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Old Jan 19, 2010, 01:17 PM
0.9g retracts
Yellow Baron's Avatar
3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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Just so you guys don't think I've gone overboard; I'm still "working" on this project. Getting ready for the next semester and catching up with friends has taken up all my time. I should be back to full steam next week once things have settled down into the new routine.

I've been collecting line's plans as well. I about 50 at the moment (that's 50 different ships to build!) plus 5 designs that'd fit footy hulls perfectly.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 08:08 PM
0.9g retracts
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3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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Well, I'm back and rolling, I got most of the deck sanding done, and rough shaped the hull. Pics to come.
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Old Jan 30, 2010, 09:36 PM
0.9g retracts
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3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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Pics...

Well as I promised ealier this week I've uploaded pics of my progress on the clipper Valhalla. I used-up my last sanding drum on the dremmel, so I had to go pick up more this afternoon (along with assorted safety gear). I should ba able to finish roughing the other side of the hull and fitting the hatches tomorrow. Then I'm going to tack the two hull halves together and start on the hand shaping.
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Old Jan 30, 2010, 10:16 PM
0.9g retracts
Yellow Baron's Avatar
3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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Quick question.

I'm looking through the Pamir threads (for maybe the third time now), and on the second one Brooks shows a design for a 'M' shaped Bentinck yard; later on someone mentioned they got the same result by using a piece of bent wire. I'm wondering if one could get the same result using a loose foot (no yards or wires to support it) and run the lines back OVER the shrouds? that way the sail could simply 'fold' over the shrouds?
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 04:20 AM
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Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
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YB i think you would have a much easier timesanding the hull if you took a big sanding bord with a bit offoam between the bord and the sanding paper... i sanded Somers hull with a kitchen sponge and 120grit paper in about 2 hours of sanding!

The problem with the shrouds and the course is an interesting one i have yet to get the geometry right to actually get the foot of teh sail at apropper angel to the hull when using shrouds at the scale location. whith the loose footi would be a bit worried what thappens when the sail backwinds.. but then maybe when you have enough tensionon your clewlines it might work
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 10:52 AM
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3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
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MB, that's amazing! Thanks for the tip!

Didn't think of backwinding... Then again, like you said, if the clewlines are tight enough it wouldn't really be a problem. Also maybe trim it so that the clews are resting just behind the fore most shroud when the yards are hard over, so that last tip of the sail can't be pushed between the mast and the shrouds?
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 08:58 AM
0.9g retracts
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3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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I got one side pretty much sanded (the sponge trick works incedibly well), still need to do that other, maybe tonight if I don't get boged down with homework in Econ. Pics this afternoon no matter what.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 02:57 PM
0.9g retracts
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3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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Got through Econ with no homework, so I can work on the clipper this afternoon! Untill then: the almost sanded hull. I tacked the two sides together with tiny amounts of superglue to hold it in place while I sand it.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 06:34 PM
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Bozeman, Montana, United States
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looking good, YB.
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Old Feb 03, 2010, 08:38 AM
0.9g retracts
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3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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I got the keel glued into place and the hinge for the rudder mounted, now I just need to figure out exactly how it'll all work in the end . I should have the other side of the hull sanded by the weekend at the latest. I'll upload pics this afternoon.
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Old Feb 03, 2010, 06:35 PM
0.9g retracts
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3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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The keel has been glued in place and the insides hollowed and smoothed (more or less). If you notice in the pics of the inside of the hull I left a bit of balsa to form a shelf of sorts, this is to glue the sevo mountings to (sections of spruce).

Right now I'm looking at a hull only weight of 25 ounces (halves and built-up section).
The deck will add 10 ounces (ply and planking)
All the wood and brass for the masts add another 10 (I won't be using ALL of it).
Radio gear and servos will add 7.

By my caclulations that's 3 pounds 4 ounces (1.47 kilos). That leaves 4 pounds 12 ounces (2.15 kilos) for balast, keel and sail cloth weight.
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Old Feb 04, 2010, 10:40 PM
0.9g retracts
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3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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I took today off from sanding to work out my radio set up, I got it so all the sail servos move to their maximum throw (55 degrees either way with 140%, max, EPA), and I cut, sanded and drilled the new ply servo arms. I know I need at least 60, so I plan to do the 2-to-1 line set up since I know my servos have the grunt to overcome the drag (over 40 ounce-inches of torque). my question is this: can you run the line through more "pulleys" (eyescrews) and get MORE than the 2 times??
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Old Feb 05, 2010, 12:07 PM
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Hi YB. Yes, you can run through more pulleys to get more haul. However, 2 potential problems
a) the more pullys, the more total friction in the system. Ashley says, for real pullys (of the 1900's variety, before ball bearings) to allot about 10% loss due to friction for each pully (sheeve). As you can see, after 5 sheeves, you are spending 1/2 of your torque on just overcoming pully friction itself, leaving only 1/2 for the actual rope movement. With models, the extra friction would possibly make yard swing "jerky" rather than smooth.
b) the more pullys, the more potential for dangling lines below deck to catch something. I had to put in the inner deck (cut from plastic file folder) to keep my 2:1 lines from catching on stuff (namely the servo arms of the other servo located below).

