SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
View Poll Results: If you are reading this thread are you an IOM owner
Yes 26 49.06%
No 27 50.94%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 12, 2009, 12:12 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2009
72 Posts
Hi Larry,

Found this lot if it is any help http://www.onemetre.net/Build/Armwinch/armwinch.htm

p
pchicken is offline Find More Posts by pchicken
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 12, 2009, 02:03 PM
Registered User
USA, LA, Mandeville
Joined Feb 2005
886 Posts
Hi Larry,

I use arm winches on my IOMs, and everyone else in our club does too. The photo shows the bow where the servo is. The arm is a 1:2 setup, where an inch of movement of the arm gives two inches of sheet travel. The pink line is there to pull the slack out of the sheet line to keep it from snagging on anything when eased in light wind. The arm is about 2 3/4" from center of pivot to center of block.

The sheet is dead ended to the cockpit bulkhead, runs through the block on the end of the arm, then through a fairlead straight back to the stern of the cockpit. There, it turns around another block and runs forward to a split ring about mid cockpit. The jib sheet is attached to the ring, and runs forward to a block near the shroud, then to the centerline and out to the boom. The main sheet is also attached to this ring, and runs forward to the bulkhead, through a block there, and back to the top of the mainsheet post and out to the boom.

The elastic is also attached to the split ring, and runs forward, through a fairlead in the bulkhead, to a block near the bow, back to a block on the side of the hull, and to the other block on the arm winch and it is anchored back on the hull. It is kind of complicated, and most of this elastic could be a line, with a little elastic at the end. It is set up like this to only put a little tension on the servo arm, through out the entire arm movement. An elastic that only pulled the split ring forward, would get tighter as the arm pulled the sails in, putting more unnecessary strain on the arm winch. I can take more photos if this is unclear!

IOM photos, (build and sail) in several IOM folders of my flickr.com account, http://flickr.com/photos/hew_hamilton
hew565 is offline Find More Posts by hew565
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2009, 02:03 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
2,359 Posts
Larry - and others .......
before asking someone to post something that has been discussed multiple times in multiple forums, please take the time to do a search.

Let me suggest that each person who wants to know basics, simply take the time to visit the US1Meter class pages at the AMYA website, and read (download if you want) the complete and well written CONSTRUCTION HINTS AND TIPS section. It is done for a 1 meter boat, but can be adapted to any size boat, one or more hulls, one or more masts/sails.

To save some of you time - here is the link:
http://www.theamya.org/boats/us1m/us1mcons.php

The reason why elastic is used on "some boats" is if they are using a drum winch instead of an arm, the slight tension helps keep the sheet line(s) from falling off the drum and getting tangled in other servo/radio gear stuff. An arm winch is simply an arm on top of a servo with a connection at one end (or both) for your sheets to be attached. Since there is no winding of the sheet, it is less apt to get caught on something - and you can run sheets using either drum winch above or below decks. Usually arm winches operate on 140 degree swing - or less. Drums can run from 1/2 turn up to 6 turns (or more). If you want to buy a continuous drum, keep in mind the continue to turn until you tell them to stop. If you don't stop them, the powerful ones can easily remove your rig with their torque and power. Also be aware that most (not all) drum winches are slightly slower than an arm winch - both a good and bad feature.

Depending on the amount of sheet travel you need to allow booms to swing out to around 90 degrees from centerline of hull, you may need to use multiple purchase 2:1 or more to obtain enough sheet line travel. Nothing requires you to use a set of blocks to change direction, but it sure reduces the friction on the lines. No reason you can make your own blocks or 180 degree turning or thru-deck fittings.

I'm only suggesting that it does get a bit tiring to keep having to post easily found information, time after time.

PLEASE look at the suggested document, download it completely, print our a copy and keep it by your workbench for reference. If you feel in a benevolent mood, a small check for gratuity to the US1M class probably would be appreciated - whether you are a member of AMYA or not. And even though you are outside of the US, nothing prevent membership in AMYA.
Dick L. is offline Find More Posts by Dick L.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2009, 02:52 PM
Registered User
United States, DE, Lewes
Joined Dec 2005
398 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick L. View Post
Larry - and others .......
before asking someone to post something that has been discussed multiple times in multiple forums, please take the time to do a search.

Let me suggest that each person who wants to know basics, simply take the time to visit the US1Meter class pages at the AMYA website, and read (download if you want) the complete and well written CONSTRUCTION HINTS AND TIPS section. It is done for a 1 meter boat, but can be adapted to any size boat, one or more hulls, one or more masts/sails.

To save some of you time - here is the link:
http://www.theamya.org/boats/us1m/us1mcons.php

The reason why elastic is used on "some boats" is if they are using a drum winch instead of an arm, the slight tension helps keep the sheet line(s) from falling off the drum and getting tangled in other servo/radio gear stuff. An arm winch is simply an arm on top of a servo with a connection at one end (or both) for your sheets to be attached. Since there is no winding of the sheet, it is less apt to get caught on something - and you can run sheets using either drum winch above or below decks. Usually arm winches operate on 140 degree swing - or less. Drums can run from 1/2 turn up to 6 turns (or more). If you want to buy a continuous drum, keep in mind the continue to turn until you tell them to stop. If you don't stop them, the powerful ones can easily remove your rig with their torque and power. Also be aware that most (not all) drum winches are slightly slower than an arm winch - both a good and bad feature.

