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Old May 29, 2011, 10:45 AM
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North vancouver, B.C. Canada
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Originally Posted by mschulz View Post
Ok I have to vent a little bit...thanks in advance for listening!
The weather here in Chicago stinks! -Mike

Vancouver had the worst recorded spring in 50 years
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Old May 29, 2011, 10:45 AM
3d NOOBular
3DNater's Avatar
USA, UT, St George
Joined Aug 2010
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Im just glad i got my flying in in the morning cuz we had a major wind storm roll in about 3:30. It was pretty crazy.
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Old May 29, 2011, 10:47 AM
Montana Transplant
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United States, OR, Klamath Falls
Joined Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by u2builder View Post
Waldo, I totally love Saitos, but like any engine, tuning them is hard for me. I know the basic proceedure, use a tach and find the peak and back down about 300 rpm on the rich side. But finding the peak is tricky because unlike a 2S you don't have the sound to guide you as much and I worry about going to lean. Plus, it is such a noisy nerve rattling thing and it sucks up a tank a fuel quickly. And the you have to tune the low end by making it so lean it will just barely run. And then you are supposed to go back and do the high end again. Mine run pretty well but are probably too rich and use more fuel than they should. They use a lot of fuel running rich. I wish there was some info somewhere that tells the approximate RPM with a given prop for each engine. That would help us know when we were in the ballpack.

BTW I am running 20% nitro fuel. But I think if you can get it to run well on 15% you will save money on fuel. Hey Mt. Flyer, you seem to know these Saitos. If I wanted to try 15% nitro fuel instead of 20%, would I need to set the engines a little richer or leaner?

I am running Saitos on almost all my planes now. I think it was a video that someone (Waynemia?) posted showing two Twists, one with 2S and one with 4S that got me to try my first Saito. I love the way they run and sound. And I was definitely a 2S guy before I tried my first Saito. Good luck with your new Saito!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldopepperaxe View Post
Thanks for the advice fellas So I'm right in the ball park at 8,000 well thats where it seemed to run the best anyway so I'll leave it alone, I was just going by the Saito Instruction book for break in and it has the 18x6 prop tached at 10,000 so I'm glad I didn't just get determined to hit that mark.

Mt Yes the 15% I have has 18% oil I'll be getting some four stroke fuel just haven't been to the LHS in a bit. and I'm sure it was detonation for sure. I did richin it back up until she was purring again.

RC I've never run Heli fuel Is that better than the 4 stroke fuel (Higher Oil Content or something?)

U2 I've been a 2 stroke guy all my life really My first 4 stoke was the OS Surpass 70 and I never put a tach on that one just because I never had a tach LOL but she tuned up nicely, The Saito is of course much bigger and more expensive so I want to make sure its right so I'm going through the motions for sure. I think the Saito 1.80 gets about 9 minute flights with a 16 oz tank LOL

MS I hear your pain we decided a couple of years ago weather (wind, Rain) wasn't ever going to stop us again as we were losing too many weeks of flying because the weather wasn't right on our flying day, Now we just show and fly regardless of wind speed or how hard its raining we fly in the sprinkles if its a heavy rain day, Its only made better pilots out of all of us.
Heck we were flying in 20 plus winds all day yesterday. when we get a calm day its like hitting the lottery LOL
#1 use a tach to set Saito's and most other 4 Strokes, most of the time the "pinch test" will not work

In the manual for Saito's there is listed the RPM range and there is a prop range chart the SCALE chart is the best and closest to getting Max RPM in flight.. the aerobatic chart can over rev in flight...

There is no way to tell you what needle setting you need for fuel or day.
changing from 15% to 20% will make little difference in "needle" setting..
HSN is dependent on; {altitude, temp, humidity}density altitude and fuel quality, NOT prop size.

