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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:04 PM
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Perth Western Australia
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Not as fancy as some guys can do with a coumputer but this should show you what I mean.

But check the shaft first.

Mike
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:19 PM
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Jim,

When I referred to boat balance I should have explained better, I don't mean actual balance like front to rear weight balance I mean the balance of the rig to the boat. Such as a lot of weather helm that can make tacking or turning downwind at the weather mark very difficult. If you have too much weather helm the boat just wont turn properly and you have to us a lot of rudder to do certain maneuvers.

I a not suggesting that you do have too much helm but rather explaining why some boats seem to need a lot of torque to maneuver properly. I had a boat like and needed a strong servo.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by TedFlack View Post
Jim,

When I referred to boat balance I should have explained better, I don't mean actual balance like front to rear weight balance I mean the balance of the rig to the boat. Such as a lot of weather helm that can make tacking or turning downwind at the weather mark very difficult. If you have too much weather helm the boat just wont turn properly and you have to us a lot of rudder to do certain maneuvers.

I a not suggesting that you do have too much helm but rather explaining why some boats seem to need a lot of torque to maneuver properly. I had a boat like and needed a strong servo.
aha .. sorry i mis understood .. now I do, and YES i noticed once this boat also had some trouble steering out of a reach to a down wind mark too.. if there's a good breeze.. but normally is very responsive.. but i think the servo on in it now and the rudder design are both viable.. Thanks..Again Ted..
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
Not as fancy as some guys can do with a coumputer but this should show you what I mean.

But check the shaft first.

Mike
Mike, yes understand now.. thanks.. I will try to trace the "Cut along here" line 1st on the rudder itself too, doing that 1st will really help getting it fit right the 1st time.. ..Wish me luck..
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 11:44 PM
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Rudder Reshaping- Done

OK so the new servo came in and I re-shaped the rudder this evening. This is the before / after and a couple in between shots of the process.. i think I need a new rudder.. I was afraid to do the second of the two steps needed once it was re-shaped with the dremel tool...: 1st straighten top segment of the shaft to the original bend point, and then 2nd bend it at the new base 1/4 inch below the original bend in it.. I was too chicken to bend it properly flush to the top of the new rudder base now because I would not be able to sail the boat if the rudder fin cracked off..I can see the fiberglass around the shaft starting to flex, and was about to crack.. Sadly the centering issue and buzz is still there with the new servo also.. ..so I'll live with it till I get a new rudder since it is not the rod access hole or servo arm rod hole binding that causes the buzz .. it's the combination of the drag from those two things and the slight bend at the base of the rudder shaft that is out-of-round to the angle of the rudder causing it.. because of that bend that is not yet in the shaft I can' t get the top of the rudder completely flush with the hull either..but all of it is better than it was so I consider it progress.

John you were right .. the prior owner placed this bend in the shaft to keep the lower tip of the fin from extending past the transom and lengthening the boat. JimS
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:50 AM
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The easiest way to correct the rudder fit to the bottom of the boat is to put your wife's cling film wrap over the rudder shaft hole on the bottom of the boat,install the rudder in the boat by punching through the film with the rudder shaft now the boat becomes a mould,use some filler of your desire carbon would be best as it's black,when dry remove and sand the sides.Make shure this is all done on the kitchen table for best results.Jim your rudder shaft certainly looks bent in the photo or am i seeing an illusion?
I have been looking at these HiTec waterproof servos and have noticed that only the mini is rated @ 4.8-6v the other two are 6-7.4v so they are HiVoltage servos so be aware your Rx power rail is 2s lipo compatible,RMG only puts out 5 volts.Only the very modern radios are capable of this voltage on the servo rail.Are you guys getting them to work on low voltage??
P.s having read you post grab the shaft with a vise grip and straighten it,it's S/S and it wont break your only bending it slightly.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:09 PM
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The easiest way to correct the rudder fit to the bottom of the boat is to put your wife's cling film wrap over the rudder shaft hole on the bottom of the boat,install the rudder in the boat by punching through the film with the rudder shaft now the boat becomes a mould,use some filler of your desire carbon would be best as it's black,when dry remove and sand the sides.Make shure this is all done on the kitchen table for best results.Jim your rudder shaft certainly looks bent in the photo or am i seeing an illusion?
I have been looking at these HiTec waterproof servos and have noticed that only the mini is rated @ 4.8-6v the other two are 6-7.4v so they are HiVoltage servos so be aware your Rx power rail is 2s lipo compatible,RMG only puts out 5 volts.Only the very modern radios are capable of this voltage on the servo rail.Are you guys getting them to work on low voltage??
P.s having read you post grab the shaft with a vise grip and straighten it,it's S/S and it wont break your only bending it slightly.
Hi Tug,

I love this. Great point on the HiVoltage spec ..

what the heck is my ".. wife's cling film wrap".. ?? is it like this stuff?

http://www.amazon.com/Grafix-9-Inch-...ling+film+wrap

I'm sorry but i don't undertsnd why I'd need to mould anything

i did use a large channel lock /vise grip to try to make both bends.. and was able to straighten the original bend out pretty well ( see picture in upper left) , but when i grip close to the base and bent it there i only got about 1/2 as far as needed at the new cut line.. there was a distinct bubble forming in the outer fiberglass around the hole so i know something's about to give.. i will try to fix it again once I find and receive a spare rudder with a 4mm shaft ( need to look for one (or see if i can use an ODOM rudder, i have a couple of them ) ... I was thinking i should try to get a steel tube with a thick wall and 4mm inner diameter and grip that tube with the vice grips before trying to re-bend it at the base again...I completely agree this is where it's binding the servo most .. right at the base of the rudder shaft.. and it's why the servo wont center either.. if i pull it out 1/8th inch .. it will but I need the fin to be as close to the hull contour as possible and the gaps too large as-is..

