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Old Aug 27, 2010, 08:55 AM
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question on the smart parallel balance cards/boards? when parallel charging lets say 6S packs, if person accidentaly plugs in the balance charge plug from one of the packs backwards will it spark? or open up and go black? someone asked me and I dont know answer/and I dont want to try it LOL


either person plugged backards OR like what happened in post #1461 manufacture soldered plug reversed.

thanks!
Joe
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsmith751 View Post
I am trying to charge two 6s 5000 packs at 10amps each, so 20 amps total. I am using the PL8 with FMA banana plugs and smart parallel balance cards. My power supply is an Iota DLS 55 12v. The max the chargerer is putting out is 8amp/battery or 16 amps. On my Supply tab my voltage in is 14.38v @ 33.8 amps. My Power Status says Reduced (Supply Noise). I imagine that is what is preventing me from charging at the full amperage.

What would cause Supply Noise? I have connected the PS to the charger by removing the clamps and compressing the connect tabs in the charger terminals. My PS is not hot and I really don't suspect that unit. Could it be my input voltage into the PS?
Please refer to your users manual. You will find that if your power supply is only 12 volts you cannot get the full 1000 watts output. In order to achieve the full 30 amps / 1000 watts you need a 24 volt power supply.

Glen
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsmith751 View Post
My Power Status says Reduced (Supply Noise).
I believe this is the key to the limiting and not the 12V, though you are near the max power of a 12V supply.

This message indicates that if the PL8 attempts to draw any more current from your power supply that the voltage becomes unstable and varies up and down so much that the PL8 is having trouble using it. A capacitor on the output of the power supply would help clean up that noise, but maybe it is best to just replace it with a quality 24V supply if you plan to use it with the PL8.
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 01:19 PM
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 01:40 PM
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I've noticed something a little odd with my PL8. On all of my 3s packs (I have 3 Hyperion G3s) the Ri for cell number 3 shows approximately 3 times higher than cells 1 and 2. As noted this occurs on all 3 packs. Cells 1 and 2 are usaully ~3Ω and cell #3 is usually 9Ω to 11Ω.

Using the same packs and same FMA manufactured node adpater with my Cellpro 10s, all cells are ~3Ω. Oddly, my 6s and 8s packs when charged on the PL8 don't show this variance.
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveM732 View Post
I believe this is the key to the limiting and not the 12V, though you are near the max power of a 12V supply.

This message indicates that if the PL8 attempts to draw any more current from your power supply that the voltage becomes unstable and varies up and down so much that the PL8 is having trouble using it. A capacitor on the output of the power supply would help clean up that noise, but maybe it is best to just replace it with a quality 24V supply if you plan to use it with the PL8.
Steve- Thanks for the input. I do have a question on the power supplies capability. The IOTA DLS 55 power supply I am using is rated a 750 watt continuous and 12v. I also thought that supply should supply a consistent output. Do you think that there could be something else contributing to the supply noise? Or maybe I am just maxing out the PL8 on 12v at 486watts (14.38x33.8)?
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 07:37 PM
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14.38V * 33.8A = 487 W would be the input to the PL8 not the output. IOTAs are noted for having extremely clean / stable output and are often used with high end car audio equipment but they could have a capacitor to start going out.

16A X 25.2V (6S) =403 watt output and looks about right efficiency wise so the question remains why only 487 watts from the ps and why noisy? I would try running the ps in parallel with a Pb and see what happens. I assume that PL8's input is set for min. 12 V and max of 50 amps.

Charles
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 09:37 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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I had two Cellpro 10s failures in less than a month so Jamie Marks gave me a upgrade to PL8. I upgraded to combo 4 with parallel charging. The upgrade was reasonably priced and I appreciate FMA's customer service.

My question for group on this thread is what are the major advantages of the PL8 compared to the Cellpro 10S?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Bill
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 10:49 PM
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Well with 12V / 50A input 500 watts versus 160 watts output. 25 memories(presets) versus 6, 100 watts internal discharge versus none,about 2,000 plus more available settings for tweaking, 4 buttons to move around easy versus the two on the CP10 and that does not scratch the surface. Post #1 has the PL8 specs. as a starting point and you can download the CCS from their site ,link in first post.

Charles
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 10:50 PM
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So for 6S 5A Battery charging with the PL8 and a single IOTA DLS-55, what would be the available amperage for charging.

On the IOTA we know we have 55 Amps at about 13.6V. The PL8 takes 50 Amps input but can produce only 516 Watts to charge with at 13.6v input. There needs to be an efficiency factor for the PS and the PL8 of 80-90%.

Are the full 30 amps available for 6S 5A charging on 13.6vdc ?

Without efficiency factors taken into account yet (to keep it simple), would this calculation be correct 516w/25.2v=20.48a ?

If the above calc would be correct without efficiency then would a safe bet be to calc using 80-90% of the 516w? 413w-464w range with efficiency? Then 413/25.2=16.38 to 464/25.2=18.4 resulting in 16.38 amps to 18.4 amps available for charging on 6S 5A packs?

16.38/5 = 3.28 packs to 18.4/5 = 3.68 packs at 1C (obviously you can't have fractional packs, I'm just trying to clarify the math, it really mean available headroom) ?

I'm still working on understanding the math and the effects of a single 12v PS on the PL8.

Thanks for your patience,

Brownie
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsmith751 View Post
I am trying to charge two 6s 5000 packs at 10amps each, so 20 amps total. I am using the PL8 with FMA banana plugs and smart parallel balance cards. My power supply is an Iota DLS 55 12v. The max the chargerer is putting out is 8amp/battery or 16 amps. On my Supply tab my voltage in is 14.38v @ 33.8 amps. My Power Status says Reduced (Supply Noise). I imagine that is what is preventing me from charging at the full amperage.