2S vs 4S fuel: from a fuel manufacturer;
"there is no real difference in the fuel that is marked 2S and 4S... read the ingredients: for a 4S you want min 18% oil 20% is better... no more than 15% shouldof this oil should be synthetic... if in doubt all more Castor (can't hurt). The higher the Nitro content , the better it will run and idle. Be carefull with this, the more nitro the more heat the motor develops, hot days run them rich."

--> I use 15% with 18% oil, then I add 2.5oz of Castor to bring oil to 20%
on my YS's I run 20% with 20% oil and add the same 2.5oz of Castor

one gallon of fuel is 128oz so 1.3 oz is approx 1%

hope this helps
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Old May 29, 2011, 10:49 AM
Montana Transplant
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United States, OR, Klamath Falls
Joined Aug 2005
1,929 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brathanke View Post
Im just glad i got my flying in in the morning cuz we had a major wind storm roll in about 3:30. It was pretty crazy.
still blowing here... gust to 62mph
many boats flipped in the lake yesterday....lake has 3-5 ft waves on it
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Old May 29, 2011, 11:25 AM
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winston mo
Joined Oct 2006
7,497 Posts
I've had a satio and over tach it, dropped a valve and ruint the engine. It cost more to repair than a new one. it was a 50 GK, same thing happened top my dad on his 100.

Mike I hear ya we havn't had much flying weather either.
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Old May 29, 2011, 11:39 AM
3.14159265358979323846264
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Wichita, Ks
Joined Jun 2005
1,986 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldopepperaxe View Post
Thanks for the advice fellas So I'm right in the ball park at 8,000 well thats where it seemed to run the best anyway so I'll leave it alone, I was just going by the Saito Instruction book for break in and it has the 18x6 prop tached at 10,000 so I'm glad I didn't just get determined to hit that mark.

Mt Yes the 15% I have has 18% oil I'll be getting some four stroke fuel just haven't been to the LHS in a bit. and I'm sure it was detonation for sure. I did richin it back up until she was purring again.

RC I've never run Heli fuel Is that better than the 4 stroke fuel (Higher Oil Content or something?)

U2 I've been a 2 stroke guy all my life really My first 4 stoke was the OS Surpass 70 and I never put a tach on that one just because I never had a tach LOL but she tuned up nicely, The Saito is of course much bigger and more expensive so I want to make sure its right so I'm going through the motions for sure. I think the Saito 1.80 gets about 9 minute flights with a 16 oz tank LOL

MS I hear your pain we decided a couple of years ago weather (wind, Rain) wasn't ever going to stop us again as we were losing too many weeks of flying because the weather wasn't right on our flying day, Now we just show and fly regardless of wind speed or how hard its raining we fly in the sprinkles if its a heavy rain day, Its only made better pilots out of all of us.
Heck we were flying in 20 plus winds all day yesterday. when we get a calm day its like hitting the lottery LOL
We called Byron's Originals one day and tried to order four-stroke fuel because we had a few customers who refused to buy our normal sport/standard fuel. They told us they only produce 4-stroke fuel because of that reason, and it's EXACTLY the same blend, just at the time had green or blue dye instead of the pink stuff that the normal fuel has.

For the heli fuel, 30% nitro for me has always ran significantly cooler than 15%, idles better, transitions better, does everything better. Spins another 500rpm even. It's also got typically 20-25% oil. The problem is it's 100% synthetic normally, so you have to make damn sure you're not EVER too lean, or the engine will not like you. Castor is more forgiving about lean runs, whereas synthetic just burns off and you end up with nasty scratches or, at worst, a siezed engine in-flight. The other downside is the $30/gallon instead of $13-$15/gallon for 10-15%.

-Eric
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Old May 29, 2011, 12:20 PM
Fly now crash later
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Canada, ON, Newmarket
Joined Nov 2006
2,245 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt_flyer View Post
The higher the Nitro content , the better it will run and idle. Be carefull with this, the more nitro the more heat the motor develops, hot days run them rich."

