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Old Jan 11, 2010, 07:11 PM
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I have been looking to buy an 'A' Class yacht for the coming season and today was offered a Sweet 9 with twin winches, Robert have you seen 'A'Class boats use them as I'm not too sure what the seller was telling me that the TX had twin sticks I presume both sticks on the transmitter is used but one of them will be self centreing won't it
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 07:19 PM
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Sydney, Australia
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Hi all,

just caught up with discussions. A new 1 metre class to replace IOMs. Sounds like a major project. There are other 1m boats already, but they are not as popular here as IOMs. USOMs and ODOMs. I've built 4 USOMs and they all sailed brilliantly. Easy to rig, tune and sail. Nothing like an IOM.

Dick L. -- you mentioned Claudio's build log for his "Delta Rig". A very clever piece of workmanship. Claudio is some kind of RC boat guru. Building a fleet of IACC120 boats for international racing regattas. And he supplies all the plans and building advice free. His technique of moulding using plastic packing tape and household garbage bags. The guy is amazing. Making a fin and rudder in the morning ready to race that afternoon. And his bulb making using 1mm thick lead sheet. He has more techniques than anyone I have seen. Well worth following all his threads including those in Italian. From memory he used to post here but has since stayed at RCSailing.

Here is one of the many build diagrams Claudio has posted --



And this is a link to the thread --

DELTA RIG BUILD


FUXIA

The IACC120 build is also great reading if you are a boat builder --

IACC120 LINK

The boats are 1.2m LOA and are copies of real AC12 boats. Being European they pay particular attention to boat decoration . So the boats tend to look classy as well.




Larry L.
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Old Jan 11, 2010, 07:30 PM
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Sydney, Australia
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Speaking of IOMs,

after 3 weeks of building I have just finished my second Noux2. As yet no maiden voyage but that will happen soon. Now I have a boat to compare with for race tuning.
Next -- start on a Maximuss MkII mould.

Larry
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick L. View Post
My personal opinion regarding the extra servo ...... I like it, as it seems like I'm sailing a big boat.

Mine being on a multihull, a second (jib) servo can be used to backwind the jib and help push bows over during a tack in stronger winds. Upwind, playing the jib with it's smaller sail area seems to unload the power as dumping the main does, but coming back on to full throttle is faster than cranking in and trying to replicate the optimum mainsail location, relative to the boat. It is a lot of fun, and easy to see when the jib starts inward and suddenly the optimum slot is achieved. A slight added heel to the boat, and with the lack of lead weight, the boat just seems to rocket away.
That's two of us now, Robert and Dick are revolting! The radio price issue all those years back is what stopped my competitive model yachting. At the end of the 70's, the last winter of discontent period, we simply could not afford luxuries such as a new boat. I worked for 2 years in a boatyard saving up for a two channel "Fleet" set. This was my point to the MYA 10 years ago. There is no longer any justification for the 2 servo rule on the basis of cost. What I and they will realise if they read this thread is that good people ARE not bothering with IOM. As the little boy in the crowd said, "oooh mummy why is the king naked?"
I came back to model yatching in September when I retired and until the beginning of December had been fiddling in the garage. Since Mike kicked this thread off and it has taken me all over the internet discovering that really talented yacht modellers just aren't bothering with IOM. I assume you have seen the scale Open 70 Volvo boats 1070mm long, seriously fantastic.
Once I have replied to you and Tony I am looking forward to reading up on those AC120s, (the pencil rudder caught my eye stright away) My point is, and I am not knocking the MYA or anyone else, is that there could quite easily be a sponsorship deal done with a Volvo, A one design Volvo IOM class able to race alongside standard IOMs courtesy of few minor IOM rule changes. It is easy to imagine how a Strict one design IOM Volvo racer could be seriously popular and bring a fair few of the RC Laser helms over to IOM.
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Last edited by Robert May; Jan 12, 2010 at 12:55 AM. Reason: Accused wrong Ozzie of starting the thread, call the hitmen back it wasn't Larry
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniGe23 View Post
I have been looking to buy an 'A' Class yacht for the coming season and today was offered a Sweet 9 with twin winches, Robert have you seen 'A'Class boats use them as I'm not too sure what the seller was telling me that the TX had twin sticks I presume both sticks on the transmitter is used but one of them will be self centreing won't it
Could be a multiplex set with sliders instead of Gimbals. An "A" class is a big beast to lug about and store, have you got a Volvo Estate or an A6?
I am not sure about two winches, 1 winch and a jib trimming servo would be my preferred choice for a boomed jib. Both sails would haul in and out as per your IOM on the winch but an arm servo on the jib sheet operated by a a Flap or AUX lever on the side of your transmitter would give you neutral, sheeted in or eased out positions for your jib. Once you know your boat, a three position flight mode switch could be set up. Beat, reach, run.

