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Old Feb 04, 2013, 01:26 AM
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ndeverell's Avatar
New Zealand, Northland, Totara North
Joined Jan 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FWAL View Post
Please don't think that I'm hijacking this thread. I just think it could be helpful to other DIY builders and prospective builders to show what can go wrong so they can hopefully avoid making the same mistakes!
Regarding the paint problem I think the most probable cause of the bubbles and subsequent cracking was that the Appliance spray was not compatible with the undercoat/primer. The undercoat was alkyd based and suitable for plastic, metal and wood surfaces, the spray was Halfords Appliance Gloss White which I had used directly onto epoxy resin before and had no problems.
The forming of the Fish Eyes in the resin is a little bit more difficult to identify. However, whilst searching for the cause the most common answer was surface contamination. This might be the cause but the surface had been completely wet sanded, cleaned with acetone and rinsed with fresh water to remove all traces of the previous paint finishes. I was using West onto West and have been working with this epoxy for over a year and haven't had any prior major problems with mixing curing etc.
I did add a suitable pigment to the epoxy resin. It is a polyester colour paste and despite being polyester it can definitely be added to epoxy, or at least that's what the website quotes. With this particular product the mix ratio is as little as 1%. To coat an IOM I find 18ml (0.61fl.oz) is more than enough so I only required 0.18ml (0.0061fl.oz a tiny amount) of pigment! However, perhaps it only takes this very small amount to effect the viscosity of the West resin to form the Fish eyes.
So at present I'm only slightly the wiser. After a lot of sanding the decks and freeboard have had their second coat of pigmented resin which went on slightly better but there are still small areas where fish eyes are evident. I started to give the wetted hull area it's first coat of pigmented resin but stopped very soon after as the dreaded fish eyes started forming almost instantaneously.
James Edwards of http://www.robotyachts.co.uk/ has contacted me since reading about my problems and offered some helpful advice which I'm extremely grateful of. James suggests that adding some colloidal silica will thicken up the pigmented resin and in doing so should prevent the fish eyes developing.
As I've said to James you live and learn and I'm certainly learning a lot during the final stages of this project!

This all sounds like not much fun!

I have found dry sanding 120g between west epoxy resin coats no problem
Just dust off with a clean brush and resin coat
I think you should be using an epoxy pigment
I have been doing this for years with no problem
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:08 AM
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ndeverell's Avatar
New Zealand, Northland, Totara North
Joined Jan 2013
123 Posts
D 2 Plug

Very difficult day today

I destroyed the yellow submarine

This boat has already been cut and modified
I put a new bow section on and dramatically improved the boat
It was fast but would not turn . The change to the bow made a big improvement.
So much so that I decided to use the boat as a plug for a mould so I can build identical glass boats.

A little bit hard to do as it was a beautiful balsa boat that was glassed both sides strong and down to weight

Anyway no sailing for a few weeks while I build the new ones!

Cheers Neil
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:44 AM
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KoneWone's Avatar
Germany
Joined Mar 2009
512 Posts
Craving

Quote:
Originally Posted by grigoris View Post
Hi guys, I would like to know how the boat is behaving in weak winds. Thanks Grigoris
I’m highly impressed with this Carving IOM, gives the feeling of confidence that exceeds my skill-set honestly, beautifully balanced with responsive helm that just settles into the groove so easy, no turbulence in her wake, very stable bow-up in A rig.

I got the boat with two set-ups, one is with bulb offset C.G roughly 20-25 mm behind C.B with over 300 grams ballast in front of the mast. Second option is with the bulb C.G on the C.B, need to move the ballast to find right boat balance again but I have never tried it, as the offset C.G seems as perfect to me.

This is the first day I had the boat in the water getting to know sailing in sheltered alcove her with one hand on the camera other on the sticks & sail tuning not as good as it could be. Was the only place I could take vid because once she got her head into the wind outside the cove .. she was gone ! had no chance to track her with my camera.

