set of MiG-21 plans myself (for a little smaller plane) and plan to start on it soon.

Keep the pics coming, it's like an instruction manual for me.


Julian
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Old Mar 21, 2010, 07:18 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Cannot resist I had to check whit the fan!!
I smash the former before cockpit , was easy
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Old Mar 22, 2010, 02:27 PM
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Looks good JC ...

Fitting the batteries in there might be easier with a good sized hatch ... fans & motors almost never quit.

You could glue in the motor hatch after you are done (for structural strenght), leaving marks on where to cut in case of need.
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Old Mar 22, 2010, 05:41 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Actually the hatch is not so big and fit perfectly ( cheap camera). I will strength the fuse with carbon tow and made a tray for the cell, Off course CG will tell me what to do. I still have to fit the front retract and made a copy of the fuse to made strong nose doors ( carbon), crazy how much time you spent on a scratch build model!!! Fun but I understand why ARF are so in demand
BTW: I'm a little bit distracted : iI jut bought a BVM F 86 for a 100 mm fan, it's a kit but the surface are already covered , the plane come with TJ retract but I will order the BVM one .
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Old Mar 22, 2010, 08:38 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015 , May 28-31
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Looking good JC.
What thickness balsa did you plank/sheet the fuselage with?
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Old Mar 22, 2010, 09:56 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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Thank Kevin, 1/8 contest balsa.
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Old Mar 24, 2010, 02:33 PM
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I suppose thicker balsa is a bit easier to sand, in the sense that some uneveness in the resulting balsa surface can be smoothed out more easily, without the danger of sanding through the planking.

I am actually thinking of using a combination of methods, including the ammonia technique for softening and conforming balsa sheets.

Eventually I got most of my formers cut out, JC you are still way ahead of me , the fan seems a good match for the airframe, the Neu 1521 motor is on its way.

I have been thinking of making the fuselage out of two halves (L & R) which would allow me to finish it from the inside as well, making it a bit stronger and lighter. At the same time installing some components might be easier that way ....

.
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Old Mar 24, 2010, 04:16 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Carp, Ontario, Canada
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I'm glad you are advancing Herb. I cut the opening for the front gear and there is room for the gear and the servo for the cable. With this kind of project, you have to be open to flexible thinking so this time, I will try Tam jet retract for the three wheels. They are compact and solid. The front wheels will dig in the duct a little bit, but that should not be a problem.

Two half-fuselages are a better idea than one, you are correct. I was even thinking of making the fuselage all in foam with a former in between and cover it with light glass or brown paper...It was a first time for me to do planking but I enjoyed it and learned alot.

Anyway, I will post more pictures on my progress later.....
My family just came back from Mexico and this will slow down the building Happy to see them, but frankly, I enjoyed my scratch-build Holiday more than they know!!!! Luckily, they allow me many, many hours of fun and frustration down in my workshop to build to my heart's content.
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Old Mar 25, 2010, 12:24 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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I install the front retract .I made a f 4 former and fit two maple support for the retract , Glue overnight maple supports . Now they are hold by 3 former ( f4,f4 B and mine extra) very solid and I ad more 1 once carbon cloth under ....
For the wheel I will make a small indent in the intake tube.. Easter coming soon I will have plenty of mould to choose.
Herb what fan you are using? Nice work cutting the former.
+ a pic of my new baby...This one is for next winter and a BVM fan
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Old Mar 26, 2010, 04:08 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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The main retract with wheels is working . The maximum length is 6 inch ( with 2 inch 1/4 ) from W3. I had to dig a bit in the fan rail . I use Behotec strut ( I have to cut them).
The valve is buried @ the bottom of the fuse , the RX will be near this location and the RX battery will be @ the front
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Old Mar 29, 2010, 01:34 PM
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Looks nice JC, haven't done anything on mine (too busy with work & vacations)

Tell me about the landing gear choice, what happened with the HC one? I will probably order Springairs very soon, it takes a while to get them.
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Old Mar 29, 2010, 04:55 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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I'm using Tam Jet retracts like for the 1/12 f 16. The main retract are fitted and work very well , the nose it's a different story because it's so short . I try to modify X flight retract strut , but finally I will do some soldering and make "house made" with brass tube.
For this MIG 21 : Tam Jet or Behotec C21 are the best because they are very sturdy and not to "tick" .
Soon I will post a picture when is on is wheels...
So far so good
J-C
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Old Mar 29, 2010, 06:02 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Here a pic on is wheels . The front still need trimming. ~millimetres .
Next steering servo and closing the front and maybe doors
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Old Mar 30, 2010, 12:56 PM
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Starts to look like a MiG-21 ...