I have to do a weather check right now but will post a diagram later.
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 01:08 AM
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Sydney, Australia
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Go Mr. May !!! Start the revolution .

Back to more mundane matters. My new Turborix 2.4 GHz 6CH gear just arrived from Hong Kong. Took 2 weeks to arrive as they said it would . Perfect timing to use with my new Noux2.

My initial impressions are; I can't beleive the quality at the price! Cost me $AU42. Came with software on CD, USB cable connection, 2 peice Rx, binding plug and excellent packaging. Downside is had no manual and the software is atrocious. "This will give you much happiness and joy".
Also was not "bound" so I had to spend a minute to link Tx to Rx. Instruction manual is a 22 page download PDF file. Does help. I did find an excellent link for a YouTube video showing correct installation of software.

LINK

Being computer literate is pretty vital. Took me some time to work out I wanted CH1 and CH3 out of the 6 channels. And also what COMM Port to use. All up I've spent about 2 hours getting the gear sorted and installed. Now the "End-Points" on my drum servo mainsail winch finish at full on and 90 degrees out. Unlike previously where I had to guess a half way mark, to a safe sails out position. Mine are now digitized.
The radio still has manual trim for rudder. And you can save various settings for different boats. Problem is you need to connect radio to computer to load saved settings. But at $42 who cares. This is a programmeable radio at 2.4GHz. No conflicts with other frequencies.
All in all I'm happy as Larry .

Larry.
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 02:14 AM
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I know you are off to bed in a while Larry but I have to go and sort out a Sound system on a big scale BF 110 my mate is putting together so haven't got time right now to post about your boat (nice work! will have to do for now) and the AC120 my bet is those lines aren't too far off the Riptide certainly the stern is a lot narrower than an Open 70.

Computer radios, I love to spend hours working out the possibilities. It a shame the Waveney isn't further progressed the programming for that was real fun.

3 winches, all mix coupled, 2 for the genoa. Triiming, tacking and backing a loose footed genoa that overlaps the mast. It doesn't matter that I haven't got anyone to race the challenge is in the achievement. Eeek late now.
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 06:41 AM
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Simple jib trimmer

As promised Tony explanation of a simple trimmable jib for the A class you are thinking of buying.
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Last edited by Robert May; Jan 12, 2010 at 06:52 AM. Reason: error in text on drawing
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 06:56 AM
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Perth Western Australia
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Watched a show on Foxtel (pay TV) a couple of weeks ago called Wind Driven, had that same jib trim on a Mablehead, the Gentleman was English, that wasn't you was it Mr May?
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 07:04 AM
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Not me, I am too shy to be on the telly box. I have a horrid stammer that pops out of nowhere whenever I have to talk to an audience. Other than the one I have in the loft I haven't seen a Marblehead for 20+ years. That is such a simple an ovious modifiaction, so simple that I am surprised that Graupner , Horizon or whoever don't have a servo box that just drops into rectangluar hole in the deck and supply a pulley block as a complete trimming kit.

That is another chestnut of mine, Model yachting doesn't seem to be in the queue when it come to new radio gear, A digital programmable winch for IOM weighing 75g would be a good start. 180 - 2520 degrees set through ATV on the transmitter. My JR 9x has all the programming functions I need but I have to put up with Aeroplane or Helicopter terminology. I haven't looked for a Yachtsman radio with 9 or 10 channels, if there is one I would be delighted to have a look at the spec.

A copy of that set that Larry has just treated himself to might have to come to North Devon for a review.
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Last edited by Robert May; Jan 12, 2010 at 07:24 AM.
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrykin View Post

Dick L. -- you mentioned Claudio's build log for his "Delta Rig". A very clever piece of workmanship. Claudio is some kind of RC boat guru. Building a fleet of IACC120 boats for international racing regattas. And he supplies all the plans and building advice free. His technique of moulding using plastic packing tape and household garbage bags. The guy is amazing. Making a fin and rudder in the morning ready to race that afternoon. And his bulb making using 1mm thick lead sheet. He has more techniques than anyone I have seen. Well worth following all his threads including those in Italian. From memory he used to post here but has since stayed at RCSailing.

Larry L.
Thanks you for that Larry! 4 enjoyable hours later.
Look at the back end of those boats and there is not a single indication of weather helm in any photograph posted there. One photo of a boat, well heeled, does have a slight stir showing but closer inspection shows that it was being turned to port.

I was wondering if anyone here has CAD lofting software. I have been giving some more thought to the Riptide 1 m project. A set of formers in a file format suitable for the Laser cutting guys might be a solution to providing a self jigging mould for a moulded 1/32 ply or balsa hull. The work involved in photo mounting and cutting out 3mm mdf formers is quite an effort. A quick set of parts in liteply which simply slot together is what I have in mind.
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Last edited by Robert May; Jan 12, 2010 at 11:24 AM.
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 03:17 PM
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Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert May View Post
I was wondering if anyone here has CAD lofting software.....
A set of formers in a file format suitable for the Laser cutting guys might be a solution to providing a self jigging mould for a moulded 1/32 ply or balsa hull. The work involved in photo mounting and cutting out 3mm mdf formers is quite an effort. A quick set of parts in liteply which simply slot together is what I have in mind.
Robert,

there is a contributor here who does CAD drawings. Forget his username but he is a KIWI. And is doing IOM plans in CAD. If he reads this he may offer to help.

