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Old Dec 21, 2009, 06:06 AM
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Ed Morales's Avatar
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Craig Smith Sails

BG Sails

Sails Etc Sails
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Old Dec 21, 2009, 06:58 AM
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Which are your favourites Ed? Same Hull (number 33) Its hard to compare the 3 with the conditions and point of sail being different but the Craig Smith Sails don't seem to like that mast or the conditions. Is the mast the same for all 3 too, if so what is the mast?
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Old Dec 21, 2009, 10:21 AM
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hi,
at the top range of the A RIG, the Craig Smiths are faster. at light winds to middle of the range for A RIG, the BGs are faster. the BGs get over powered earlier in Top of the A conditions. i use the same rig for both sails. The sailsetcs are B Rig, used only during the monsoon season when the wind speed can be 10 knots to 15 knots. i have a new suit from black magick and from sailsetc and i will use them on my new hull
ed
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Old Dec 21, 2009, 12:10 PM
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Unless the sails really suck, on any given day they would all do well. How much of how well a boat does , depends on who is running the boat. Or who knows how to set the sails up right. Having confidance in choosing your equiptment goes a long way in winning and doing well.
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Old Dec 21, 2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
IOM in Australia has a forum though the ARYA but hardly anyone visits this site is ggod because you get people from all over Europe, you guys over there in USA and skippers from Asia, Aus and NZ.
gpzy, rcsailing.net is worth a look good well known hull designs at a cheap price. But for $1000 you will need to buy second hand or build. What is wrong with the SC4 good boat, we have one in our club and it goes really well.
Mike
IOM AUS 669
SC4 is a good boat and an example of one that typically does not use much rudder on a beat, mine tracks to weather on rails if i want it to. While fast to weather it tends to be slow on the run if conditions are at all stiff as the bow dives.
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Old Dec 21, 2009, 12:43 PM
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GPZY, I think you have it right. As with hulls some skippers find different sails to their own liking and ease of setup. Nice pics ED. Are the Smith and BG sails used on the same rig for the comparison i.e. mast setup identical? Do you find one suits a different mast to another?
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Old Dec 21, 2009, 12:45 PM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewees View Post
SC4 is a good boat and an example of one that typically does not use much rudder on a beat, mine tracks to weather on rails if i want it to. While fast to weather it tends to be slow on the run if conditions are at all stiff as the bow dives.
Whats wrong with the SC4? Me! She love light wind. I just need stick time and I need to learn how to set up the sails on any given day.
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Old Dec 21, 2009, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gpzy View Post
Whats wrong with the SC4? Me! She love light wind. I just need stick time and I need to learn how to set up the sails on any given day.
I love my SC4 as well. As most all IOM designs are a compromise with advantages and disadvantages, it's disadvantage is running down wind in stong winds.
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Old Dec 21, 2009, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pchicken View Post
GPZY, I think you have it right. As with hulls some skippers find different sails to their own liking and ease of setup. Nice pics ED. Are the Smith and BG sails used on the same rig for the comparison i.e. mast setup identical? Do you find one suits a different mast to another?
same rig from sailsetc. bgs are more fuller compared to cs
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Old Dec 22, 2009, 06:03 AM
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Thank you Ed,
Interesting what you say as I hear people mention the Smith ones to be good in light wind. As mentioned earlier I think there is a lot to come from a well set up mast to suit any sail type. Some like more tension or pre bend than others. The difference in the way Smith, Gibson or Bantock set up their masts is quite varied from what I can make out.
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Old Dec 22, 2009, 08:06 AM
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from my observation, northern hemisphere boats have higher hounds and spreaders when compared to southern hemisphere boats. and the sidestay eyebolts of the southern boats are set much farther aft compared to northern boats. i think this has something to do with the way they tune the forestay tension coupled with the amount of mast prebend. i had an old kiwi design called the highlander (sold) which came with a TS2 rig and currently a Pikanto and this is what i noticed when i compared the rigs.
ed
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Old Dec 23, 2009, 05:26 AM
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Ed,
There is also a big difference in rig setup here from the Bantock ones to the Gibson ones. The Bantock one is as you say very high shrouds on mast and position on deck of shroud attatchment nearly straight across boat level with mast. Gibson setup has shrouds even lower than that used by Smith down under. Bantock style relies on lots of forward pre bend set in the mast to be able to have any rig tension as far as I can tell. Gibson uses very little pre bend and relies on shroud tension to help keep forestay tight. There was a spreadsheet of all the boat details from the last European championships somewhere but I have not seen it since. Would love a copy.
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Old Dec 23, 2009, 11:46 AM
FROM THE MIND OF A MADMAN
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Originally Posted by Ed Morales View Post
same rig from sailsetc. bgs are more fuller compared to cs
Can there also be a difference in the cut of the sails form sailor to sailor. I am sure an expierienced sailor can request his sails made different.
What material is the most popular right now ?
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Old Dec 23, 2009, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gpzy View Post
Can I am sure an expierienced sailor can request his sails made different.
I was never successful and tried several well know rig/sailmakers. They have since retired, but sails for a monohull are much fuller cut than sails for a multihull. After "trying" to explain the need for a recut to a flatter shape - it seems I just got them "educated" and they left the hobby. Thus for my multihulls, I will always do my own cutting, finding the longer time resulted in a decent sail the first time around - not the 3rd. or 4th.

Probably most do a good job, but like big boat sailmakers - if you don't have the "name" or reputation, you will receive a standard (off-the-shelf) cut for the class you are sailing.

In my mind, I see a sailmaker laughing to his buddy ... "Hey, this guy thinks he can specify sail camber" "Just send him one from stock shelf A-2 He will never know".

I had a nice Dacron/Mylar main that I could not keep from hooking the leech, until I discussed at a race and one of the sailors did a "midnite re-cut". Worked fine ever after, but it was something I missed and had "hoped" the expensive guys would have caught and fixed.

Ahhh - well.
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Old Dec 24, 2009, 09:45 AM
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Sydney, Australia
Joined May 2008
424 Posts
Most important.

I've made no comment for a while since the comments were well beyond my realm.
I've only just started racing. Last month.
IOM racing is new to me. I've read most threads on most forums about IOM boat theory. This thread is interesting.
But; the best information I have recieved has been at lake side. The real world where I see every type of hull design competing each weekend "racing".
In my opinion having a "needle shaped" bow or a "flat-nosed" bow is not that important. >> Stick them in the water, side by side and see which one is quicker. Not too complex. Most of the time a hull is heeling so much; which hull design is most "frictionless" in water at a 30* heel angle, is way more imporant. Are the gunnels under water?
What I've learnt/seen - most important things in order are ---

1. Sail trim. If your sails are not set, i.e. tuned, you have no chance. No matter the brand. I make my own sails which is amazing. Not rocket science. Having sail shape is vital. It's taken me over a year to learn how to make Mylar sails.
2. Fin - A thick fin will slow the boat down. Same with rudder. Both cause drag. Bulb shape I will argue.
3. Mast - but this is a function of sails. Tuned to get either weather helm or your preference. Goes back to sail tuning.
4. Skipper - if you can't control the boat you will never win.

Not to mention a good sheeting setup and rudder control. For me, even the colour of the boat is important, as with failing eyesight it's hard to see my boat rounding marks.

Larry L.
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