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Old Nov 13, 2012, 05:19 AM
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Perth Western Australia
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Is it just me or is everything that everyone sails with give me problems, I had a Hitec rudder servo up until 3 weeks ago it failed at the start of a sailing day ( it now lives at the bottom of the lake). Before this I have always used hobby king cheapies with no problem, know I have a JD Pro living in there what a great servo.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post

I had a Hitec rudder servo up until 3 weeks ago it failed at the start of a sailing day ( it now lives at the bottom of the lake)...
Wouldn't admit to that one.. The Greenies are watching...
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tug,
Agreed, but the rudder, with no control arm attached spins easily in the shaft, I did replace the arm and drilled the hole for the rod only slightly, so that is a little snug yes,.. but I want it that way to keep the linkage free play down.. that leaves this little rubber hull access tube, and I will try to lubricate it a little with some silicon lube.. or it's the centering failure in the servo itself causing the intermittent buzz.. I want to see if it persists with the new servo before worrying about it but I do completely agree it's not normal, and that while it's buzzing, I know the servo is draining my battery quickly. ( I don't want to risk replacing that access tube but that's where the drag is now)

by the way if you look to the right of and above the control arm you will see where I think a little water got into the boat last time out.. thru that slight air gap under the clear laminating film.. I believe that lifted slightly last time out.. .. I will be replacing it soon too..

Thanks.. JimS
You need to check if the rudder is right up against the bottom of the boat and if so that's where you prob have a bind,either sand it or install the rudder lower so there's no contact.The other place to look is where the pushrod exit's the deck.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 09:21 AM
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USA, CA, San Diego 92120
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Originally Posted by The Tug View Post
You need to check if the rudder is right up against the bottom of the boat and if so that's where you prob have a bind,either sand it or install the rudder lower so there's no contact.The other place to look is where the pushrod exit's the deck.
Sorry these picts are so poorly focused.. you can't see it, but yes there is an air-gap I can slide a sheet of paper thru on the forward edge of this rudder.. there is also a HUGE gap I would like to get rid of on the AFT side of the rudder. I would look into replacing it, but am not sure how you order a rudder that will meet the contour of the bottom of the hull properly as it depends I'm sure on the rudder post's angle. If I were to file down the front face of this rudder to make it match the hull contour better.. would I risk doing anything to make the boat illegal? which would be better for boat speed and handling .. having a rudder 1/4th inch shorter in depth.. or one left as is and with the resultant drag I assume this gap creates?
as for the pushrod exit.. I did lube it and the buzzing problem is a lot less. I shuld have a replacement servo in soon..
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by waboats View Post
Grzy

I have been trying to get some of these to do some testing.. Especially the Mini version..

http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/ser...vos/index.html

Click on each for specs..

Cheers

John
I wish there was a waterproof one with specs right in the middle of these two. I'd probably get it if there was.. 50 oz/inch in the smaller one may be a little weak. and the other two are a bit too big and heavy at 60 grams tho each has twice the torque of the Futaba S3004 I believe and Ted's had good luck with it at 57 oz/inch.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
there is an air-gap I can slide a sheet of paper thru on the forward edge of this rudder.. there is also a HUGE gap I would like to get rid of on the AFT side of the rudder. I would look into replacing it, but am not sure how you order a rudder that will meet the contour of the bottom of the hull properly as it depends I'm sure on the rudder post's angle. If I were to file down the front face of this rudder to make it match the hull contour better.. would I risk doing anything to make the boat illegal?
Hi Jim,
I suggest filing down the front of the blade to fit to the hull and see how it goes. You will not make the boat illegal by trimming the rudder.

Cutting off more of the top to line up the aft portion may cut too much off the rudder that supports the shaft. If the shaft goes a long way down, then trim the top to fit.

To order a new rudder (that looks like a Dave Creed rudder), measure the shaft diameter (probably 4mm) and order one, then trim the top to fit the hull...this is quite normal. When building ahull, you can set the tube to match the shaft, but still may need to trim the top of the blade. The think to watch is to not let the rudder extend beyond the transom as it could make the boat measure too long.