If you want more servo travel, the method that I have used is is to insert a "servo doubler" or "servo extender" unit between the rx and the servo. Servo City sells them; they are somewhat bulky, compared to the Blue Point Engineering ones I have used. But Blue Point has been out of stock for nearly a year, so I suspect they no longer make theirs. The servo extender will increase servo travel from 90deg stock to about 170deg, making it easy to get 60deg/side (total 120deg). I have to dial back my travel adjust, on the Spektrum tx, to keep from overswinging the yards when I use the extenders.

Geometry of swinging yards dictates that the braces are tightest when the yard is square to the hull (for a run), and are loosest when the yard is braced hard (for the beat). You can make use of this fact to get more yard swing. Just rig your braces so that they are moderately tight on the square, and they will automatically give more slack on the beat. The wind will push the yards farther around, in taking up the slack, making up for the 5deg you are missing. This works very well with 2:1 reeving since the geometry "problem" is exacerbated - to our advantage :-)

The only disadvantage to this slack-braces method is that the yards are slightly more suseptible to getting taken aback if you point up too high, or if you get a wind gust that heads the boat. I have not had problems with this, though, and the Aldebaran is rigged thusly (I do have servo extenders on the braces, but probably could dispense with them).
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Old Feb 06, 2010, 11:55 AM
0.9g retracts
Yellow Baron's Avatar
3" from insanity, 2' from the computer ,Richford, Tioga county, Southern Tier, New York, U.S., North American Continent, Northern hemisphere, Earth, The Sol System, Milkyway Galaxy, The Universe, The Current Dimension, Your Selected Realm of Reality.
Joined Dec 2006
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Brooks,

Thanks for the imput. The way I've spaced my servos I don't think I'll have any problems with the lines getting caught on another servo (of course now that I've said this, that's the only thing they will do! ). I guess the question now is; if one "pulley" gives 2x reeving, do 2 "pulleys" give 4x? I'm trying to get the braces to the ends of the yards without spending much more money (college student saving for a car ). The radio I'm using is a Futaba 6EX 2.4Ghz, so it probably has comparable programing options to a Spektrum DX6. I'm going to make the length of my braces adjustable (sort of a "bowsie block" type method) so I could go from the slack to tight in no time flat.


The build:

Last night I planked the deck untill my CA stores ran out . I'll have to get some this afternoon while I'm in Ithaca. If you can see it in the pics, I've cut 5 hatches along the length of the boat, those will permit acess to the entire radio, servo, and rigging set up (in theory I could rig the boat, and install all the gear after I've glued the hull on). The other side of the hull is getting there, hopefully I'll have that done this week end (lesson learned, cut NEXT TO the line, not in the genreal area).

the control setup at the moment is thus:
Left up/down (throttle): Main and mizzen bracing.
Right up/down (elevator): Foremast bracing, fore-staysails in/out, and jibbs in/out
Left right/left (rudder): Rudder (what a shocker )
Right right/left: Spanker and aft-stay sails in/out.
Ch 5 and 6 (switches): spare, maybe a horn or something .
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Old Feb 06, 2010, 01:57 PM
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Bozeman, Montana, United States
Joined Aug 2003
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Multiplication reeving

Here is a diagram for reeving your braces to get more haul out of the servo arm's movement. I've shown 3 different multiplication reevings: 2:1 (which I use) 3:1, and 4:1. The more multiplication, the stronger your servo has to be to complete the haul, since the power of the servo will be the inverse of the multiplication: 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 of the original listed servo torque. The speed of the haul will be multiplied too, so you have to be sure to move the joysticks slowly, otherwise it looks dumb to see the yards whipping around, and also the fast movement is hard on the rig.

You could substitute real blocks, with sheeves, for the yellow screweyes I've shown. There would be less friction/block, but there would be more chance of the lines jumping the sheeve and snarling in the block body. You'd have to pick the line size carefully to avoid this problem. Since I use thin polyester thread for braces, I just use screweyes. Note, the gap in the eye (where the brass bends around to form the eye itself) must be closed with a drop of medium or thick CA before use, otherwise the thread will snarl or jump out of the screweye....guess how I know that :-).
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