What would cause Supply Noise? I have connected the PS to the charger by removing the clamps and compressing the connect tabs in the charger terminals. My PS is not hot and I really don't suspect that unit. Could it be my input voltage into the PS?
Hi:

There is definitely something wrong here. Charles made a good suggestion to parallel the output of your PSU with a 12V Pb battery. You could also try powering the PL8 ONLY with a fully charged 12V Pb battery. Steve also informed you quite accurately about what could be happening with your supply voltage. I would not be so quick to rule out the possibility that something is not proper with your supply. The message you are getting in the CCS is quite clear. This does not mean that there couldn't be a problem with the PL8, but it should be easy enough to rule out the PSU as the problem.

Check the next post I am going to make. I'll answer another customer's question directly and this will also answer the balance of your question.

Tim Marks
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownie433 View Post
So for 6S 5A Battery charging with the PL8 and a single IOTA DLS-55, what would be the available amperage for charging.

On the IOTA we know we have 55 Amps at about 13.6V. The PL8 takes 50 Amps input but can produce only 516 Watts to charge with at 13.6v input. There needs to be an efficiency factor for the PS and the PL8 of 80-90%.

Are the full 30 amps available for 6S 5A charging on 13.6vdc ?

Without efficiency factors taken into account yet (to keep it simple), would this calculation be correct 516w/25.2v=20.48a ?

If the above calc would be correct without efficiency then would a safe bet be to calc using 80-90% of the 516w? 413w-464w range with efficiency? Then 413/25.2=16.38 to 464/25.2=18.4 resulting in 16.38 amps to 18.4 amps available for charging on 6S 5A packs?

16.38/5 = 3.28 packs to 18.4/5 = 3.68 packs at 1C (obviously you can't have fractional packs, I'm just trying to clarify the math, it really mean available headroom) ?

I'm still working on understanding the math and the effects of a single 12v PS on the PL8.

Thanks for your patience,

Brownie
Hi:

If you can open the attached zip file in Excel, your question can easily be answered using Question 4. If you use the spreadsheet and input the specs you provided, the answer is 22.9A.

http://www.revolectrix.com/support_docs/item_1301.zip

Here is the math of the spreadsheet:

13.6v * 50A = 680W * .85 (worst case efficiency) = 578W

Battery voltage at end of charge = 4.2 * 6 = 25.2V

578W / 25.2V = 22.94A

Tim Marks
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Old Aug 27, 2010, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Well with 12V / 50A input 500 watts versus 160 watts output. 25 memories(presets) versus 6, 100 watts internal discharge versus none,about 2,000 plus more available settings for tweaking, 4 buttons to move around easy versus the two on the CP10 and that does not scratch the surface. Post #1 has the PL8 specs. as a starting point and you can download the CCS from their site ,link in first post.

Charles
Charles,

Thanks. It looks like the phrase "light years better" seems appropriate. Thank you.

Bill
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownie433 View Post
So for 6S 5A Battery charging with the PL8 and a single IOTA DLS-55, what would be the available amperage for charging.

As Tim replied, 22.9amps.

On the IOTA we know we have 55 Amps at about 13.6V. The PL8 takes 50 Amps input but can produce only 516 Watts to charge with at 13.6v input. There needs to be an efficiency factor for the PS and the PL8 of 80-90%.

Yes the efficiency is about 85%. But don't confuse the max available current of your IOTA 55 with what the PL8 will draw at any given setting. The IOTA can supply 55 amps but the PL8 will only draw what it needs for charging the connected battery(s).

Are the full 30 amps available for 6S 5A charging on 13.6vdc?

No. As indicated by Tim's post your maximum output with 13.6v input and charging a 6s battery will be 22.9 amps.

Without efficiency factors taken into account yet (to keep it simple), would this calculation be correct 516w/25.2v=20.48a?

For a 12v power supply yes. But keep in mind that your power supply is 13.6 volts. The PL8 can supply up to 22.9 amps when charging your 6s pack.

If the above calc would be correct without efficiency then would a safe bet be to calc using 80-90% of the 516w? 413w-464w range with efficiency? Then 413/25.2=16.38 to 464/25.2=18.4 resulting in 16.38 amps to 18.4 amps available for charging on 6S 5A packs?

The above calculations already take the efficiency into consideration. The PL8 will provide 578 watts out with a 13.6v input.

16.38/5 = 3.28 packs to 18.4/5 = 3.68 packs at 1C (obviously you can't have fractional packs, I'm just trying to clarify the math, it really mean available headroom) ?

It should be 578 watts / 25.2 v = 22.9 amps. So you can charge your 6s 5000mah battery at 4.5C. Or you could charge 4 of your 6s 5000mah batteries in parallel at one time.

I'm still working on understanding the math and the effects of a single 12v PS on the PL8.

Work with the spreadsheet Tim provided the link for. I think it will help.

Thanks for your patience,

Brownie
I hope this has been a help.

Glen
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Old Aug 28, 2010, 07:19 AM
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Massachussets
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I too have been getting the "supply noise" error. I'm using an Iota DLS 45 charging four 5s 5000 lipos in parallel. Power supply output voltage is about 13.6v. If I charge at 20A total I will sometimes get the error. If I cut back to 19.5 A all is well. If I attach the jumper on the power supply that increases the voltage to 14.5v I can charge up to 21A.
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