John
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 11:19 AM
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United States, CA, Alameda
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GPZY,
Using the 5646 with a lipo battery in the boat with 7.4 volts going to both the RMG and the rudder servo. I have had issues with the futaba 3004 servo that I was using. If anyone is looking for a pikanto, mine is for sale. Ryan
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waboats View Post
Grzy

I have been trying to get some of these to do some testing.. Especially the Mini version..

http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/ser...vos/index.html

Click on each for specs..

Cheers

John
Tried these the case is slightly larger than a standard servo also too heavy and worse of all there slow as hell! everything you don't want in an IOM

you guessed I put it on Ebay!
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 12:45 PM
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P.s

The 7 BOR is planked and sanded, more photo's and info here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=340972
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hiljoball View Post
Hi Jim,
I suggest filing down the front of the blade to fit to the hull and see how it goes. You will not make the boat illegal by trimming the rudder.
.......
John
Thanks John,
Great.. I'll try shaping this rudder.. now's a good time since it hasn't been measured yet. If I screw it up I can get another one.. wish I knew how far the 4mm shaft runs into it but I've no metal detector and it's not transparent but I think there is little risk I will grind too much off the front and back. Far more risk that i grind the shaft by accident in the process tho.. .. Hope I can find that circular stone grinder since I haven't used it in years.. and this is a bit much for my dremel tool..
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
I wish there was a waterproof one with specs right in the middle of these two. I'd probably get it if there was.. 50 oz/inch in the smaller one may be a little weak. and the other two are a bit too big and heavy at 60 grams tho each has twice the torque of the Futaba S3004 I believe and Ted's had good luck with it at 57 oz/inch.
Could take a page from the model warship combat guys and waterproof the servo. If they can sink ships in 6' of water and have the servo still operating after the boat is recovered, then what little water we get in the hull will not even cause a servo twitch. Heh.

Waterproofing methods vary. The one I use is a coating of 3m Scotchcoat (a conformal coating) on the servo's circuit board. Easy to apply by taking the bottom of the servo case off, gently tugging the circuit board out enough to brush the coating on, then putting it all back together. Add some lithium grease in the gear end of the servo and perhaps a small O-ring around the servo output shaft, and we have a servo that can withstand submersive dunks for extended periods of time. Best of all, it can be done to any servo, so pick the one we like best for our boat.
I also treat receivers to a coat of Scotchcoat and have never had one fail.

A note on coatings: coatings such as Plastidip and liquid/spray rubber tape are NOT good. Eventually these two coatings will start to separate from the component they are "protecting" and will allow water to seep between the coating and the board. That seepage is very difficult to remove with the usual alcohol dunks or other methods typically used to remove moisture and will eventually cause the electrical components to fail due to corrosion. Always try to use a conformal coating that will remain stuck to the object it is protecting and prevent seepage.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 04:34 PM
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A couple of comments:

I got the idea using the 3004 from Brad Gibson, couldn't believe it myself but I put them in two new Bripops and have not had any trouble. For $12.00 I'll probably throw them away and put new ones in for next season. If a boat is so far out of balance it needs more torque than a 3004 the boat needs to have the balance fixed not a stronger servo. Plus I run mine on 5.0 volts which is even less torque.

I have had a cheap servo burn up darn near instantly when using more than 6 volts, I use Lipo (7.4 volts or 8.4 at peak) and all I do is send it to the RMG first and use the 5 volts coming out of the RMG as power to the receiver and steering servo.

Anytime I have tried to waterproof a servo with something like Plastidip I made the problem worse, it just holds moisture in. I have seen guys drill holes in the servo case and let water and or air into the servo and just spray the heck out of the servo with Corrosion X, that seems to work. Of course the best idea is to keep water out of the hull, that is what I do now.

Jim-I'm pretty sure you will have plenty of shaft into the rudder if you want to cut it down to fit. Perhaps your rudder shaft is bent causing the rudder to not fit, and that may be causing the bind which is making your servo buzz, just bent it so that the rear fits better. Usually the shaft is soft stainless and bends easy. Mr Tug told me that once when my sons boat hit the dock and bent the hell out of the shaft, I though he was nuts but it worked fine.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedFlack View Post
A couple of comments:

I got the idea using the 3004 from Brad Gibson, couldn't believe it myself but I put them in two new Bripops and have not had any trouble. For $12.00 I'll probably throw them away and put new ones in for next season. If a boat is so far out of balance it needs more torque than a 3004 the boat needs to have the balance fixed not a stronger servo. Plus I run mine on 5.0 volts which is even less torque.

