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Old Feb 12, 2010, 09:33 PM
Dragon Slayer
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Shelton,WA
Joined Nov 2004
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DanL:
Thanks I'll give it a try.
I am going up to the NW Hobby Expo. saturday so I will not have time this week end to work on the Wawona, I'll get to it next week.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 11:07 PM
Dragon Slayer
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Shelton,WA
Joined Nov 2004
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Wile I was at the North West R/C Modle Expo. I was talking with Randy Florquest (spelling) and his son, they both did restoration work on the Wawona, they said I should be able to get some of the celing decking to incorparate it into my build, that would be so cool, I would use it for the main deck and cabins.
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Old Feb 14, 2010, 12:39 PM
Dragon Slayer
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Shelton,WA
Joined Nov 2004
1,839 Posts
Pict up Two of these HS-815BB Mega Sail Servos at the hobby show, they should do the job, just need to get one more so I can control all three main sails, I'll use the jibs as static, I think that will work ok, if i get them set right.
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Old Feb 14, 2010, 03:09 PM
SCALE Sailor
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United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
1,672 Posts
It's a schooner Rop, all you need's one sail trimmer and a rudder servo.
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Old Feb 14, 2010, 05:58 PM
Dragon Slayer
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Shelton,WA
Joined Nov 2004
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So what you are saying is, one servo one line with three tails comeing off the single line and do all three sails at the same time?

I am only familuar with sailing a 36/600, and control of the sails, both sails is very importent.
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Old Feb 14, 2010, 09:48 PM
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Bozeman, Montana, United States
Joined Aug 2003
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Control of 3 sails (masts) is going to be important, if you want to sail realistically. So, I disagree with Jerry Todd. Sails overpower rudder, so if you want to turn, you will need to treat the sails fore of the CLR differently (ie sheet differently) than sails aft of the CLR. To turn downwind, you will need to slack the mizzen sheets; to turn upwind you will need to slack the foresheets. You probably have experienced this differential sheeting on your sloop. Differential sheeting (bracing) is the way you sail a square-rigger, and, in fact, the way you sail any multimasted ship. It is possible, with some models, to horse the boat around with the rudder, to be sure, but it is an inelegant way to sail, in my opinion. If you are going to spend time (and authentic wood) on your model, wouldn't you want to sail her the way the real salts handled Wawona? I've sailed 3 model schooners, and none of them would perform the way I wanted w/o differential sheeting.

For a 3 masted schooner, I'd expect you could combine the jib and foremast sheets on one servo, and the mizzenmast sheets on a 2nd servo. The center, mainmast, sails can be trimmed with a 3rd servo; Or, depending on how the CE of the mainmast sails postion wrt CLR, you could combine the mainmast sheets with either the fore or the mizzen sheeting servos, if you want to reduce RC equipment aboard. You'll have to determine which servo the mainmast should combine with by experiment - you can calculate the static CE and static CLR, and get an idea, but once the vessel is moving, the relationship between CE and CLR changes.

I found it possible to use 2:1 reeving and servo arms (on a regular servo) with Aldebaran's mainsail (fore&aft). I avoided winches. Winches will let you rig with blocks, if you wish, since you will have plenty of haul available to play with. Blocks add complication, and make light wind sailing more difficult - the friction of the line running through the blocks will hamper the boom swing when you let out line. What I am trying to say is that simplified running rigging, using servo arms, may be possible on your vessel. See John D.'s Bluenose thread over on Model Mayhem to get good ideas for winches, if you are set on using them (and his work magnificently, from what I've read).
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Last edited by Brooks; Feb 14, 2010 at 09:59 PM.
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Old Feb 14, 2010, 11:22 PM
Dragon Slayer
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Shelton,WA
Joined Nov 2004
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What I had in mind was rudder servo, the fore stay sail bungie type slack line, inner & outer jib sail with one sevo, for the fore sail one servo ,one for the main sail and one for the mizzen sail, I am useing a DX7 so I've got plenty of channles to work with. I belive that I need to control all main sails and the two fore jibs for ease of turnning and tacking, I don't think snapping the rudder hard to one side to get the boat to turn is the way to go, and with out jib control it still may not turn, when I sail my 36/600 I set my sails so the boat will run straight, I don't like to keep rudder push to get the boat to run in a stright line , not only is it a work out, it just does'nt look like you now what you are doing with you boat snakeing accrost the lake.