Your comments about a "self-jigging mould". Could you please elaborate. I did say I'm starting a new build and have to start this process of mounting shadow prints onto MDF.

Speaking of CAD -- have you seen these new 3D PDF CAD drawings? You can rotate the drawings. I thought it was clever .

Larry
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Old Jan 12, 2010, 03:38 PM
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Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
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Robert -

while not heeled as much as the AC boat, here is a photo of my first (of 5 for family members) RG-65. As the first boat, it was sailed without a deck - but with plastic tape to keep any water from going below. First outing, first sail, and virtually no tuning (I was more interested in assuring sufficient sail arm winch travel at the time) and was quite pleased that on my first attempt, I seem to have hit very close to optimum rig trim for the wind conditions at the time. Just posting for a "disection" of the wake being left going to windward. Virtually no rudder required.

Tape was eventually replaced by 1/64 inch thick balsa sheet.
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by larrykin View Post
Robert,

there is a contributor here who does CAD drawings. Forget his username but he is a KIWI. And is doing IOM plans in CAD. If he reads this he may offer to help.

Your comments about a "self-jigging mould". Could you please elaborate. I did say I'm starting a new build and have to start this process of mounting shadow prints onto MDF.

Speaking of CAD -- have you seen these new 3D PDF CAD drawings? You can rotate the drawings. I thought it was clever .

Larry
The idea is to have the 10 ot so "sections" of the boat slot onto a central keel former plus a couple of full length "buttock" fiormers with half depth slots in each, these 30 finger jointed sections and buttocks will then form a rigid frame mould.
The keel of the boat will be constructed with a Fin box and Rudder tube in place and rested into slots on each of the "sections"
The sections will also have slots for 3mm sq balsa stringers running the full length of the boat onto which diagonal 1/32 mm ply can be glued. The alternative is to strip plank with 3mm sq balsa or use amonia soaked balsa sheets wrapped around the formers. We have used soaked balsa construction on several of our aircraft, very light and very strong.

I simply don't have the patience for CAD, I can see it is a million times better than hand lofting but each system I have tried has something that leaves me reaching for my pencil splines and calculator. 4 hours Adobe illustrator work last night evaporated courtesy of a blue screen of death. Entirely my fault hitting "save as" when you start a project and then hitting save every time you finish a section protects against that but I am not that disciplined, I get into the detail and nothing else exists for a good couple of hours.
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Dick L. View Post
Robert -

while not heeled as much as the AC boat, here is a photo of my first (of 5 for family members) RG-65. As the first boat, it was sailed without a deck - but with plastic tape to keep any water from going below. First outing, first sail, and virtually no tuning (I was more interested in assuring sufficient sail arm winch travel at the time) and was quite pleased that on my first attempt, I seem to have hit very close to optimum rig trim for the wind conditions at the time. Just posting for a "disection" of the wake being left going to windward. Virtually no rudder required.

Tape was eventually replaced by 1/64 inch thick balsa sheet.
This is a loaded question Dick and It is hard to answer without getting into more strife with the IOM guys. I fully expect to see a boiling bum on an IOM. The World Champions reckon its the way to go so it must be right. Robert May contesting that is pointless he doesn't even sail IOM. I don't follow the logic. Deliberate "rudder trimmed" weather helm on starboard tack must become deliberate lee helm on port tack. If the deliberate weather helm is done through sail and boat balance I simply do not understand why any helm would want a boat that is continually seeking to ride up head to wind. The wind backs as much as it does heads so why look for a single wind shift advantage when there are two on offer. One gets you closer to the windward mark in a shorter distance the other offers greater boat speed or the option to tack.

With the very short and recent knowledge of RG65 I supect I wouldn't be able to find a weather helm boiling back end shot of an RG 65. Along with the full size metre rating designs the "freedom" of the rules promote design and understanding and attract a different kind of sailor. At first glance I like the RG-65's, I wonder if there are any over here in the UK.

There is hardly any disturbance of the water at all in your photo Dick but I wonder what would happen if you eased the clew a little and tightened the kicker (vang?) a tad more power from the main might show a different story.(I doubt it) There is a lot of sail washout showing in that photo which might actually be heeling the boat more in those conditions than it ordinarily should. There is lots of flow up top but very little down below.

I can see the family having a lot of fun with your those Dick, what a fantastic day out, big family picnic by the lake with your own fleet of one designs. You could rightly crown a World champion!
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