I have had a cheap servo burn up darn near instantly when using more than 6 volts, I use Lipo (7.4 volts or 8.4 at peak) and all I do is send it to the RMG first and use the 5 volts coming out of the RMG as power to the receiver and steering servo.

Anytime I have tried to waterproof a servo with something like Plastidip I made the problem worse, it just holds moisture in. I have seen guys drill holes in the servo case and let water and or air into the servo and just spray the heck out of the servo with Corrosion X, that seems to work. Of course the best idea is to keep water out of the hull, that is what I do now.

Jim-I'm pretty sure you will have plenty of shaft into the rudder if you want to cut it down to fit. Perhaps your rudder shaft is bent causing the rudder to not fit, and that may be causing the bind which is making your servo buzz, just bent it so that the rear fits better. Usually the shaft is soft stainless and bends easy. Mr Tug told me that once when my sons boat hit the dock and bent the hell out of the shaft, I though he was nuts but it worked fine.
Ted,
as is usual with me, you ask or answer one question and i ask a dozen more.. i am sorry to do this cause i do appreciate and respect your advice and that of everyone else here.. and thank you all for it.. i agree servo buzz is a BAD thing.. and I'll eliminate it once i get a new servo that centers properly in place .. cause any buzz is not good.

I'll also look carefully at the shaft itself to see if it's bent I've only glanced at it a couple times and it looked fine but I'll make sure.. I am afraid however that I may crack the mounting post base glue or the hull if I try bending it in place, so am reluctant to bend it back so far, I will see about filing it down to fit the hull contour better especially on the FWD top edge. and may simply taper the AFT top edge to round it and taper it to look more like the lower surface is tho. it depends on how easily I can file it manually or control the grinding with a dremel or grinding wheel one.

As to Boat Balancing.. as a function of servo weight .. makes sence and if i can get my boat into a float tank i will add a little more weight onto the soft patch and see how it responds.. right now my HS-645MG is 107 Oz/Inch at 4.8 vdc (basically the RMG's output voltage and it weighs 2.11oz (60g) ( heavier than I thought) so if I switch to a lighter one I'd worry about be nose-diving.. but the 3004 is 57g so essentially the same weight right?

I have been using 3M liquid polyvynil tape on both servo leads and on my Assan RCVR and I agree with MMangus that it can peel once it hardens with a little flex.. but I do need to take the servo leads off the Rx occasionally so I've just been recoating as needed.. the last tim I was in to a servo to change a gear i coiuls never get it to work properly so for me I just let Hitec fixit for free and use a spare in the interim.. One thing I would mention tho is servo leads that are twisted pairs need to have the liquid painted into and between the center of all three temp-untwisted pairs at the ends so they stop the salt water from wicking up into the servo or RCVR three pin connector itself.. This IOM boat hasn't had any water in it to speak of beyond a couple drops, but my ODOM did once and i found out about black-wire the hard way..

Question.. is the rudder servo lead long enough to reach the receiver in a typical IOM? I am assuming it's not, and that there is an extension that is in line and that it's been sealed at the 1/2 way point .. When i go to replace it.. i guess I must simply pull the lead all the way out from thr Radio compartment with a string tied on the end again, ( lilke i did with the RMG) and then fish the new one back in place once I reconnect to the Servo extension wire .. correct?

Good points every one.. Thanks very much ... Again: Regards, JimS
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:58 PM
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Perth Western Australia
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Jim,

Put a spacer on the hull that just meets the top back of the rudder curve it so it matches the hull, mark the fin along this line then cut with a dremel this will make the fin match the curve in the hull if any. I will try to draw what I mean and post it.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 8387mike View Post
Jim,

Put a spacer on the hull that just meets the top back of the rudder curve it so it matches the hull, mark the fin along this line then cut with a dremel this will make the fin match the curve in the hull if any. I will try to draw what I mean and post it.
Cool idea and tip .. Thanks Mike.. lookin fwd to seeing it.. Regards, JimS
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