I see why you need such a small nosewheel - it needs to fully retract into the fuse.
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Old Mar 30, 2010, 01:33 PM
smug in granny panties
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nice!!

Barry
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Old Mar 30, 2010, 02:16 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Thanks Barry,
For our field I need a bigger wheel, our paved runway is not very long...
I will have a small bump on the doors.
No doors for the maiden.
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 12:14 AM
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JC regarde:

[This is the Airworld MiG-21 I believe ... Ther model actually seems to have some aerobatic potential]

Arvika 2009 - Gränsträffen - Tom Storvik MIG-21 (8 min 10 sec)
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 06:32 AM
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Yes that's the Airworld Mig-21, it's a really nice jet and Tom is a good pilot as well, if I remember correctly he had a 16kg turbine in it and did not use full throttle too much. I was at that meet but I think this was shot early on friday before we arrived (580km drive for me).
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 06:48 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Thank Herb,
Fantastic pilot , I was like the little kid in the video with lots of : WHOAAA .
RETRACT are working perfectly in my E- Mig and steering cables are done.

Today I will close the front and prepare the magnets for the hatch and tray for battery, and do so more sanding on the canopy plug , not happy with the symmetry.
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 01:39 PM
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Nice JC ... but don't use magnets for the hatch ...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=606

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=608
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 01:47 PM
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I think the fan needs to be moved back a bit ? What did you do on yours?

The plans call for some contraption called a Kress something or other, with a K&B not sure what that is

Anyhow, the heavy complete icdf unit + tank behind it sit right on the CG, almost. Then there's an extra aux. tank right before that.

But with the EDF version we need to pack a ton of batts to break the sound barrier, so they have to go on or ahead of the CG (if the batts too far back, the tail will fall off on takeoff).

So I am thinking of moving the fan behind the F9 (rear wing joint) former, perhaps all the way behind the wing TE.

A bientot hwh

.
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 04:11 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Herb, man you are fast, thank for the magnets , I will use the latch stuff instead ( like my F 16)
For Cg depend where you install the servos, My TJ is heavy and I'm positive with my placement.
Where you find the 1/64 plywood so wide ? I look everywhere and finally make a fibreglass intake myself.
I like you idea to build the fuselage and wing together easy for incidence.
What you do for control: flap and ailerons or only flap?
To bad i don't live closer ....
J-C
Ps: today is 17C I'm charging cells for an Electra day tomorrow
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 04:26 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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few pics
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bidule View Post
... Herb what fan are you are using? ...
JC, this $19 101mm fan, should be good to 4kW in the MiG-21:

http://www.nitroplanes.com/eldufanun1se.html

For it I plan a solid Neumotor 15xx for a 9S (3x3s) or 12S (4x3s) setup in the 3kW + range.

Or maybe an ultra-long can HP 220-50 if the euro keeps sliding ...

.
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 05:14 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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definitively less expensive !!
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 08:54 PM
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You said it ...

I recently got a price quote from my old friend DS for 4 x DS 51 HDT fans

(new generation, 4kW+, like the one I run in my 1/12 F-16) for the Rafales - $860 just for the fans
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Old Apr 02, 2010, 02:11 AM
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I have had these plans now for like over 2 years hoping I'd get around to it....yet I never did. I have a question for a future build of mine. How are you guys tackling the inlet spike?? How did you make yours? Like the plans said from a solid balsa block or did you use foam and glass it? I had an idea and maybe you can make it run on a type of spring loaded track so it will press backwards like the full scale as it needs more air and such??? Just an idea. I dont know if it can be done. You guys are doing a great job though.
On another note there is a guy near me that has an airworld Mig-21. He talked to me about it about 2 years ago when I drilled him on flight questions. He said it rolls like a drill bit and despite its narrow wings that it is quite agile in the air and is a real sweetheart on landings. Much to my amazement he said people think its a tough model to fly yet he said they cant be more far from the truth. It carves the air up nicely especially when you get it just right and make it's tail slide out in a turn. A beautiful model!!
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Old Apr 02, 2010, 09:03 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Like the plans said from a solid balsa block or did you use foam and glass it
I carve a foam block and mine is much smaller . I will glass and ad carbon fibre @ the tip. Maybe the spring is a good idea for the shock wave