IOM - Carving No.3 (3 min 20 sec)


This vid probably the best indication of light wind performance, I don’t know what type of ballast set-up Luca had here but nose looks just little more down in the water and sail tuning is spot-on.

Carving (1 min 14 sec)


Luca won 2012 Italian IOM championship with Carving so it’s proven boat. One man’s opinion here but I believe it’s world class winning IOM.

Cheers Alan
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:00 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
4 Posts
Carving

Alan, are you located in Germany? If yes where? I live in Munich.

Grigoris
GER 512

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoneWone View Post
I’m highly impressed with this Carving IOM, gives the feeling of confidence that exceeds my skill-set honestly, beautifully balanced with responsive helm that just settles into the groove so easy, no turbulence in her wake, very stable bow-up in A rig.

I got the boat with two set-ups, one is with bulb offset C.G roughly 20-25 mm behind C.B with over 300 grams ballast in front of the mast. Second option is with the bulb C.G on the C.B, need to move the ballast to find right boat balance again but I have never tried it, as the offset C.G seems as perfect to me.

This is the first day I had the boat in the water getting to know sailing in sheltered alcove her with one hand on the camera other on the sticks & sail tuning not as good as it could be. Was the only place I could take vid because once she got her head into the wind outside the cove .. she was gone ! had no chance to track her with my camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIKinHduYCw

This vid probably the best indication of light wind performance, I don’t know what type of ballast set-up Luca had here but nose looks just little more down in the water and sail tuning is spot-on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ax9R4Ze0fY

Luca won 2012 Italian IOM championship with Carving so it’s proven boat. One man’s opinion here but I believe it’s world class winning IOM.

Cheers Alan
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 01:50 AM
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New Zealand, Northland, Totara North
Joined Jan 2013
123 Posts
The Plug

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Old Feb 05, 2013, 02:30 AM
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ndeverell's Avatar
New Zealand, Northland, Totara North
Joined Jan 2013
123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndeverell View Post
Very difficult day today

I destroyed the yellow submarine

This boat has already been cut and modified
I put a new bow section on and dramatically improved the boat
It was fast but would not turn . The change to the bow made a big improvement.
So much so that I decided to use the boat as a plug for a mould so I can build identical glass boats.

A little bit hard to do as it was a beautiful balsa boat that was glassed both sides strong and down to weight

Anyway no sailing for a few weeks while I build the new ones!

Cheers Neil
Hope you can see the winch inside

I just came home from sailing and cut the boat open

I guess I could of taken the winch off first!
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 03:04 AM
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KoneWone's Avatar
Germany
Joined Mar 2009
512 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigoris View Post
Alan, are you located in Germany? If yes where?
Yes ... in Heidelberg, and ocassionally sail with the Sprinta group in Bavaria (Bayern)
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 03:38 AM
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Germany
Joined Mar 2009
512 Posts
Yellow Submarine

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndeverell View Post
This boat has already been cut and modified I put a new bow section on and dramatically improved the boat It was fast but would not turn
Hi Neil, I’ve been following Vladislav Murnikov radical mono-hull SpeedDream project that has reverse shear wave-piercing bow, strongly resembling the hulls on AC multi-hulls, his comments on this type of bow design, I thought had lot of creditability & wanted to share.

“They have used them on multihulls for quite a while, but to my knowledge no one has used them on a monohull,” says Vladislav Murnikov. As to criticisms that having such a bow will encourage SpeedDream to bury its bow, Murnikov maintains that quite the opposite is true.

“So technically I am not taking volume off the bow, I am adding volume to it,” argues Murnikov. “Even though we have a sharp slender bow, in fact it has more buoyancy forward, not less.”

As to the upside-down shape of the bow section, where the widest part is low, tapering up towards the deck, the idea is that if this bow does bury then its shape will offer less resistance to popping out. Compare this with when a classic V-shaped bow buries, and water being scooped on deck can cause it to pitchpole. Murnikov adds: “The chance of this hull really going underwater is much smaller than a traditional hull."


