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Old Mar 06, 2010, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by nick_75au View Post
So start a new class, Open One Metre. USA is easy to get new classes going, certainly much easier than here.

Nick
Nick

I'm not sure that the IOM class as it started has actually maintained a simple set of rules that have remained unchanged since inception.

In Oz as you would appreciate it is sometimes very hard to do almost anything, including getting the information requested. Even confirmation of Boat Registrations is almost impossible at times.



John
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 07:34 AM
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Perth Western Australia
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Hello All,

I started this thread many months ago to learn from others and talk about IOMs, a passion I have.
Over the last couple of days it has been turned into a slag fest by people, I feel i have been attacked on this thread and though PM by a certain person, i won't name names but I have had enough.

It ends NOW.

so lets all carry on with chating about my passion sailing IOMs

Sorry to say these things.

Mike
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 07:51 AM
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I apolgise if I have cause offence Mike, but my point about Mast rake and crude measurements are made to illustrate that a lot of rules of thumb are perpetuated and passed onto beginners to keep the front guys artificially at the front of the fleet.

I would take whatever boat of whatever age and would do just what you have done. The value of new bits is not coloured by the value of any other bit which is attached or sailing in close proximity to it.
Without knowing your exact placing or the competition you sail against you are probably not far off a consistant top placing and it is not knowing some of the stuff the top placers don't pass on that is keeping you in your place. I don't knock the front place guys for keeping their secrets but come from the view that I would rather improve anyone elses ability to give me a better run for my money.

Taking and recording a measurement from the top of the mast for each rig to a known and fixed point on the transom is the best way of tuning your boat and rig for individual sail conditions. If a top suit, 5 knot measurement is 1851mm on a particular day, the next time the conditions are the same the measurement ought to be 1851mm whenever the conditions are the same.

(1851mm might not be a valid measurement and was used to illustrate a point)
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 08:00 AM
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Very humble of you Mr May, I have enjoyed reading your posts and would love to sail with you one day, If I every make the UK ( good chance married in to well known West Aus family and the wife is a huge Coronation st Fan I think she thinks she is english) )
And please design a boat that you think could win the Worlds next year

Mike
AUS669
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 08:32 AM
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That the trouble Mike the hull has been designed for over 10 years but it is useles until I can use some of the changes we have discussed over the course of the thread. In the UK there is such a tight control over rc sailing that any discussion is just stiffled and it has taken the full duration of this thread to even get a slight acknowledgementof what I am trying to discuss.

I really am not here to disparage the class or anyones efforts but I will stand up and say how I think the hobby could become more unified rather than the sporadic regional divisions that currently exist. Restricting the rules favours those producing/selling good quality RTR boats, allowing rules to develop encourages people like Larry to have a go at home.

My build will cost me minimum of 3000 but why would I bother if I can pay 800 for a good boat like Tony's. I could buy one and do well in racing but 3/4 of my pleasure thinking, designing and building would be missing. 100% of the achievment would disappear.
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert May View Post
My build will cost me minimum of 3000 but why would I bother if I can pay 800 for a good boat like Tony's. I could buy one and do well in racing but 3/4 of my pleasure thinking, designing and building would be missing. 100% of the achievment would disappear.
Robert

There in lies the divide in Radio Sailing..

There are Modellers (the Tinkerers) & The Skipper who want to race..

Its not having a go at either, merely some like to design & develop while others like to win races.

Remember Vane Sailing... Mostly Modellers...
Todays Electronics.. Mostly Racers..

It's a constantly shifting sand.. As without fresh development in rigs & ways of doing things, all classes stagnate..

One needs the Other & Both need each other ...
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
Hi All,
This thread will be about IOM's, which means we can stop hijacking other peoples project's

Does anybody now how to lock this thread?

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
Hello All,

I started this thread many months ago to learn from others and talk about IOMs, a passion I have.
Mike
Mike

Put in a Sticky Request so that you can self moderate YOUR thread..

As per your request in Post #1..(above) I assume by Lock you mean you wish to monitor, select posts etc, have ownership & ultimate control for yourself. ???

Bit curious why it wasn't requested earlier.. Done Now.. Lets hope they follow thru for you.




TTFN

John
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 12:28 PM
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Hi all,

I am new to this part of RCgroups but if I may be allowed to make some comments of my own on the comments that I have read here.

Firstly, to give some background about me, I moved to Canada just about 10 yrs ago from Barbados. I have built from scratch at least 2 boats while I was in Barbados, both were supposed to be in the Soling class (strict one design) and one of my boats was said to have an advantage over the original boats because the hull was of a different shape to the original though the actual deck shape and waterline length were the same. At the time of building this boat it was done as a less expensive way of me getting into the hobby, and I was allowed to compete as I did not have the long term skill and experience of the other skippers in the fleet. Non-hobby circumstances caused me to drop out of the hobby and shortly after I was advised that the skippers had actually banned my boat from competing. Whatever the reason put forth, the hull was designed by a long time skipper in the same fleet and it truly sailed well.

I understand those that wish to keep very stringent rules so that some that have the financial means and or design ability do not disadvantage those that do not have that ability.

However we are all part of a hobby/fraternity that would not exist today if it was not for those forward thinking skippers/designers (both from full size and R/C) that developed the classes that we race in today.

There MUST always be either classes that in their own rules allow for innovation/continued design and or modifications to continue or we risk losing that continued growth of our hobby, or we may always be creating NEW classes each with their own very stringent rules.

I see the benefit to new entrants to the hobby, of stringent classes, because that keeps the cost to the new entrant down, but we should NEVER create a situation were we STIFLE creativity, otherwise our hobby will be the loser.

