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Old Dec 26, 2009, 11:40 PM
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Ramona Ca.
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Build Log
A new Year and time for some new Designs

I think it is time to stir the pot with some new and unique high performance slopers. This is one of my goals this year to put out two or three new designs
just to see if I can come up with something that would be desirable to the world of slope junkies. My good friend Jason Lilly is really trying to get me to go to the Dark side but I think it is to much commitment in time to go fly so I dont think there will be a DS design Yet. I think my stuff will stay on the front side for now. I want to come up with a few planes that will fit the needs of a sloper that flies often without big lift and can still fly it when the big air shows up. It will most likely be a twisty wing thing because they pack so small and you can change the plane by sliding on a different set of wings and tails.I want to stretch my skills with molding wings and tails and keep things clean and slippery so the lead wont be a factor to get her to go fast. Landing a lighter plane makes them last longer and you can fly in more places. Any wishes might be considered so let them be known here if you want.Stay tuned and we will all see what will come from the shop this year.
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 12:41 AM
Firecracker!
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San Francisco & Santa Cruz
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Love to see what you come up with Joe!
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 12:49 AM
DWA
John 3:16
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South Orange County,CA.
Joined Dec 2004
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Sounds like a great goal Joe. Looking forward to see what you come up with.


Dave
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 10:32 AM
Lover of fast slope gliders!
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United States, AZ, Goodyear
Joined Apr 2004
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I'd love to see a t-tail design. Kinda like the kestrel
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 10:56 AM
The Truth is Not Forgotten
Hotchkiss Co.
Joined Feb 2008
297 Posts
Joe glad to hear you talk like this,your work is a driving force for me.Joe Mike Furclow ,here on rcg.has been building 60in. or so slopers with rg15 at8.5 % from epp and do they tear it up.His wings are SOLID and the planes are fast and cheap to build ,a great transition plane to composits.Are you going to keep it cheap and simple fast and sturdy or step it up a few notches and leave the foam behind? What ever you do I will be inspired , Pete
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 11:04 AM
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Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
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How do you land these twisty wing things with no flaps/brakes?
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 12:27 PM
Firecracker!
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San Francisco & Santa Cruz
Joined Oct 2004
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The right kind of landing zone helps. Basically you need a way to bleed off the speed so you can put it down without damage.

If you have a steep front side, you can do a pop-n-drop approach -- go down low, then fly back towards the hill climbing up to the lz, and run out of speed just as you clear the lip. Stall about 3 or 4 feet off the ground and it settles in, hopefully on some grass, soft dirt, or bushes. If you have a ridge with a steep back side, you can do pretty much the same thing on the back side.

If you have the type of landing area where you do a standard downwind-crosswind-upwind approach with flapped planes, you can use the same approach with a twisty. But you need a lot more room, go back much further, to get the speed to bleed off.

I've had a twisty for a few months now and I have used all three of these landing types with success. I thought I was going to have to build a canopy speed-brake but so far that hasn't been necessary...
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 01:57 PM
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How do we land them? Carefully...veeery carefully.

It's not that bad, really. Once you get it down you'll definitely be better at landing a plane with brakes. My own twist on burning off energy is to fly low and away, then pull a hard 360 down there. You'll lose a large chunk of your energy that way.
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 02:08 PM
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Hmmm.... These methods are OK with a foamy, but I must admit the thought of doing that with a mouldy has been putting me off TWF so far..
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 02:18 PM
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You know, you just have to move past the worry. If the landing looks bad just fly back out and try again.

If you look like you're going to come up short...well, try to not stall and plunge into the bushes- you're more likely to hit thicker branches and bash in your LE. Try to settle gently in the tops.

I have quite a few planes with no brakes- the PSSers are a bit easier to land but the landing style is the same.
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 05:01 PM
Is my CG correct?
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Wollongong, Aus
Joined Sep 2009
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Aaaah, uuuum whats a twisted wing thingy? I am thinking whole wing moves instead of just ailerons

The landing discussion is great as well. Never been confident with knowing what to do there
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Old Dec 27, 2009, 07:06 PM
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Ramona Ca.
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu956 View Post
Aaaah, uuuum whats a twisted wing thingy? I am thinking whole wing moves instead of just ailerons

The landing discussion is great as well. Never been confident with knowing what to do there
You got it. Wingerons and Pitcherons the whole wing moves on a wing rod. Wingerons have tails that control pitch but Pitcherons have a solid tail and the Pitch and turns are controlled by the wings. Landing is an Art form and the more you do of it the better you will get at it. You shoot for a perfect landing everytime and sometimes you get it and sometimes you dont. Get used to the plane and know what it will do and If and when it will stall and the confidence will grow quickly. It helps alot to have a nice site to land on like GRASS but not everybody has that so get used to where you fly and in time and some repairs you will get it. Hanger rash and landings is where your plane takes on most of it damage unless you have a midair so get confident with landing and it just takes doing it to get good at it. Flaps help slow the plane down but dont land the plane for you so you just have to adapt to other methods of slowing your plane down.
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Old Dec 28, 2009, 03:54 AM
Is my CG correct?
discostu956's Avatar
Wollongong, Aus
Joined Sep 2009
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Lucky my local has a nice large bit of grass, as well as some nice long grass when the confidence is really low

Are there benefits to wingerons/pitcherons other than the novelty?

When you say pitcherons control pitch as well, is this on flying wings or the whole wings control pitch on a tailed plane as well? Or is the pitcheron the tailplane?
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Old Dec 28, 2009, 04:12 AM
Twisted and Confused
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Joined May 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemach1 View Post
Landing is an Art form and the more you do of it the better you will get at it. You shoot for a perfect landing everytime and sometimes you get it and sometimes you dont. Get used to the plane and know what it will do and If and when it will stall and the confidence will grow quickly. It helps alot to have a nice site to land on like GRASS but not everybody has that so get used to where you fly and in time and some repairs you will get it. Hanger rash and landings is where your plane takes on most of it damage unless you have a midair so get confident with landing and it just takes doing it to get good at it. Flaps help slow the plane down but dont land the plane for you so you just have to adapt to other methods of slowing your plane down.
100% agreed here Joe. I used to shoot average landings before I flew TWFs but since then, I can honestly say that I've only had one or two bad landings in the last year. The key is energy management and knowing where you gain/lose speed on your approach. I used to fly the approach as just the last couple of turns on final, but now spend some time trying to get the right amount of speed to approach with - too much and I bail, to little and......
Seriously, I often shoot a dozen or more approaches (though I now shoot less and less as I get better) until I hit the right one.

Stu
TWFs roll very quickly, and they are generally less draggy in high speed carving flight than a flapped aileron and fly faster due to the lower drag (except at full aileron deflection, in which case they have a high roll rate but slow down very quickly).

Pitcherons - both wings move together to create change in pitch i.e. the result is the same as moving the whole tailplane in elevator function but the tailplane is a normal one but completely fixed without moving parts.

Steve
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Old Dec 28, 2009, 04:18 AM
Is my CG correct?
discostu956's Avatar
Wollongong, Aus
Joined Sep 2009
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Thanks steve. I thought the ailerons would add more drag.

I need to fly with some other people. I have only ever flown with one other person once, so I need to learn some of this stuff from others.

Anyway, I think I have hijacked this thread enough. Sorry joemach1
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