Herb, I run 2 small nirod from the canopy to the hatch (like the TJ F 16) to secure the front hatch and a canopy hatch for the rear.
A bientot.
J-C
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Old Apr 04, 2010, 08:31 AM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Nice build, JC! How are the mains done? I designed one a while back but couldn't come up with a simple enough arrangement for the mains. Retracting at 90deg means the legs must be very short or the gear moved way out towards the tips, whilst doing it scale at 45deg forward means all sorts of funny angles in the geometry to get the wheels to sit flat if you aren't going to keep them vertical like the full size.

Stu.
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Old Apr 04, 2010, 01:25 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Hello Stu,
No, they are not scale , the retract are near the tip and going inside the wing making a small dent in the fuselage . They work fine and the front gear is also very short . The best will be a rotating retract .
The maiden is for maybe a month ....
I flew my Electra and F16 1/12 @ our field and if you go pass the runway the plane just stop . The ground is so soft, glad the Electra have those soft mount
The maiden for the F 16 with your fan is coming soon and I will tell you what is the first impression.
J-C
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Old Apr 04, 2010, 02:45 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015 , May 28-31
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Nice work guys!
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Old Apr 07, 2010, 12:24 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Canopy finish , but I think next time ( winter )I will use cedar , balsa is to porous , the canopy is not that clear, I'm sure I can get some advice from the specialist!!
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 12:43 PM
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Looks pretty good to me JC !

You might have to smooth out the plug by using maybe bondo or just primer, and then sand with very fine grit sandpaper.

And perhaps then add some tiny bit of mold release wax or similar.

I am going to try several coke and softdrink bottles, pulled around a wood plug to see what comes out of it.

Have a few more progress pictures on my MiG-21 here in my blog, still waiting for the Springair retracts:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1216363&pp=100

.
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 02:35 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Nice build Herb, I like the fact you will use flaps .I try the coke thing :not good. Don't use wax ,the plug will stick to the plastic only mineral oil or olive oil if you are a French/Swiss chef like me.
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 07:20 PM
Big gov never Works
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Try some TFE spray dry lubricant. I used it yrs ago on balsa plugs. Or you can form the plug from pink foam, wood run-off base, layers of glass/finishing epoxy. Sand, more resin. Bore holes in base, eat out foam with lacquer thinner. Fill with Hydrocal casting gypsum. Will now take the heat from the plastic.

Also, you can make the first pull from thin plastic, over the mold you have. Trim the base and form the actual canopy over that thin base layer.

Fuzz
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 07:30 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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JC, the best way is to vacform one layer of plastic over the form and leave it there, then form your actual parts over that.

Stu.
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 07:32 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Looks nice, Herb! No retracts?

Stu.
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 07:58 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015 , May 28-31
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Another option is to fill the clear canopy that you just pulled with plaster of paris. When is dries pop it out and lightly sand it.

Also your plug can be improved by simply coating it with epoxy or CA (expensive way) and finish sand when dried.

Looking good guys.
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 12:18 AM
Big gov never Works
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumax View Post
JC, the best way is to vacform one layer of plastic over the form and leave it there, then form your actual parts over that.

Stu.
Doh...why didn't I think of that.. G'day Stuey!

Fuzz
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 12:48 AM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Originally Posted by St. Martin View Post
Doh...why didn't I think of that.. G'day Stuey!

Fuzz
G'day Fuzzy!

LOL! I was typing while you were, but it took me 10 minutes to type it - I reckon the keyboard gnomes keep moving the keys around on my keyboard during the night, making it hard to type the next day....

What I do for canopy moulds is make one from plaster then heat it up and soak it with high temp epoxy. When cured, sand and polish it, then coat it with Freekote mould release which is a Teflon film type release which makes it really slippery.