--> I use 15% with 18% oil, then I add 2.5oz of Castor to bring oil to 20%
on my YS's I run 20% with 20% oil and add the same 2.5oz of Castor

one gallon of fuel is 128oz so 1.3 oz is approx 1%

hope this helps
Quote:
Originally Posted by rccardude04 View Post
For the heli fuel, 30% nitro for me has always ran significantly cooler than 15%, idles better, transitions better, does everything better. Spins another 500rpm even. It's also got typically 20-25% oil. The problem is it's 100% synthetic normally, so you have to make damn sure you're not EVER too lean, or the engine will not like you. Castor is more forgiving about lean runs, whereas synthetic just burns off and you end up with nasty scratches or, at worst, a siezed engine in-flight. The other downside is the $30/gallon instead of $13-$15/gallon for 10-15%.

-Eric
Higher nitro does run cooler, Problem is most guys lean it out more and this will make it run hotter.
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Old May 29, 2011, 12:45 PM
A trail of smoke is GOOD!
waynemia's Avatar
USA, TX, Springtown
Joined May 2008
7,224 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder View Post
Waldo, I totally love Saitos, but like any engine, tuning them is hard for me. I know the basic proceedure, use a tach and find the peak and back down about 300 rpm on the rich side. But finding the peak is tricky because unlike a 2S you don't have the sound to guide you as much and I worry about going to lean. Plus, it is such a noisy nerve rattling thing and it sucks up a tank a fuel quickly. And the you have to tune the low end by making it so lean it will just barely run. And then you are supposed to go back and do the high end again. Mine run pretty well but are probably too rich and use more fuel than they should. They use a lot of fuel running rich. I wish there was some info somewhere that tells the approximate RPM with a given prop for each engine. That would help us know when we were in the ballpack.

BTW I am running 20% nitro fuel. But I think if you can get it to run well on 15% you will save money on fuel. Hey Mt. Flyer, you seem to know these Saitos. If I wanted to try 15% nitro fuel instead of 20%, would I need to set the engines a little richer or leaner?

I am running Saitos on almost all my planes now. I think it was a video that someone (Waynemia?) posted showing two Twists, one with 2S and one with 4S that got me to try my first Saito. I love the way they run and sound. And I was definitely a 2S guy before I tried my first Saito. Good luck with your new Saito!
When I change Nitro content or props, I like to recheck the tuning. I open the HSN about a turn or so, assuming it was tuned previously. This is to make sure it is rich. If you don't know, then set it to the factory initial setting. I start the engine and leave the glow starter on. Using a tach, I peak the RPMs then back off 300rpm. I then take the glow off. Now I recheck the RPM. I go to full throttle then richen the HSN expecting the rpm to go down. If it goes up, keep richening until it decreases. Now I peak the RPM again and then back off 300. I expect this rpm to be about 8500 to 9500. Too slow it is over propped and too high it is under propped with the current conditions (fuel, fuel flow, and weather)

The HSN should be good. Now run at idle for about 20 - 30 secs then go full throttle to check the LSN. It should immediately speed up to max rpm. If the engine does anything but speed up to max, I adjust the LSN it tiny amounts until it does.

If you can't get the lsn adjusted, look for valve adjustment, glow plug, air leaks, bad fuel, low fuel pressure, and low nitro content.

The Saitos come with a Saito branded plug. Hangar-9 came out with a new four stroke plug last year. I have a couple but I have not used them yet. I rely on OS-F plugs. I have a new Saito 1.00 Black Night for the Corsair and I will put an OS plug in it before trying to start it.
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Old May 29, 2011, 01:25 PM
Do Da Dippidy
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Joined Jun 2008
7,305 Posts
In my experience, the Saito 180 performs best with an APC 17 x 6.
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Old May 29, 2011, 04:55 PM
3.14159265358979323846264
rccardude04's Avatar
Wichita, Ks
Joined Jun 2005
1,986 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davecrash View Post
Higher nitro does run cooler, Problem is most guys lean it out more and this will make it run hotter.
Higher nitro is less forgiving if you do it wrong, but assuming you tune the thing correctly it'll run cooler head temperatures. The combustion temperature should be higher but the increased fluid flow through the engine due to the required richer mixture means lower overall operating temperature.