Was not clear how your surgery changed the turning ability of the boat, but don't throw the baby out the window with the bath water ... I think there is something worthwhile exploring with the reverse bow, if you can get it right

Cheers Alan

Tow Tank Testing (1 min 37 sec)
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 04:32 AM
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New Zealand, Northland, Totara North
Joined Jan 2013
123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoneWone View Post
Hi Neil, I’ve been following Vladislav Murnikov radical mono-hull SpeedDream project that has reverse shear wave-piercing bow, strongly resembling the hulls on AC multi-hulls, his comments on this type of bow design, I thought had lot of creditability & wanted to share.

“They have used them on multihulls for quite a while, but to my knowledge no one has used them on a monohull,” says Vladislav Murnikov. As to criticisms that having such a bow will encourage SpeedDream to bury its bow, Murnikov maintains that quite the opposite is true.

“So technically I am not taking volume off the bow, I am adding volume to it,” argues Murnikov. “Even though we have a sharp slender bow, in fact it has more buoyancy forward, not less.”

As to the upside-down shape of the bow section, where the widest part is low, tapering up towards the deck, the idea is that if this bow does bury then its shape will offer less resistance to popping out. Compare this with when a classic V-shaped bow buries, and water being scooped on deck can cause it to pitchpole. Murnikov adds: “The chance of this hull really going underwater is much smaller than a traditional hull."


Was not clear how your surgery changed the turning ability of the boat, but don't throw the baby out the window with the bath water ... I think there is something worthwhile exploring with the reverse bow, if you can get it right

Cheers Alan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aio9c...layer_embedded
Thanks for this and totally agree with comments about the upside down shape compared to traditional V

No we have not given up!

The new bow has been very successful
before I cut the boat the it was very fast but the bow was digging in and the boat was not tracking with the wind very well and a little bit difficult to tack

The new bow has more rocker and fuller under water bow sections

The boat now is very fast in all conditions matching the Two v 8 we have at our club at Kerikeri

It is proving to be very fast in the chop with the boat not bouncing in the waves like the others

It is also interesting to see the boat not trip over the bow down wind and not slow when nosediving however it does trip when the water pressure hits the front of the jib when goose winged

We have not given up and are building three glass boats that we hope to go racing on the circuit

I'm just sad that I used my nice balsa boat for the plug!
cheers
Neil
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 04:18 PM
Silly Old Fart
CaptainBit's Avatar
New Zealand, Wellington, Masterton
Joined Mar 2006
219 Posts
Hey Neil, keep up the good work my friend. There are a number of us out here in cyber land following your progress. I felt you should know that. Best wishes.... Ian.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 05:32 PM
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Joined Sep 2012
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Carving

Hi Alan,

Please contact me at grigorisde@yahoo.de.

QUOTE=KoneWone;24038597]Yes ... in Heidelberg, and ocassionally sail with the Sprinta group in Bavaria (Bayern)[/QUOTE]
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Last edited by grigoris; Feb 05, 2013 at 05:36 PM. Reason: Wrong title
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 03:57 AM
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United Kingdom, London
Joined Jun 2005
822 Posts
this new IOM has not got a bow a drastic as the one in the video but it's on those lines.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 05:03 AM
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BAJAN SAIL 51's Avatar
Joined Nov 2011
94 Posts
Has any one heard of a problem shipping lead ballast out of Europe .one of our buddies just got his new fractal and the bulb was removed and sent back to the shipper and they were told that lead cant not be shipped,i know that there has been at least a dozen or more brit pops shipped from England and France with out a problem .if this is true traveling to regattas may become a thing of the past.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 05:14 AM
OlivierFRA100
FRA3700's Avatar
Joined Nov 2006
168 Posts
Very strange... I got my boat shipped with her bulb, no issue...

Bulb was in a separate package or with the boat?
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 06:00 AM
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8387mike's Avatar
Perth Western Australia
Joined Jul 2009
1,094 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniGe23 View Post
this new IOM has not got a bow a drastic as the one in the video but it's on those lines.
Is that your new destroyer tony?
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