Depending on the amount of sheet travel you need to allow booms to swing out to around 90 degrees from centerline of hull, you may need to use multiple purchase 2:1 or more to obtain enough sheet line travel. Nothing requires you to use a set of blocks to change direction, but it sure reduces the friction on the lines. No reason you can make your own blocks or 180 degree turning or thru-deck fittings.

I'm only suggesting that it does get a bit tiring to keep having to post easily found information, time after time.

PLEASE look at the suggested document, download it completely, print our a copy and keep it by your workbench for reference. If you feel in a benevolent mood, a small check for gratuity to the US1M class probably would be appreciated - whether you are a member of AMYA or not. And even though you are outside of the US, nothing prevent membership in AMYA.
Thank you very much for this post!!! I am starting to build my first model sailboat. It's to be a Laerke RG65 for fun sailing - not racing - I just like the 27" size. You just saved me a lot of searching & question answering & time by posting the construction guide link. I just took a quick look at the guide & it sure does answer a lot of questions I have. This is just what I was looking for for rigging etc.

I have plenty of build experience with planes but this is my 1st boat(other than my 1:1 32' Hunter)

I start another post as I progress on the build of the Laerke - so far I've cut the shadows.

Thanks again !!!

Erle
werlec is offline Find More Posts by werlec
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 12, 2009, 09:59 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
2,359 Posts
Erle -

you are more than welcome - especially knowing you are joining the growing US ranks of RG-65 builder/owner/sailors.

You choice is (in my opinion) the best choice for a first boat. It is small enough not to overwhelm the builder, yet big enough to allow building with moderate skills - basic skills - or advanced. There are a huge number of free designs available to download, and they can be built of balsa, fiberglass, or carbon fiber - with none having a performance edge over the other. Designs can be very simple yet fast (JIF65 hard chines) or the hull can be round and fast too.

Radio gear is on the small size saving money, and sails can be made at home - either flat cut single panel, or multi-panel with built in camber. Excluding the transmitter, my guess is that if you have more than $400 -$500 invested for an on the water boat, you've spent way too much. With radio gear (Asian made 2.4 gHz) a good budget figure to start should be around $300 or so, given you don't have to buy special tools and can fabricate at home.

I am just completing hull number 3 of the JIF65 design. One for son, one for grandson, one for son-in-law and I've started on my own boat using some exotic wood veneers for hull and deck. If daughter wants one to race her husband, it will be hull number 5 - and we would have our own family fleet.

There are a few guys out your way if you need inspiration or help. You can email Eric Rosenbaum - current class secretary for more info and to register your boat. Contact him at: rg65.info [at] gmail.com and see if he can forward your name/email to other owners near you.

Regards, and good luck with your build.

Dick
Dick L. is offline Find More Posts by Dick L.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 14, 2009, 08:22 AM
Registered User
8387mike's Avatar
Perth Western Australia
Joined Jul 2009
1,109 Posts
Hello People,
Just found this website what a library of boat designers and sales.

http://www.velarc.net/classe_iom_eng.htm

Hope you enjoy
Mike
IOM
AUS669
8387mike is online now Find More Posts by 8387mike
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2009, 11:48 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2002
1,860 Posts
I found some footage of an Austarlian experiment with variable camber hulls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ClIx8-L3M
Robert May is offline Find More Posts by Robert May
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2009, 06:12 PM
Registered User
8387mike's Avatar
Perth Western Australia
Joined Jul 2009
1,109 Posts
Hope that wasn't a dig at us Aussies, but it was pretty embarrassing. Good thing it doesn't happen in IOM racing. Hmmmmm Brad Gibson Second this year at the worlds. Perhaps we should get the guys designing Aussie IOM's to design the America Cup boat, ohh that right the America's cup is a load of now days tri and cat hulls how stupid it is about the money now not the cup. Give me Clipper any day.

Which reminds me here is a link for virtual skipper look me up
http://www.virtualregatta.com/index.php


8387mike

IOM
AUS669
8387mike is online now Find More Posts by 8387mike
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2009, 09:09 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
2,359 Posts
I'll take that as a "SLIGHT" dig at those of us multihull folks who find that we seem to fit the definition of racing (i.e. going fast) much easier than those who seem to add lead/weight in order to go slower.

If you look at the history - the Cup was won by the "fastest" boat on the water at that time. I believe history will be repeating itself in February (if we can ever get out of the courts) and again some of the fastest boats for closed course racing will again meet.

Although I still wonder why the sailing world didn't recognize the the difference in speed of Dennis Conners vs. Michael Fay. Bigger (in that case) wasn't faster after all.

At least in 2010 we may see actual thoroughbreds racing instead of dinosaurs.