Any engine will run hot if you lean it out too much. I've never had trouble with running too lean on 30%. I always seem to run it too rich, which isn't exactly a bad thing on these engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowboy1966 View Post
In my experience, the Saito 180 performs best with an APC 17 x 6.
Never did try a 17x6 on mine. The 18x6 seemed to work well but was a little too slow for me. 16x8 was fast but without a whole lot of hover pull. The 17x8 was the best balance on my Seagull Super Star, although that's a pretty fast plane with relatively high wing loading.

-Eric
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Old May 29, 2011, 05:53 PM
BANG IT!!!
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United States, PA, Bellefonte
Joined Dec 2007
12,046 Posts
Its a HOT som beach.... Burnt AGAIN
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Old May 29, 2011, 11:35 PM
Walk of Shame Season :)
Waldopepperaxe's Avatar
NY
Joined Jun 2008
4,759 Posts
Man I should go back and copy and paste the entire thread into a Book and sell it LOL the information I receive on this thread is just incredible

I'll have to try these suggestions out for sure as being new to the Saito world I need to trust nobody but the advice from My T_ _ _ Ted brothers

I may have a 17x6 prop on hand so I'll try that out too.

definitely putting the OS F plug in.

I may have some Monster juice someone gave me last year too I'll have to check out that, and the add oil thing too, I love experimenting anyway so it will be cool to try all these suggestions.

I always try to run on the rich side anyway, I like long life spans on my engines

I was never a fan of the synthetic fuels really, of course I use them all the time because thats all that is available sometimes, people say they burn cleaner Which is probably true but I hate the Black sticky residue left on the plane, at least the caster wipes off clean and doesn't stain the covering as much. but I'll have to try me some of that 30% heli fuel I'd like another 500 RPM's lol

My favorite fuel is Wildcat 15% with 18% oil, I think that fuel runs everyone of my engines the best. they just seem so much smoother, cooler and more efficient running then any other fuels I've tried, maybe its just a coincidence. I've heard from many people that cool power 2 stroke and their 4 stroke fuel just comes out of the same vat and the same for a few other brand name fuels.

Hot here too DOG lol Not boiling or anythng but Hot to me just the same
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Old May 29, 2011, 11:52 PM
Montana Transplant
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United States, OR, Klamath Falls
Joined Aug 2005
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Winds forcast for 2morrow is calm...
Wish I had a camera man
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Old May 30, 2011, 07:26 AM
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winston mo
Joined Oct 2006
7,497 Posts
Of course I sold it 2 years ago but I had an OS 91 fs that I ran for 20 yrs on wildcat 15/18 fuel. I ran her a bit rich but when I sold her along with the sopwithcamel she was in, she ran like a new engine.
I did lapp the valve in once.

I mowed twist field yesterday and realized I could of flown the twist ( well maybe not, got a bum thumb) but still the wind didn't seem that bad. K49 thought it was going to be to windy.

Now some time back I told him to buy a twist but just like my wife he wanted to be differnt and bought a Tango.
Weather man says 30 plus today alittle to much for me now matter what shape I'm in.

Insanemoondoggie ( an old twist brother from the other place ) is moving from michgan I think down here to my neck of the woods.
He's retired now so maybe we'll get lots of flying in this summer.

We've had a rather cool spring and it looks like we may just jump into summer like some of you already have.
Today they are suppose to open the pools, it's going to hit the mid to high 80's but I'll bet that water temp is still going to be down.
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Old May 30, 2011, 09:24 AM
A trail of smoke is GOOD!
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USA, TX, Springtown
Joined May 2008
7,224 Posts
Happy Memorial Day to all military personnel, current and past.
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