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Old Jan 11, 2010, 10:14 AM
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Oliver Stone gives insight into messed-up moonbat thinking

Hitler? A scapegoat. Stalin? I can empathise. Oliver Stone stirs up history

In a film-making career spanning almost 40 years, Oliver Stone has turned political controversy in America into an art form. He has upset financiers with his caustic portrayal of Wall Street; conservatives with his depiction of Fidel Castro, Hugo Chávez and George Bush; and Democrats with his conspiracy theories about the assassination of John F Kennedy.

All of which may come to look like a tea party – of the social as opposed to right-wing protest variety – when his next big venture hits the screens.

Stone announced yesterday that a 10-hour crash course in the history of the 20th century he is putting together for American TV is designed as an antidote to the inaccuracies and biases he believes exist in the conventional historical narrative dished out in American schools and mainstream media. The title alone gives an inkling of what lies ahead: Oliver Stone's Secret History of America.

The thrice-Oscar winning director gave a further glimpse into his thinking at a gathering of TV critics in Pasadena on Saturday, when he didn't so much open up a can of worms as unleash an entire supermarket shelf-load. He began by startling the panel by bringing up the H word.

"Hitler is an easy scapegoat throughout history and it's been used cheaply," he said. Then he mentioned the S word. "Stalin has a complete other story. Not to paint him as a hero, but to tell a more factual representation. He fought the German war machine more than any person."

Then he went on to mention two M words – Chairman Mao and Joseph McCarthy, architect of the 1950s anti-communist purges in Washington, and the T word – Harry Truman's dropping of the atom bomb in 1945.

Of the many potential storms that could be brewing over his Secret History, which will be broadcast by the cable channel Showtime later this year, Hitler promises to be the most incendiary. Stone told the Television Critics Association that "we can't judge people as only 'bad' or 'good'. [Hitler] is the product of a series of actions. It's cause and effect. People in America don't know the connection between WWI and WWII."

The implication that Stone is seeking to put forward a good side of the German dictator hitherto not seen by Americans is, even by Stone's own accomplished record of stirring up stinks, pretty radical.

The comment inspired Stone's collaborator on his Secret History, Peter Kuznick, a history professor at the Washington-based American University, to tell the audience of television critics and, in an apparent damage-limitation exercise: "He's not saying we're going to come out with a more positive view of Hitler. But we're going to describe him as a historical phenomenon."

Even so, such a relativist approach to Hitler as a product of his time as much as an individual embodiment of evil is likely to prove hot material. Stone said he would similarly put Stalin "in context". "I've been able to walk in Stalin's shoes and Hitler's shoes, to understand their point of view. You cannot approach history unless you have empathy for the person you may hate."

Within hours of the comments being made, they had begun, in the predictable pattern of such things, to effervesce on the internet like yeast in dough.

A blogger by the pen name Orphia Nay summed up the billowing emotion: "Ohhhhhh, this is not going to end well," she wrote. Others were less temperate. "Again, another 'blame America first' person. If he/they hate it, just leave it. We'll all have a party and help you pack. You won't even have a full body scan."

Say what you will about Stone, he can't be accused of opting for the easy life. His 2006 film on 9/11, World Trade Center, was both critically acclaimed and a box office hit, with an appeal to all political persuasions. Next he bounced back with a sharp portrait of George Bush in W. Then he made South of the Border, his glowing portrayal of Chávez as champion of the poor which premiered at the Venice film festival in September where Stone appeared with Chávez on his arm. His Wall Street 2, with Michael Douglas reprising Gordon Gekko, is in post-production; it's a fair bet that the money men will come off no better this time than they did the last.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/f...oliver-stone-history
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Thats messed up.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 10:32 AM
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Bah. He is just screwing around. About all he has done for 30 years. Anything to get his name in the paper.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 10:49 AM
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Oliver stone is an idiot who happens to make decent movies, but his political views suck.....
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 03:27 PM
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I am quite confident that horror that was WW2 will soon be responsibility of the US.

I have personally taken responsibility for the history of slavery in this country. I have British ancestors. They (I) brought slavery to the US. They (I) used it to make a fast buck for 2 centuries.