Cheers - and we multihullers will sit around and just have to wait for all those "other" boats to finish before we can start our next race of the regatta series.
Dick L. is offline Find More Posts by Dick L.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2009, 11:27 PM
Registered User
8387mike's Avatar
Perth Western Australia
Joined Jul 2009
1,109 Posts
I'll pay that one Dick, never thought of it that way, racing is racing but its a shame it has come down to 2 countries, sort of makes it boring.
8387mike is online now Find More Posts by 8387mike
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2009, 03:24 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2002
1,860 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
Hope that wasn't a dig at us Aussies, but it was pretty embarrassing. Good thing it doesn't happen in IOM racing. Hmmmmm Brad Gibson Second this year at the worlds. Perhaps we should get the guys designing Aussie IOM's to design the America Cup boat, ohh that right the America's cup is a load of now days tri and cat hulls how stupid it is about the money now not the cup. Give me Clipper any day.

Which reminds me here is a link for virtual skipper look me up
http://www.virtualregatta.com/index.php


8387mike

IOM
AUS669
Not at all, I have a big respect for Oz and its citizens, I am particularly impressed the determination to win and be the best. With a population umpteen times that of Australia we here in Britain struggle to find a decent first team at any Major sport, but your second teams are often in reality as strong as ours. Sure there are a few ocassions when we fluke a win but by and large Australia is nation that should be respected for it friendship, courtesy and competitive spirit.

In reality a good crash in the aircraft section will get discussion going so I assumed a good sinking would help kick of a bit more discussion down here. Maybe its me but I can look at a boat and see what is wrong with it. When Pete Goss launched Team Phillips I was sitting with mate and I told him that the design was wrong for the Southern Ocean, I told him how the boat would fail and where it would fail. 3 weeks later I got a phone call to see if I had seen the news, as predicted the bow of Team Phillips had fallen off. Ron was amazed that I was 100% correct.

I know haven't convinced people yet that most model yachts are sailing backwards, here is something else to consider. When a drop of rain falls out of the sky what shape is it? Its a "tear drop" shape which falls blunt end first. Super Tankers ferrying oil across the Oceans? blunt end first1 And so the list gets longer. Without a trimmable jib I won't ever race an IOM but I reckon it would be fun to pool ideas for an RCGroups IOM design that will easily whoop all those stern first designs.
Robert May is offline Find More Posts by Robert May
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2009, 10:11 AM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
2,359 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
I'll pay that one Dick, never thought of it that way, racing is racing but its a shame it has come down to 2 countries, sort of makes it boring.
Mike - I have to agree on that one. Seems odd the French haven't put anything together given they seem to "own" the off-shore races. Also, they could have used the Extreme 40's and then a lot of teams could have played.

I guess this extreme pis contest between the two "super-rich" is intended to see who is/has the biggest one. To that end I will agree it is too bad. Heck - even the C-Class catamarans get several challengers for their event. I am disappointed as well.
Dick L. is offline Find More Posts by Dick L.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2009, 12:07 PM
k4s
Registered User
Joined Aug 2009
391 Posts
Only in recent times has the Americas Cup challenger been selected from a multi boat fleet.
The first races where the other way around with the fleet being the defenders.
Funnily enough a new breed of boat with a fine ,pointy bow started a revolution amongst a race fleet of blunt nosed water pushers.Designers fell over themselves to copy what was ,at the time something in a different league with regard to speed and handling.
k4s is offline Find More Posts by k4s
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2009, 07:09 PM
k4s
Registered User
Joined Aug 2009
391 Posts
Gone from pushing water to slicing thru it

Square rigger is a representation of the fat end up front going back to a tapering stern.

Next pic is of the first America alongside the latest challenger.
k4s is offline Find More Posts by k4s
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 18, 2009, 03:59 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2002
1,860 Posts
It simply is not possible for a displacement hull to "slice" through water. If you read about aerodynamcs and particularly yacht design. "Slicing through the water" has been an evocative myth since before Noah.

A fixed displacement has a corresponding wetted surface area. It doesn't matter how fine the bow is at some point the boat must present the rest of the volume required to support the weight of the boat.

There is very little merit in presenting two different styles of boat to argue that I, nature and the laws of aerodynamics are wrong. Here are a set of lines for an Ocean going boat designed to "slice through the water" These lines are well over 1000 years old long before the Elizabethan tub. viewed in isolation they look very moden, nice slim entry to slice through the water, beamy midships to cary the load, and a fantasically slender stern for minimum drag. However in order to carry a handkerchief of sail the designer had to start loading his beautiful boat full of rocks to give him some stability, all those beautiful lines went to waste. It didn't slice through the water it pitched and rolled just like every other displacement hull because the design was compromised by sail area and stability.
Robert May is offline Find More Posts by Robert May
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter, general quadrocopter, x-ufo discussion tend2it Multirotor Talk 2529 Apr 26, 2008 08:45 PM
Discussion Kong Power Packs Info And General Discussion nitroshark Batteries and Chargers 10 Jan 13, 2008 12:33 AM
Discussion Kong Power Packs Info And General Discussion nitroshark Batteries and Chargers 32 Jan 03, 2008 04:02 PM
Discussion General Discussion PLD Australia 172 Nov 27, 2006 11:26 PM
General Discussion / Training Area zax Site Chat 0 Oct 03, 2001 02:48 PM