Stu.
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 01:00 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Thank for the input. Will keep simple and do a retake over the first one. Good idea.
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Old Apr 11, 2010, 04:47 AM
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Damn Herb, I'm Jealeous. That looks sweet!!!! Cant wait to see you guys get em flying. This is one of the coolest projects out there.
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Old Apr 11, 2010, 11:57 AM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Closer to D day, the fan and electronic are inside fuselage (JR match box for elevator servos) , mylar tube; more : battery tray , canopy fitting and a layer of primer before maiden.
The good new is the tail is heavy with no Cell . With 8 cells a under the bump the plane balance @ 30% of the wing root.
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Old Apr 11, 2010, 07:04 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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The plane weight with out battery and paint : 3.2 kg + 1 kg ~ battery
The total weight should be 10.5 LB.
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Old Apr 12, 2010, 05:19 PM
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Very nice JC ... looks like you are getting closer to the maiden .

Your weight looks pretty good to, I was planning on 9lbs for mine. What batt size are you using (9S 4000'?)?

I looked at various CG options, and with a CG of 18% MAC (which is appropriate for a delta wing planform) I end up with a CG at around 40% of wing root chord. That puts the CG around 27.3 cm from the wing LE at the fuse side. For the maiden I would move that forward of 1cm, to say 26.3cm.

I'd say that 39% to 40% wing root chord is a good starting point, in any case better be conservative than too far back.

It looks like what you write above is maybe a bit too far forward?

When I get a chance I will recalculate the CG taking the front fuse and tail lift into account, but I think the above should be pretty close.

Edit: Done, see here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1216363&pp=100

.
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Old Apr 13, 2010, 10:31 AM
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JC and Herb,

have a look at this link : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1123570

Might be helpful regarding CG placement, I have the same plan and was doing some research on it last year but put it away to focus on other projects.
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Old Apr 13, 2010, 02:56 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Yes, I think I will follow your CG advice > For the first flight I will use 10 XP 5000 Mah 40C or 10 S. Hyperion 4350 Mah .
BTW: This morning I visited the Ottawa Museum of aviation and I was lucky to seat in a Mig 21 Cockpit , what a feeling . After we visited the storage hangar (only with invitation) they have a variety of incredible planes: Salamander, Avro Wings ,Old German bomber from 14/18 war etc....I will post some pictures on my blog .
BTW: Herb I like you canopy plug, you are an incredible builder......
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Old Apr 17, 2010, 02:58 PM
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I started to plank the fuse Actually it's not too bad, I even enjoy it at times (must be a sign of perversion I guess).

It's nice to see the MiG-21 taking shape though ...

.
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Old Apr 17, 2010, 04:06 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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I told you Herb , planking is: yoga of the modeller.....
I noticed your car don't match the plane . A Lada will be more appropriate hahahah.

Since you send me a new CG measurement
I ad to lest the plane @ the front, 80 grammes of lead to balance with 10S
No flying today bad weather , I advance a bit.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 02:33 PM
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Looks great JC

I am still in the planking stage ... it will take me a while to get done - and I don't have the retracts yet ...

A really good looking canopy seems like major work. I have found a couple that are very close in shape though, once properly trimmed to size.

The one shown in the pic is a thin gws j-10 canopy. The larger and thicker one on the table is a sapac composite t-45 (hawk) canopy, of which I have an extra.

The latter can be ordered as an inexpensive replacement part from sapac america. I am thinking of getting either one of those to work (trim to size).

.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 05:36 PM
jean-claude Terrettaz
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Herb , If you want, you can send me your plug and John Dutofski ( model by John ) will make one for you or myself to, but not the same quality!!
20 Celsius today and I apply the primer and the green for radome...
Sure boring pictures, almost always the same , but I love "retro" jets.
And our Ella ( Saint Bernard ) always around for pictures..hard to resist.…
I'm such chicken for the maiden
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Old Apr 22, 2010, 01:46 PM
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Keep them coming JC ... What scheme do you have in mind ?

I love to see pictures of your MiG-21, keeps me motivated to keep up the pace on mine.

There is nothing like your own scratch built creation taking shape in front of you

I got my box of fibeglass cloth (18g and 58g per m2) from hc at less that half of what I pay locally, and it is better quality, very nice.

I started glassing the fin, hor. stabilizers and wing bottoms. The Springairs should arrive today, so I can finally do the retracts.

Regarding the canopy offer, yes having it made professionally sounds good ... my only problem is that my canopy plug is a) unfinished, need some of that plaster of Brussels stuff, and b) I need to finish up the top fuse to see if my plug matches the fuse outline - which it probably will not.

.
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