Please Oliver,

...tell my story
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 03:31 PM
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It is a valid question, if WW1 had not finished in the way it did. With the German soldiers going home thinking they had been betrayed by the people at home, rather than beaten in the trenches, if the winners had not imposed such stringent penalties on Germany, would the German people have allowed him to come to power?
It is possible that the USAs entry into WW1 made WW2 and the holocaust inevitable.
Read the histories of Hitler and the Nazis rise to power and the foundations were in the way WW1 ended.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 03:36 PM
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D B Cooper's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkie View Post
It is a valid question, if WW1 had not finished in the way it did. With the German soldiers going home thinking they had been betrayed by the people at home, rather than beaten in the trenches, if the winners had not imposed such stringent penalties on Germany, would the German people have allowed him to come to power?
It is possible that the USAs entry into WW1 made WW2 and the holocaust inevitable.
Read the histories of Hitler and the Nazis rise to power and the foundations were in the way WW1 ended.
Looking back at that period in history and what forces were at work in Germany, it makes me wonder how the US will react when it inevitably hits its credit limit. How will uncle sam react when his credit card gets rejected ? What special interest group will be the first to be thrown off the gravy train ? How far will it go ? How far will it need to go before something like what happened in Germany starts taking hold ? Freaking scary.

You can already see mass scapegoating going on continually. It's a small step from labelling the scapegoat to "Gore"-ing it and moving on to the next scapegoat.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 03:38 PM
Love & a Molotov cocktail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eljimb0 View Post
I am quite confident that horror that was WW2 will soon be responsibility of the US.

I have personally taken responsibility for the history of slavery in this country. I have British ancestors. They (I) brought slavery to the US. They (I) used it to make a fast buck for 2 centuries.

Please Oliver,

...tell my story
Would you rather that the unpleasant things that were done were hidden away?
We may not like it but in the historys of our countries bad things were done.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 03:43 PM
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Punkie,
I agree with much of what you propose here.
Wilson's global ego is a suspect for sure.
Europe had been quietly throwing it's youth into the shredder every 25 years or so for centuries. The borders moved around a little bit. The correct people owned the land. Everyone gave their royal cousins away to the next fiefdom.. It worked. Everyone was happy, They made good music . (Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, ect)


We came along and gave them what they had never had before... A clear winner.. the rest is history.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 03:48 PM
Love & a Molotov cocktail
Punkie's Avatar
on a boat on the river cam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D B Cooper View Post
Looking back at that period in history and what forces were at work in Germany, it makes me wonder how the US will react when it inevitably hits its credit limit. How will uncle sam react when his credit card gets rejected ? What special interest group will be the first to be thrown off the gravy train ? How far will it go ? How far will it need to go before something like what happened in Germany starts taking hold ? Freaking scary.

You can already see mass scapegoating going on continually. It's a small step from labelling the scapegoat to "Gore"-ing it and moving on to the next scapegoat.
You see attacks on groups both religious and political on this forum that are very similar to those used against Jews and Communists in post WW1 Germany.
Its a case of pick a minority "not like us" religion/group and distort, exaggerate and lie about how they are the reason the country is going down the pan.
I ask you, not to fall for it.
There is one thread starter on this forum who is guilty of these things and will twist anything to make it seem like the truth.
Read the history's and understand, not the blog versions, the real books like "The Nazis, a warning from history". http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nazis-Warnin.../dp/056349333X
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 03:49 PM
Love & a Molotov cocktail
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...
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Last edited by Punkie; Jan 11, 2010 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Its not worth getting the points.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 03:50 PM
Love & a Molotov cocktail
Punkie's Avatar
on a boat on the river cam
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Originally Posted by Eljimb0 View Post
Punkie,
I agree with much of what you propose here.
Wilson's global ego is a suspect for sure.
Europe had been quietly throwing it's youth into the shredder every 25 years or so for centuries. The borders moved around a little bit. The correct people owned the land. Everyone gave their royal cousins away to the next fiefdom.. It worked. Everyone was happy, They made good music . (Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, ect)


We came along and gave them what they had never had before... A clear winner.. the rest is history.
nevermind.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 04:03 PM
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D B Cooper's Avatar
United States, MI, Eastpointe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkie View Post
You see attacks on groups both religious and political on this forum that are very similar to those used against Jews and Communists in post WW1 Germany.
Its a case of pick a minority "not like us" religion/group and distort, exaggerate and lie about how they are the reason the country is going down the pan.
I ask you, not to fall for it.
There is one thread starter on this forum who is guilty of these things and will twist anything to make it seem like the truth.
Read the history's and understand, not the blog versions, the real books like "The Nazis, a warning from history". http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nazis-Warnin.../dp/056349333X
My point was that Hitler's rise to power was possible mainly because of the financial hardship in Germany, largely due to the big reparation payments they were paying from WWI. The US is (IMO) likely to be feeling that kind of financial pressure when it goes from borrowing money every day to maintain its extravagent spending and has to transition from living above its means to living far below its means. It won't be long before the biggest thing in our budget becomes interest on the national debt. Can you see how the American public would fall right in line behind another pied piper under those circumstances and follow him right down the road to hell ?
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 06:14 PM
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Alot of truth in this thread. Good job men...
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