Am I wrong? Is this not how the ship should be run
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Old Feb 15, 2010, 08:47 AM
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Bozeman, Montana, United States
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Stuffing 5 servos below deck is beyond my capabilities, but if you have room & skill, it will be neat. From a maneuvering perspective, you will not need that many - I think of a multimasted ship as a teter-totter. All the sails fore of the pivot point (CLR) try to turn the hull downwind. The opposite is true of all sails aft of the CLR. Thus, you can get by, maneuverwise, with just 2 sail trimming servos, combining all sails fore of the CLR on one servo, and all the sails aft on the other servo.

From a speed perspective, having 4 sail trimming servos will be good. Each sail affects it's neighbor. So, trimming a block of sails the same way, as you must do with combined sheets on 1 servo, will hurt your aerodymanics some. W/o a sistership to sail against, you likely would not see the speed difference between the 2 servo vs the 4 servo versions - but if you are a racing sailor, you would always know :-). You will not have sufficient visibility of the individual sails to make precise trimming, via observation, possible, at least once the ship is offshore any distance. But if you spend enough time with the ship nearshore to see what is needed, you will be able to make a good guess as to the precise joysticks needed once the ship is offshore.

The practical downside to complexity is maintenance. Running rigging wears out and must be replaced. Re-reaving lines below deck can be a pain. Running lines to 2 servos might be easier than running lines to 4, depending on hatch sizes and positions. If servos get wet, removing them for dissassembly and drying out -> 2 are easier than 4 :-). If you are happy tinkering with your craft after every cruise, though, then maintenance is not going to diminish your enjoyment of the boat.

So, it's up to you what you want to do, complexity-wise. Hobbys, by definition, are person-specific, what you want to get out of one is entirely your perogative. I know one guy who let complexity stall completing his boat. I'd be discouraged to not have something to sail, but he seems ok with waiting until he figures out just what to do.
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Old Feb 15, 2010, 10:24 AM
SCALE Sailor
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United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
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If your headsails are rigged to let you back them when coming about, puting them on a separate servo won't hurt. Having the fores'l isn't going to make a difference there unless you rig it to back against the wind - a more complex set-up than a sail-arm alone would allow.

Combine the main and mizzen on one servo. Personally, I'd put the masts on one servo and the jibs on a second servo - at most.

I'll assume after all the trouble of spiling planks and creating that hull, you'll be rigging it with something more than buttons and cup-hooks?

If so, manual sheet adjustment could be in the form of the sheet passing through a sheet block at the end of the boom, then under the boom through one of DanL's bowser-blocks, to a block at the boom crotch and back to the bowser. Sliding the bowser under the boom sets the sheet length while it will look like preventor tackle to the casual eye. None of the blocks require working sheaves.
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Old Feb 17, 2010, 11:02 PM
Dragon Slayer
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Shelton,WA
Joined Nov 2004
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Still planking away, some pic's
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Old Feb 22, 2010, 09:54 PM
Dragon Slayer
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Shelton,WA
Joined Nov 2004
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Still laying planks, get two or three before I go to bed at night, so i can get up and go to work, at least I'm working right now when most other places are part time or not at all.
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Old Feb 24, 2010, 10:39 PM
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Monterey Bay California
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you're making fast progress! Looks good!
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Old Feb 24, 2010, 11:23 PM
Dragon Slayer
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Shelton,WA
Joined Nov 2004
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Aerominded:
It's not to hard, just need to get more time to work on her. Working up the sides know too the bulkwalks.
More pic's of the progress.
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Old Feb 24, 2010, 11:27 PM
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I know how that goes!
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Old Mar 02, 2010, 08:52 AM
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Germany, BW, Stuttgart
Joined Jan 2010
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Just a quick note to say that I've subscribed to this thread. Can't wait to see how this one turns out. I'm from the NW and I've been a little homesick lately.

Spent some time on the Built in America site and they have some really cool stuff there. I can't believe how many detail drawings they have for the Thayer. And all the black and white pictures. Truly a goldmine!

Good luck on the build,
Dave
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