For my personal situation, I would enjoy competing with any much faster boat because it will geive me a higher sense of achievement when I finish closer to them than the last time and I will know that every so often the experiment will fail and I will have a chance to be head skipper without having to incur the financial nor time burden. Eventually those new design modifications will filter down to all aspects of this great hobby of ours.

I currently have 2 different one design boats here at home but because I cant find another skipper with a boat in this area I dont even have the opportunity to sail AGAINST someone, so who loses out in the end.

My apologies for being this long winded.

Sackie
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 01:29 PM
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this is an age old debate one design vs development classes. as it currently stands in the US most of the true develpment classes are pretty stagnent/dead. The M, 10R classes are almost dead. Why, it is really expensive to build a boat, then it is potentially obsolete once some one comes out with a new design. this also discourages mass production as no one wants to invest in tooling for a boat that may be obsolete tomorrow. This keep prices high for new boats as they tend to be hand built. One good design can quickly destroy a fleet.
One designs pop up every week since manufacturers dont want to have to compete in existing classes and its easier to make rules that say everything on the boat has to be from the class approved mfg. Now you can tool up for mass production and prices come down. Look at the price of the micromajic, S1M, and Victoria. The down side is this dilutes the sailors for each class. Each club picks a different boat and you have thousands of sailors, but only 100 sailing any give boat. Same thing is happening in big boats.
The IOM is closer to a one design as very few variables can be changed. This was the intent of the original class rules. As people have tried to find loop holes to make improvments, more rules are written. The way I see it the more the boats are the same, more rules are needed. The more open the class, less rules are needed.
Personally I think a internation one design with a defined rig and hull shape, but allowing any mfg would really help the sport. IE the EC12 or star 45. Might even just define the max sail area as that would help make the boats less funky like the IOM with its defined rig area's.
I do have 2 IOM's so I can sail the biggest international class. although I will probably dual rate them as E class as well so I can sail in China.

John
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 04:14 PM
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To: Mr. R. May.

Dear Mr May,

I would be most grateful if you would reply to this previous post:

I think that you could do it with levers.

With a double arm, when full in, the jib controlling arm just touches a peg sticking up from the lever.
Add one click on the trim, lever moves over, other end of the lever also has a peg just touching the jib sheet, so this moves also, making a longer run for the jib sheet and bringing it in just a wee bit.
Still too much slot? make that two clicks.

If properly set up, mainsheet movement would be minimal

This should also weigh less than another servo.

There may be something in the rules that says you can't do this??

Edward.

The power of lateral thinking!!

Thank you in anticipation,
Edward.
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert May View Post
Morning all!

Nick Post 658 explained my reason for not wanting to sail Marbleheads. I

This thread is a place for open discussion about the rules of IOM and imo opinion a half a dozen blokes with a vested interests restricting information and making decisions based on the opinion of <25% existing owners isn't really a healthy constitution.

Dreamwakes and Robert, this thread is open to all, please help make this thread less boring or wasted by offering up a constructive on topic posts of your own.

For best part of three months I have been trying to open up discussion about the rules some folk think they are fine, I respect that, but no-one is coming up with a valid reason why consideration of rules change should not even be considered.

Mine and anyone elses suggestions for rule changes simply do not tilt the playingfield and do not remove the skill of a helm as a determining factor in the results. I appreciate ther are a few who simply could not or want to cope with a 3rd channel per my suggestion or would not want to buy a carbon fibre Hull, mast etc no-one is forcing them to but for the sake of the class and model yacht racing in general it is not healthy that there is such a widespread range of classes all very much along the same lines and sizes. Without a unique benefit of ownership IOM simply will not fulfill the hype that it promotes. The current rule set prevents development of the class. If you are all happy with that that is fine but don't be surprised when, as I predict you have to start sharing your ponds with another class that is succesful due to its less limiting rule set.
Well now, when this thread began I thought "great"!, as I had been considering building a IOM (never owned , built or raced one before), why: because it the the most widely raced class in NZ with many clubs , many venues and also because I could build one fairly cheaply, and given the fairly strict design limitations within the class rules then I should in theory be as competitive as my helmsman skills allow and not competetive as my boat will allow.

So I looked to this thread as a way of learning about construction ideas from bulb up..but so far all i have learned is I cannot have three servo's..(cheers Robert) and that there are a couple of users here who really do not like each other .

I for one do not want to waste my bandwidth trawling through pages of abuse and pointless information to find the gems of knowledge required to build a IOM.

Can i suggest we start a new thread entitled "IOM general discussion- a how and why guide for complete idiots". ( or is this what we already have).

BTW...With the view of diffusing any abuse towards myself in advance,I most sincerely apologize for any spelling, punctuation or grammatical errors contained within my post.

Gary
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 05:05 PM
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Does anyone have any suggestions on building a vang from scratch, currently I gave a couple of 4-40 ball links and an aluminium bracket bolted to the mast that I beleive is hanging up in places as I sail.

Nick
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 05:41 PM
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Dreamwakes, have you read through the two or three threads of IOM build logs? (search IOM build log in the sailboat forum). Check them out and ask questions! Do you have a boat under construction, or about to be?

Nick, I'm sure someone will chime in soon. I have always bought the Vang assy on my IOMs. You need the bottom attachment point to pivot easily while under load, and some sort of threaded adjustment. Remember that the vang cannot support the boom (push it up) when it is loose, so the boom attachment is usually a bent wire in a slot on the boom.
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 05:50 PM
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Nick,

Will try to get some photos of a vang/ gooseneck off an old rig i have it is home made from a length of aluminium section and a rigging screw.
Will try to post this arvo.

Mike
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Old Mar 06, 2010, 06:17 PM
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Nick,

Hope this helps
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Mike
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