the 1st pic in the upper left is after straightening out the original bend you see in 3967 ( to the right), ( both picts were taken after i cut off the top along the cut line) but the real problem is in trying to bend it right up close near the new cut line a 1/4 inch closer to the fin.. when I try, I can see it's very close to cracking the fiber glass, but am encouraged now to hear it shouldn't crack..it .. and not woried i will crack off the rudder shaft at all..
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:25 PM
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what the heck is my ".. wife's cling film wrap".. ?? ..
Wow can have lotta fun with that one liner but this is a family show right !?
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:49 PM
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Glad wrap(clear plastick clings to itself)used to wrap food i dont know what else to call it and i'll bet your wife has some in the kitchen.Lay it on the boat and push the rudder in through the wrap,if you now put a filler on the top of the rudder it cannot stick to the boat because the wrap is there when dry it will be a perfect fit as it has conformed to the shape of the boat,just sand down the sides to a smooth finish the rudder will now fit exactly to the shape of the hull as you have used the bottom of the boat as a mould.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:50 PM
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Wow can have lotta fun with that one liner but this is a family show right !?
I'm keeping out of that one pal.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Hi Tug,

I love this. Great point on the HiVoltage spec ..

what the heck is my ".. wife's cling film wrap".. ?? is it like this stuff?

http://www.amazon.com/Grafix-9-Inch-...ling+film+wrap

I'm sorry but i don't undertsnd why I'd need to mould anything

i did use a large channel lock /vise grip to try to make both bends.. and was able to straighten the original bend out pretty well ( see picture in upper left) , but when i grip close to the base and bent it there i only got about 1/2 as far as needed at the new cut line.. there was a distinct bubble forming in the outer fiberglass around the hole so i know something's about to give.. i will try to fix it again once I find and receive a spare rudder with a 4mm shaft ( need to look for one (or see if i can use an ODOM rudder, i have a couple of them ) ... I was thinking i should try to get a steel tube with a thick wall and 4mm inner diameter and grip that tube with the vice grips before trying to re-bend it at the base again...I completely agree this is where it's binding the servo most .. right at the base of the rudder shaft.. and it's why the servo wont center either.. if i pull it out 1/8th inch .. it will but I need the fin to be as close to the hull contour as possible and the gaps too large as-is..

the 1st pic in the upper left is after straightening out the original bend you see in 3967 ( to the right), ( both picts were taken after i cut off the top along the cut line) but the real problem is in trying to bend it right up close near the new cut line a 1/4 inch closer to the fin.. when I try, I can see it's very close to cracking the fiber glass, but am encouraged now to hear it shouldn't crack..it .. and not woried i will crack off the rudder shaft at all..
I'm not suggesting to break it out of the rudder sideways that's too much damage,but if you could get the shaft to come out to replace it with a new one it's dead easy,just flatten the sides that go into the blade and 2 drops of west system epoxy.When you glue in the new shaft do the filler as well same time with the cling wrap in place two birds with one stone,you can adjust the angle of the shaft and get the top of the blade to fit the boat perfectly all at once.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:37 PM
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If you put the shaft in a vise heat the shaft with a cigarette lighter and it will soften the epoxy to get it out easy while not causing damage the heat will travel down the shaft but dont go melt it now just heat it good .It's just a glued in shaft
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by The Tug View Post
If you put the shaft in a vise heat the shaft with a cigarette lighter and it will soften the epoxy to get it out easy while not causing damage the heat will travel down the shaft but dont go melt it now just heat it good .It's just a glued in shaft
Tug,
again.. great tip..I will do this shaft extraction and then try to bend the shaft at the cut line properly once the shaft is removed. it will be a lot easier that way. But i think you are also saying (above) i should be able to simply redrill the shaft hole at the right angle, re-test the fit, and and then spread the tapered bottom end of the shaft, and re-glue it back into the fin without any more bending needed. If so that would be best.. I now have almost full 1/4 inch of bare shaft sticking out above the servo control arm .. so can afford to sink it in a bit deeper into the fin instead.

I love sailing this IOM so I'd prefer to get a new rudder before i try to fix this one..(incase I screw up) by the way.. if I simply put the keel on, and set the boat on flat ground.. if the bottom rear tip of the fin now extends past the transom .. I may need to cut it across the top (again) a little more to correct that .. correct? Either that or set the new hole back about 1/8th inch that I think is now hanging past the boat's stern. Fun Stuff.. Thanks again for the help JimS
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 07:30 PM
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Perth Western Australia
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
I love sailing this IOM so I'd prefer to get a new rudder before i try to fix this one..(incase I screw up) by the way.. if I simply put the keel on, and set the boat on flat ground.. if the bottom rear tip of the fin now extends past the transom .. I may need to cut it across the top (again) a little more to correct that .. correct? Either that or set the new hole back about 1/8th inch that I think is now hanging past the boat's stern. Fun Stuff.. Thanks again for the help JimS
It depends on how it sits along the water line not on the ground, this due to the rocker in the hull you might find it sits up in the bow and the rudder is then inside the transom.
I have had a boat that the rudder looks like it protudes past the transom by a couple of mm's but once in the water it was just inside the transom
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 07:36 PM
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I suggest getting a new 4mm shaft and yes drill it so it fits right.Then get the wifes glad cling film and fix the fit as well.Do not move the shaft from it's location as it's balanced.
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